Always check Your chamber!


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JimJD
September 16, 2004, 11:05 PM
This is some sad stuff...
The whole thing could have been avoided. :(


NY1 News- Rookie Cop shoots friend (http://www.ny1.com/ny/TopStories/SubTopic/index.html?topicintid=1&subtopicintid=1&contentintid=43335)


Rookie Cop Allegedly Shoots Friend In Tragic Accident

SEPTEMBER 16TH, 2004

A deadly shooting in Brooklyn involving a rookie city police officer appears to have been an accident.

Police believe the off-duty officer's gun went off accidentally as he was cleaning it at an apartment in Dyker Heights on Wednesday night, killing his best friend, 25-year-old George Perez.

Perez, who is from New Jersey, was shot in the face. He was rushed to Victory Memorial Hospital, where he died some 30 minutes later.

Sources say the officer involved is a rookie in the 75th Precinct in East New York.

The off-duty officer was taken to a local hospital and treated for trauma. Residents who saw the commotion outside say the officer was devastated.

“He looked like he was shook up and really nervous, which I can understand,” said a neighbor. “I don’t know how I would react if I accidentally did something like that.”

"People say he was really distraught," said another area resident. "It was so bad that he fell in the street, running down the stairs looking for help for his best friend, I understand it was. It's a shame; it's really a terrible thing."

Long-time residents and workers in the bustling working class neighborhood say Dyker Heights is a quiet area.

"I'm very surprised to hear something like this happened," said another area resident. "I'm sure it was an accident because very nice people live in this whole area here. We never have problems like that. I'm sure this was an accident, but things happen, you know?"

There are reports that prior to the shooting, the officer had emptied the gun, but forgot to check to see whether the chamber was empty.

The incident is still under investigation. So far, no charges have been filed against the officer.

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Third_Rail
September 16, 2004, 11:11 PM
Oh man... :(


That seriously is just a horrible thing to have happen. :( :(

jsalcedo
September 16, 2004, 11:17 PM
Why was it pointed at the guys face?

Gunpacker
September 16, 2004, 11:17 PM
"Cleaning his gun."
Yeah, right.

El Tejon
September 16, 2004, 11:25 PM
Gunpacker, I can see negligence here. Don't forget the culture from which NYPD gets their recruits. Police academy is the first time 99% of them touch a firearm.

If only he had been taught the Four Rules from birth. They are life and could have saved a life here.:(

Sergeant Sabre
September 16, 2004, 11:51 PM
A tragic occurance...

I hate how stuff like this is portrayed:

Police believe the off-duty officer's gun went off accidentally as he was cleaning it

So, what you mean to say is that the off-duty officer pointed a loaded weapon at his friend and then pulled the trigger? I think that's more accureate. Tragic as it is, I hate how media outlets obsolve the individual of responsibility and place it on that evil firearm. Let's place the blame where it lies: with the officer.

Standing Wolf
September 16, 2004, 11:53 PM
See? That proves it: only cops are qualified to keep and bear arms.

sendec
September 17, 2004, 12:11 AM
Thank you Mr. Wolf, for living up to my lowest expectations.

Old Dog
September 17, 2004, 12:17 AM
Our cause is not helped by smart-ass remarks.
And yes, when will we ever stop hearing "the gun went off accidently?"

mete
September 17, 2004, 12:19 AM
Went off accidentally ?? nonsense, they call it a negligent discharge for good reason 1-didn't clear the chamber, 2-didn't point the gun in a safe direction, 3- pulled the trigger .

Larry Ashcraft
September 17, 2004, 12:19 AM
THREE of the four rules violated, bad things are bound to happen.
Thank you Mr. Wolf, for living up to my lowest expectations.
Thanks for taking the high road. :barf:

Amish_Bill
September 17, 2004, 12:39 AM
"I'm sure it was an accident because very nice people live in this whole area here...."

Oh... so bad things can only happen in 'less desireable' areas of town?

