A line the gun shop guy tried to give me RE: CETME


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jpIII
September 15, 2004, 02:27 PM
This is a paraphrase of a conversation I had this morning with a gun shop owner. I was looking for a Cetme. They had one ($375 with wood stock).

Owner: Do you plan on reloading?
Me: No, I do reload, but I'll probably be sticking to military surplus for the CETME.
Owner: Good, This thing is really bad on brass.
Me: I know, that fluted chamber is really tough on it from what I hear.
Owner: Yeah, they designed it that way so the enemy couldn't use the spent brass.
Me (thinking)::what: (still thinking) I thought it was so that some high pressure gas would be vented around the casing preventing it from getting stuck to the chamber wall.
Me (saying): oh really:rolleyes:

Has anyone else been told this before?

Is this just crazyness on his part, or is there some truth to it?
(I'm pretty sure I already know the answer, but I've been wrong before)

Thanks,
JP

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Ohen Cepel
September 15, 2004, 02:35 PM
It's not the chamber so much as the side of the ejection port.

The brass hits HARD against it and it puts a nice dent in the side of the empty.
That's why you see brass deflectors sold for the HK91's.

Jim K
September 15, 2004, 02:36 PM
I find it a mite difficult to imagine soldiers running around the battlefield picking up fired cases to reload. Even so, the cases can be reloaded; they just might not last for as many reloads as cases fired in conventional chambers.

The story is silly nonsense and you are correct on the reason for the fluted chamber.

Jim

MatthewVanitas
September 15, 2004, 02:39 PM
That conjures up fascinating mental images:

[couple Kalashnikov-bearing overcoated soliders in fuzzy hats take cover in a trench somewhere in the Fulda Gap]

"Look Vladimir! Pristine once-fired Norma 7.62NATO brass! The capitalist dogs will cower before our freshly-reloaded munitions!"


Uuuuura pobyeda!

-MV

Feanaro
September 15, 2004, 02:54 PM
I've never heard that before. The flutes are there to extract the case. No flutes, no extraction except perhaps by luck. Although the flutes in and of themselves won't stop you from reloading, just shorten the life. Cases are often bent in half when they hit the ejection port (but I doubt that is by design). A port buffer is available though, it keeps them from being beat to hell an' back. But the biggest problem a reloader faces is that most commercial brass is thin compared to the NATO style brass the CETME was designed for. This leads to case head seperation. Unfun.

Verdict: a gun store fairy tale. :D

Destructo6
September 15, 2004, 04:03 PM
That's absurd. A country would have to be profoundly desperate to pick up brass from the battlefield, to be reloaded.

All HK-style roller rifles make the same marks: longitudinal ribs from the chamber flutes, dent half way down the case from the back edge of the ejection port, and a crushed case neck from the side of the receiver. Even the SL6/SL7/630/770 do this.

Ask him the purpose for the little clip on the side of a HK wide forearm. If he says anything other than "for the 3-point sling", laugh in his face.

schizrade
September 15, 2004, 04:09 PM
Witness the birth of an urban legend. :)

Texian Pistolero
September 15, 2004, 05:16 PM
Never heard of the enemy salvage to reload argument.

However, in Third World countries, EVERYTHING gets salvaged.

And in Vietnam, the Cong used a whole lot of stuff like discarded batteries, empty c rat cans, etc to improvise a lot of nasty stuff.

The CETME /G3 does really chomp up the brass. However, I raised the point a few years ago on a gun site, and a guy I really respected said he got as many reloads out of the chomped brass as any other.


Also, I think the need for fluting is related to the fact that the CETME/G3 is a delayed roller recoil (my term), rather than gas action, so the extraction is a bit more savage.

fissionproducts
September 15, 2004, 06:22 PM
Beware of "experts" in gunstores. Most of these guys just talk out of their a**.

