I found a neat looking litte CZ 70 in .32 ACP for $200. Looks in like-new condition, but I know nothing about these pistols. I'm mostly concerned with how reliable it is with FMJ european ammo, as I don't put much truck in the Winchester silvertips anymore.
How does it stack up against, say, a French-made Walther PP? A Colt 1903?
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September 16, 2004, 02:57 PM
Mine has been 100% reliable with S&B, and my reloads. It is a little heavy for such a small caliber, but I have been very satisfied with it.
September 16, 2004, 05:41 PM
The CZ 50 and CZ 70 are pretty much the same gun, with the 70 having some minor mods and (I understand) better metallurgy.
Great guns for the money. My CZ-50 was pretty darned accurate -- more so than the similar Walther PP and PPK that some friends had (and which cost much, much more).
But mags can be a problem and the slides on the 50 are sometimes soft. (The softness shows up as erosion on the underside of the slide where it cocks the hammer as it moves back.) This shouldn't be a problem with the 70.
Personally, I'd rather shoot 9mm for plinking -- as its cheaper. And for self-defense, I think .32 acp is used only as a last resort. And in that case I'd be carrying a Kel-Tec P-32. If I was going to spend almost $200 on a .32 acp, it would be on the Kel-Tec.
Craig M. Arnold
September 16, 2004, 06:13 PM
My son had a CZ70 and it was a very solid little pistol. It was very accurate and reliable. Due to the caliber and weight, it generated almost no recoil. However, my son bought his CZ70 for under $100.00. So I have to agree with Walt, if I were going to spend $200.00 on a 32acp, it would be a Kel-Tec, assuming that you are going to carry it. If you just want a range gun there are several great guns available for around $200.00 that shoot more powerful and less expensive ammo.
September 16, 2004, 06:24 PM
I have seen two that would misfire frequently on the first, DA shot. The hammer throw in DA is much shorter than the cocked position for SA.
I have seen two others with almost unpullable DA, maybe they tried to remedy the misfires with a very strong mainspring.
Nice milled steel and all that, but an obsolete, ineffective design.
Nowhere close to a Colt.
I have no real experience with PP .32s but have seen some good .380s.
September 16, 2004, 07:45 PM
Well, my trigger pull in DA is a little hard, but not anywhere as much as a J frame S&W that a friend of mine has. Also, I paid the grand total of $80.00 for the CZ 70 (last year from Southern Ohio Guns), so I don't have a great deal invested in it. I have had no problem with mags, and it feeds S&B flawlessly.
September 18, 2004, 09:46 AM
I got one a little over a year ago for about $100. Mine is one of the ones with the "unpullable" DA triggers. Its even difficult to pull using two fingers!
SA the trigger is pretty good though. I tried clipping the spring, but it did no good and I replaced it and figured I'll just use it in SA mode. Its a well made, good shooting little pistol, but is a little heavy as was mentioned. I replaced the 70 grips with 50 grips as I like the look and feel better. I also removed the little spring that holds the mag in the gun when the release is pushed and now it will drop free.(this was a by product of trimming the spring for the trigger and it fell out at the time. :) ) Mine came with one mag and the gun would not function with more than a couple of rounds in it. I found a "fix" for it on the CZ board and filed a small half moon notch in the front of the mag, which seemed to help a little, but replacing the spring with one from Wolff did the trick and its been fine since. I also got two more mags from Marstar of Canada. They claimed to be new, but looked more used to me, and I did the half moon thing to them both and replaced the springs in them too.(they come three to a pack from Wolff) Nice little gun, but I dont think I'd spend $200 for it unless it had a nice DA trigger and I was sure the mags were good, otherwise your going to be fiddling with it.
September 18, 2004, 01:06 PM
I bought a CZ-70 at a gunshow for about $120 a few years ago. It was fairly worn, but shot great and still does (I GunKoted it silver since then but never tried to improve it mechanically). It's very acurate and 100% reliable. I've shot mostly S&B FMJ through it, but some Fiocci HP and Dynamit Nobel FMJ also.
