[bad_dad_brad]

This coroner's jury finding of a suicide using a .40 S&W pistol was reported in our local paper today. A tragedy of course, but I did find it surprising that the bullet did not exit the body indicating that the penetrating power of the .40 S&W is lacking. The .40 has always been touted as a better round than the .9mm, but I never believed it. I thought the new caliber was just a way to sell new guns to LEOs. I assume that the person in this story shot themself in the mouth. I removed the person's name, the locations, and the age, in respect for the family.

Self-inflicted gunshot killed I-** driver

A ***** County coroner's jury has ruled that an ******* parole agent -- who crashed a state-owned vehicle on Interstate ** in January -- died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

*******, **, of *********, crashed a van just west of ******* on Interstate ** the evening of Jan. 10. He had transported several prisoners to *****Correctional Center earlier in the day and was returning alone to *******, ***** County Coroner ********* told jurors.

****** Rural Fire Department removed ****** from the van and he was pronounced dead at 8:15 p.m.

No external wounds and no apparent injuries were evident at the scene. However, autopsy results showed a bullet lodged in ******'s brain.

A .40-caliber pistol and cartridge were found in the vehicle.

[Standing Wolf]

A bullet that goes all the way through a body doesn't deliver all its momentum—and can injure, perhaps even kill a bystander.

[Quartus]

Without knowing the angle of entry we can't draw any conclusions about penetration ability. We simply don't know how much tissue was plowed through. We also don't know anything about the construction of the bullet. Was is a light hollow point or heavy FMJ?


Insufficient data for a meaningful answer.

[bad_dad_brad]

Since the person was an LEO I assume it was a JHP. Knowing the State he was in the pistol is most probably a Glock 22. I thought 12" to 18" is considered by the FBI as the minimum penetration for a hangun round.

http://greent.com/40Page/general/fbitest.htm

[cratz2]

I wonder what the circumstances were that precluded an obvious external wound, at least one of them.

Mouth wound? But then I'd really like to think that the 40 would penetrate the first skull hit. :confused:

I have no doubts as to the penetration capabilities of a 165 or 180 Gr FMJ bullet.

[bad_dad_brad]

Yes cratz2, the lack of an exit wound, it is very curious to be sure.

[Quartus]

I assume


If he had shot him himself in the stomach, bending over the weapon, the bullet could have traveled UP through his body, lodging in the head. More than 12-18 inches.



As I said, insufficient data.

[BBall]

"was reported in our local paper today."

Nice jesture but too late. Could have left all the info in for an easier read. Im not quite sure how to pronounce "*" =)

[twoblink]

It depends on the angle.. heavy clothing? Point blank with barrel pressed to the skin? How long of a barrel? How old of a bullet? What type of a bullet??

These and many other questions attribute to the mystery.

[DonGlock26]

Bullets are unpredictible when the leave the barrel,period. I gained new respect for the 9mm FMJ round after I worked a suicide where the bullet went through both sides of a skull(nasty wound). I'm a believer in shot placement and penetration, caliber wars are a joke.

[DTOM]

To take one incident like this and draw total conclusions, as you have done, is absurd. Little data is presented here excepting where the bullet was found.

There's only tons a ballistics studies of all caliber bullets, especially those preferred for self-defense. The studies are there, the data is there and if you take this one example to stamp out all of that data, then enjoy your errors and be happy.

As for me, I have read tons of studies on this issue, both ballistics tests and street data, and I am quite happy with the fact that I own two .40 S&W semiautos. I just pitty the poor sod who might be on the receiving end someday if I have to defend myself.

[Amish]

I've heard of .357Mag not penetrating through the skull as well. It's no suprising since the you got bone and mushy stuff that acts like water at that speed. When you take into consideration that most HP ammo will not penetrate more than 13 inches in gel you can understand why HP donesn't penetrate the body most of the time.

[cratz2]

I was also told of a domestic situation where the perp had an SKS and was hiding in the closet when officers finally went in the house. Shot point blank in the head with a 9mm FMJ round (forget the gun, SIG 229? and never heard the bullet weight) and it literally bounced off! There was some blood, I was told and the guy was knocked out thus resolving the situation but weird things do happen.

[Quartus]

Ohhhh, no! Don't dare suggest that a head shot is anything but instantly fatal! No! That's HERESY!!!!


Had a long, uh, discussion with someone over at TFL about that. Didn't matter when I even wrote to John Farnam about it and posted Farnam's reply. Nope. The SMART gunman always shoots for the head - right through the eye. No center of mass stuff for the REAL experts!


:rolleyes:


I'll bet that guy is STILL telling that story to anyone who'll sit still for 30 seconds! :D


Ooooh! What a headache! :what:

[Peter Gun]

I was just reading an article somewhere (I know, good source quote, take it as you will) discussing the recent trend in forensic medicine dramas and books. Some ME's had chimed in how realistic the bullet performance descriptions were in some stories. In particular, they were noting that dramatic bullet damage was often internal w/ little outside evidence of extensive damage (unlike some hollywood presentations). The brain was noted as particulary good at trapping hollow points because they expand very reliably in that medium, but are easily trapped in the web-like fibers. It was noted that many head shot victims are mistakenly diagnosed by laymen as blunt trauma until the smaller entrance wound is found. Makes sense to me.