WhiteKnight
September 15, 2004, 07:30 PM
Vanitas, that cracked me up. :p

Dave R
September 15, 2004, 07:42 PM
It was baloney.

grendelbane
September 15, 2004, 10:10 PM
Seems like military rifles should be fitted with brass catchers if the various armies of the world want to get into reloading.

Of course, those pesky Berdan primers would be a pain.:mad:

I always thought that the really cool thing about the Cetme was that it fired two projectiles at once. It fired the bullet, and the ejected case was usually going fast enough to hurt some one at close range.:D

Wildalaska
September 15, 2004, 10:16 PM
Beware of "experts" in gunstores. Most of these guys just talk out of their a**.

Well I for one work at a gun shop and would be happy to let you test my knowledge of firearms and hunting so that I might prove myself to you.

In that fashion I would become worthy in your eyes as not being one who "talks out of my posterior orifice"

Wildhowabout"expert"customersAlaska

NewShooter78
September 16, 2004, 02:10 PM
Wildhowabout"expert"customersAlaska

I love that one. I work in retail, and I couldn't tell you how many times I've had customers that sound more like the people posters here seem to find working in gun stores. I ususally have good luck with the people behind the counter in gun stores. And if I do catch one with a question they don't know the answer to...they admit they don't know!

El Tejon
September 16, 2004, 02:19 PM
Hmmm, I head it was so you can use 7.62x39mm in the G3.:scrutiny: :D

goon
September 16, 2004, 05:10 PM
Hmmm, I head it was so you can use 7.62x39mm in the G3.

No, you got it backwards.
The 7.62 Nato brass getting banged all to hell weakens the case and then you can shorten it and load it with marbles for use in your SKS. :D
And if you use that out of your AK, it will leave yet another ding in the side of the case. Break the case off there and you got brand new 32 ACP cases.
:D

Now, how's that for some BS?

hksw
September 16, 2004, 05:57 PM
Eh, some people like to make stuff up to solve a puzzle they don't know an answer to. Pretty normal. These are usually good sources for a little humor. After a good laugh, its always good to set them straight (if you think you can).

kimbernut
September 17, 2004, 12:43 PM
Where did you find the gem JFK quote in your signature? Wish his brother and his cronies would think along these lines. Thanks.

dogngun
September 17, 2004, 01:02 PM
After the battle, you form the squad into a line and police up the brass ( and the butts ). Then go to the Corporal to get paint to paint the rocks.

I want to see my face in those boots, boy.

Mark

CaesarI
September 17, 2004, 02:03 PM
On September 14th, I visited 1, and called 4 gunstores on the Front Range, that were listed as CZ dealers on the CZ-USA website, inquiring as to whether or not they had any full capacity magazines for the CZ-75 Compact. The bulk of them replied with variations on the story that they did not have them in yet, and that "LEO/Mil Only" magazines were not available as CZ had not made any for the LE market, since CZ has yet to break into that market. This story was confirmed by the folks on the CZForum.

I had one gunshop employee reply with: "I don't think they can hold more than 10 rounds anyway"
"I know that they do in fact hold 14, as it indicates such on their Czech website." (nevermind that I've been waiting over a year for this purchase)
"I'm not so sure about that, lemme check."

I promptly hung up on him. Based on this, it would appear, that on Colorado's front range anyway, 4/5 gunshop employees are at least reasonably well informed about their product line.

Of course on September 6th, when I had taken a formerly virgin shooter into a gunshop, to perhaps get a feel for a weapon that was more to her size (she has diminutive hands that cannot fit around an H&K P7), the employee insisted, in his very imperious manner that the ban would not sunset, and that if it did, it would be swiftly renewed. He then proceeded direct us to the most expensive line of firerams available.

The truth of the matter is that most gun owners are very poorly educated about firearms, their status as a store employee, or merely a consumer notwithstanding. I blame the bulk of this upon the quality of "gunzines" as well as the shape of Public (Government) Schools.

-Morgan

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