A lot of folks complain about the triggers on these. I own this CZ-70, A .32 Walther(Manhurin) PP, a .22 Walther(Manhurin) PP, an East German Mak and have shot my Dad's CZ-50 a bit. Comparing all these guns, they all shoot accurately and reliably so none of them has an edge there. IMO, all the guns of this type have horrible DA triggers. If you cock the hammer for the first shot, the SA triggers are not bad at all and that's the way I always shoot them. In fact, the CZ-70(and CZ-50) allows you to cock the hammer and lock the safety, so it's the only one that can be carried "cocked and locked". You can alternatively decock them by pushing the safety lever all the way down past safe (like a CZ-52 except that they can be fired when decocked) The Maks and Walthers will automatically decock to DA mode when the safety is engaged. The Walthers and the CZs have about the same SA trigger feel. The E.G. Mak has a slightly smoother trigger in both SA and DA modes, but not by a great amount.
For what I paid for these guns ($300 for the Mak, almost $250 for the .32 PP and over $300 for the .22 PP), the CZ is definately the best gun of the bunch for the money.
BTW: Like AK103K stated, I believe that the (very minor) CZ-50/70 mag problem that Walt alluded to is caused by the mags having a slightly high front wall. It catches on the .32ACP's rim every once in a while while chambering. It's easily fixed in seconds by just filing or dremeling a semi circle notch just a little bit bigger than the round's diameter in the top front edge of the mag. I've done it to all my mags just as a precaution, but never experienced the problem myself.
The CZ-50 I had didn't allow "Cocked and Locked." I wonder why your 70 is different?
That was one of the other disadvantages of its used as a concealed carry weapon (along with its weight and weak round.)
September 18, 2004, 09:28 PM
The CZ-50 I had didn't allow "Cocked and Locked." I wonder why your 70 is different? Hmm. I wonder if that's one of the changes made in the CZ-70. I'll have to check on my Dad's '50 next time I get a chance.
On my '70 (made in 1981), I can rack the slide or manually cock the hammer and snick the safety down one notch to safe with the hammer still cocked. If I push the safety lever down past that, it will decock the hammer and the safety springs back up to safe. I'm really surprised that the CZ-50 doesn't work like that.
December 18, 2004, 11:22 PM
I finally got one of the CZ-50's, but this one was $135 not $200. I've been without a mouse gun since I sold off my Walther PP, and I've been missing it. The round, esp. in these big steel frames, isn't too noisy and you can cap off a round now and then without going deaf. Also, the controlled rate of fire is awesome and to some extent makes up for the weakness of the round. Lots of times I'll see something that needs shooting, but I have no earplugs and the revolver is loaded with powerhouse .357.
December 18, 2004, 11:32 PM
While its not as loud as some larger caliber guns, you might want to reconsider your practice of shooting without hearing protection. While it may not HURT, its probably doing damage -- damage that you'll not really notice for a number of years.
December 19, 2004, 03:02 AM
I bought my CZ-70 for $70-80 as a C&R. When it arrived I was tempted to buy another right away and then buy a CZ-50 for variety but one is enough as it seems to be indestructible. Its a utilitarian and rugged variant of the Walther PP and a well regarded part of the Com-Bloc arsenal. DA is heavy, but easily managed with one finger, about like my P-38. The stress of self defense would make it unnoticible. SA is pretty good for a military pistol but not as sweet as my Colt 1903. At pistol distances I shoot it quite well DA from the hip and SA for focused accuracy, whether one or two handed.
My mag pops out as-is, no need to remove that mag catch spring you mentioned to get drop-free action. I don't recall any hangups feeding but if I do I'll relieve the front edge of the mag for more clearance, great tip, thank you! .32 ammo, when I buy it, costs about the same as the 9mms, whether 9x17 Kurz, 9x18 Mak or 9x19 Para. The big plus is .32 is sweet to shoot for practice while the others all kick a lot more. The majority of my C&R are .32, why not shoot it a lot? It was the most popular caliber for so long that it has historical appeal going for it, too. Boggie probably used a .32 to shoot Colonel Strasser in Casablanca and James Bond used .32's for most of his fictional career. Hey, I'm a dyed in the wool romantic!
If I were going to spend $200 on a .32 it would be another C&R Mauser, Walther, MAB, Savage, Unique, Beretta, Browning, Ortgies, etc. So many wonderful choices in the price range and you get world history with the purchase not just the latest hyped product. There is no end to the latest and greatest, buy a gun rag every month and you'll see what I mean. But then, I'm a collector with an insatiable future wishlist while my latest and greatest self defense needs were satisfied long ago. ;-)
Herb Fredricksen, fan of pocket and vest pocket C&R.
December 19, 2004, 10:26 AM
I wouldn't pay more than $110 for a CZ50 or CZ70 in my local area, assuming that a case of .32ACP fell from the sky onto my front portch. I've passed up to many for < $100.
December 19, 2004, 11:09 AM
I loved my little CZ70. It was a BUG for a long time on the truck, as .32 ain't much of a round, but it beats harsh language! Mine fed JHP all day long, and shot extremely well. It had a long trigger pull, but I mastered it, and would love to eventually buy another one. All the features it has usuall are found only on far more expensive guns - C&L plus decocker, loaded chamber indicator, DA/SA, 1911 placed mag release, solid steel, not pot metal, etc. Good little guns!
December 19, 2004, 04:31 PM
I bought mine from a local shop for $95 in near-excellent condition with a spare magazine a couple of years ago. It's fed everything from CCI Blazer ball to Speer Gold Dots so far without a bobble.
A trifle large for a true pocket gun perhaps, but pretty nicely made and finished. DA trigger isn't too spiffy, but it's useable. SA has a little creep, but breaks at just over 3 1/2 #. The sights are tiny and hard for my middle-aged eyes to get a good fix on, but I can still bounce a can around at 20 yds or so when I hold it right.
$200 sounds a bit steep to me, but your area may have more demand for them than around here. If you look around at a couple of shows, you can likely pick one up for substantially less in comparable condition.
December 20, 2004, 12:58 AM
Keep in mind this is Alaska. $135 for a handgun is as cheap as I've ever seen here. It translates to about $80 in lower 48 dollars. The postal ban on handguns and the need to ship them either by slow boat in bulk or fedex/UPS air adds $$$ to any short gun in these parts.
I capped off a few mags full this evening and loved it. The DA pull isn't any worse than a typical DA/SA pistol. And unlike my old Walther PP it ate everything with no complaints. Accuracy was just fine. Should make a nice backup piece.
December 20, 2004, 05:48 AM
I have 2 and really like them. One I got at a show with holster and extra mag for $125, about 4 yrs ago. The other I got from a local shop for $60 about the same time. The double action pull is terrible, I clipped a couple of coils off of the hammer spring ( I believe it was that spring-- it was right after I bought them) anyway, that did help the pull a pretty good bit.
December 20, 2004, 08:27 AM
"...The postal ban on handguns and the need to ship them either by slow boat in bulk or fedex/UPS air adds $$$ to any short gun in these parts."The same holds true for guns sold in the other parts of the US, as well. I don't see why its different in Alaska.
Dealers can still use the postal service for their transfers. Shipping by slow boat is very inexpensive, and while FedEx or UPS air might be more -- its more because of the distance. I shipped a gun by UPS the other day, through my FFL(?) to an address two states away, and it cost me $45!! I nearly choked.
December 20, 2004, 05:54 PM
Because in other parts of the country handguns are also driven from state to state all the time, and can also be trucked in by common carrier by dealers. Because of Canada, the supply here must come entirely from bulk shipments over the water or individual air express packages.
December 20, 2004, 08:12 PM
Interstate private transfers in the lower 48 (if not the lower 49) must also go by air, as FedEx and UPS require AIR transfer. I don't know of any legal exceptions -- an FFL has got to be involved at the receiving end.
Private indivdiuals, as far as I know, can't use a common carrier (except UPS and FedEx, which have tariffs which allow the transfer of guns) -- and most dealers use the US Postal Service or UPS or FedEx (with most seemingly using UPS, because of sweetheart deals.)
Heck, I'm not even sure that dealers can use common carriers other than FedEx or UPS. (I'm not saying they can't -- but just that I have NEVER seen any carrier but UPS or FedEx delivering guns to or from dealers.)
December 20, 2004, 08:41 PM
You still have Joe Schmo with his collection driving from Virginia to North Carolina, then later selling them. At any rate Alaska gun inflation is a fact of life, esp. for handguns. You can figure a hike of ten to twenty percent over the price in the lower 48.
December 20, 2004, 09:08 PM
As I understand it, and I'm pretty sure this is correct...
If Joe Schmo is a collector going to another state, has a (curio & relic) FFL, and sells a C&R gun to another (C&R) collector, he's okay.
If he sells ANY gun to a dealer, he's okay.
But if he sells to a private citizen without an FFL involved in the transfer, he could be in a lot of trouble. Let him hope the ATF doesn't find out about it, or local state law officers.
Interstate transfers of weapons requires an FFL. Intra-state transfers (of most guns, anyhow) are controlled by state law.
(But with regard to higher prices --I feel your pain. I spent some time in Alaska long ago, and remember that prices were higher then, too -- before the oil boom -- as stuff came up the AlCan, by plane, or by ship... I spent some time on a little island in the Aleutians, and supplies generally came in by barge, twice a year...)
December 21, 2004, 01:35 PM
My CZ-50 jams every now and then, too. Very anoying... I hardly shoot it anymore, came close to trading it away. I couldnt bring myself to do that and hung on to it. Even with this problem, I like this pistol! Ill try filing the mags and see if it clears it up.
December 21, 2004, 02:06 PM
And, shipping handguns by air is not in the law at all. This is a ploy by the big carriers to make more money. The excuse is that their employees are not trustworthy to keep from stealing handguns and thus they have to be shipped via air (I suppose that means fewer employees touching it). A fine excuse that tells us all that shipping employees are crooks. I don't believe that, but according to UPS they are. Yet, by focusing handguns into a smaller shipping pool, the chances of them being discovered increase as well. Thus, it's a wash. Fewer people touching them, but as handguns aren't shipped ground, there's a smaller search area as well.
And, this garbage about shipping handguns by air is only a recent phenomena, as in the last 5 years or so. When I had my C&R, shipping and recieving handguns was cheaper than long guns for obvious reasons. The last year of my C&R saw the change in the rules by the companies. This was not a change in law, mind you, just how the companies operate. It is pure BS.
December 21, 2004, 02:16 PM
But you know, looking at the post above demonstrates that the CZ-50 is really nothing like the Walther PP (even though many call it a copy). The lines aren't the same but only similar in the very vaguest of ways, the safety, slide contours, frame contours, and take down are different. Heck, they are similar only in the fact that they are blow-back, double action single stack pistols. The SIG 230 and the CZ-50 have more in common than either with a PP. Was the CZ-50 created in a vacuum? Probably not. Indeed, the designers most certainly had encountered PP's and perhaps even liked the concept. Yet they are really very different pistols, appart from the most general similarities.
December 21, 2004, 02:20 PM
There's no ground shipment to Alaska for handguns, because of Canada. But otherwise I believe you are correct. There is no law forcing people to use UPS or FedEx, only a law forbidding handguns via the USPS. The requirment of air shipment is a recent policy change by the shippers acting on their own, though it's always been the case up here.
December 21, 2004, 02:22 PM
After shooting some more Mozambique drills with the CZ-50 I have to say I'm liking it more than the PP. It is quite different, as you point out. If anything it's slightly larger. And mine at least feed much better than the PP ever did. No jams at all after several boxes.
December 21, 2004, 03:21 PM
Supposedly, the CZ-50 was based loosely on the Walther PP design, but with changes made to make production easier. (It wa the WWII Soviet mentality; with it came to weapons of war, they often got it right.)
As I may have noted, when compared to a friends Walther PPK in .32 acp, which cost 4 times more than did my CZ-50, it was a great value. Mine outshot his, consistently.
December 21, 2004, 07:27 PM
Browns Fan: re CZ-50 and CZ-70 Jams.
These guns are notorious for being picky about magazines, and there's a fix shown on various forum (and, I think, on the CZ forum) that will solve the problem. Or just buy a new mag from CDNN. Get the mags right and the jams tend to go away.
December 21, 2004, 07:41 PM
I think the cheap, quick fix for the mags is the Wolff replacement springs, and the little half moon trick too. I did the half moon thing first, but still had troubles. Things were a little better, but still had troubles. Troubles all seemed to go away with the new springs.
December 21, 2004, 09:22 PM
I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that these CZ's and Walther PP's used to be the main duty sidearms for European police forces. I think they're great little plinkers and backup pieces (if you get a reliable one), but police sidearms? I wonder if the cops there made a point of carrying subguns as well or something.
December 22, 2004, 03:57 PM
Back when these guns were primariy police weapons, there wasn't that much violence in the streets, etc. Nowadays, hardly anybody uses a .32.
In the Communist Bloc militaries, the .32 was often carried by NCOs and officers, but the Army/ground force NCOs typically had a long-gun or sub-machine gun, too. In some respects, these little guns were like a "badge" of rank. In some respects, they were most likely a weapon of last resort in combat situations.
December 26, 2004, 10:56 PM
Cleaned my CZ 50 up and put a few more boxes through it. Not one misfire or jam, which places it well above my old PP. Accuracy was excellent and the controlled rate of fire extraordinary. The slide has a neat color to it, too. It's now my official pocket pistol. I'm not reluctant to use this as my backup CCW piece. Even with the wee .32 FMJ's, two in the heart and one in the head should work fine.
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