Probably a combination of insufficient training and candidates that don't take the hardware seriously enough. Too bad... Killing a buddy by your own incompetence is not something to wish on anybody.

gaston_45
September 17, 2004, 12:56 AM
Sendec, we are told over and over that the police are more qualified to handle weapons then the rest of the citizens. Standing Wolf was merely pointing out that the police are no different then anyone else and as such should be treated the same.

I am sorry that the expectation of equality offends you and is the least you expect. Personally, equality is my highest expectation, as it should be for anyone in this country living by the constitution. Was he stupid, negligent, and incompetent? Yes. Would an "ordinary" citizen get away with the excuse that they were cleaning it and it just went off into the face of the other person? I highly doubt it.

As George Orwell wrote, "All animals are equal, some are just more equal". That is not a situation we need in this country and I, personally, am glad that there are people like Standing Wolf that are unafraid of standing up to this mentality. I am sorry that your sacred ox has been gored once again but that is no reason to attack Standing Wolf.

GigaBuist
September 17, 2004, 01:05 AM
This is what happens when young boys are never taught firearm safety from their own family.

Police chiefs bark at a 23 year old recruit.

A dad'll smack the kid upside the head when he's 8.

Old Dog
September 17, 2004, 01:15 AM
Geez. I re-read the original news story. Nowhere in it is the implication that the shooting was absolvable solely because the shooter was a police officer. In fact, the story read much the same as too many stories that I've read in the past about "accidental" shootings. Was the shooting negligent? Yes. Was it avoidable? Yes. Does the fact that a cop was responsible somehow make it more palatable than if an ordinary citizen was responsible for that death? No. Does the news story imply that? No.

Gaston-45, please ... dismount your high horse. Sendec was correct. Sarcasm in response to the tragic, avoidable death of another human is NOT taking the high road.

DevilDog
September 17, 2004, 02:07 AM
That is very tragic.

A real life example why there are FOUR rules.

The_Antibubba
September 17, 2004, 03:17 AM
Geez. I re-read the original news story. Nowhere in it is the implication that the shooting was absolvable because the shooter is a police officer.


Look again.


So far, no charges have been filed against the officer.

I'm also sure he didn't spend any time in a holding cell, wasn't deloused, and wasn't tested for substance abuse. He probably won't be charged, and if he is, the Police union will rally around him. That's not the New York that most citizens are familiar with.

Indeed, some ARE more equal than others.

SMLE
September 17, 2004, 05:15 AM
While I DO feel sorry for the guy who now has to live with killing his friend, and even more sorry for the friend's family, I have to say that Standing Wolf's comment was right on the money.See? That proves it: only cops are qualified to keep and bear arms.
The antis are always saying that "average" citizens aren't smart enough to be trusted with guns.

SAG0282
September 17, 2004, 05:19 AM
An unmitigated tragedy all around.....that man will likely never be the same, and of course the other one is dead.

:(

Tharg
September 17, 2004, 05:48 AM
Hey - i'm betting Wolf's comment came off the cuff...

and i'm also betting he(she?) prolly feels the remorse just about all of us that are human feel.... the "damn... thats horrible"

I'm also betting thats when it kicked in that we ARE being fed this (police/law enforcement/military) are the only one's capable of keeping and using firearms responsibly.

I wouldn't have believed some of the rat-trap if i hadn't been reading over 25 pages of posts on the kerry forums.... (on one topic!)

Its a commentary of the times - and because he didn't hitch it up w/ PC rhetoric before he declared his thoughts, doesn't make it any less "the high road"

The high road - as defined by http://thefreedictionary.com is a noun... to mean "the most ethical and honest method"

I'm guessing it fits his ethics and felt it was pretty honest. How it fits in to this tradgedy, be it intended or not, doesn't fit w/in the context of his post. Thus if ya are gonna hang him - tell him he should have created a new topic for his thoughts.

of course - having said all that - i was taught at a very VERY young age about the four rules. Not to say that its not possible for me to break them - its entirely possible if i'm not vigilant, but saying it was more than likely more ingrained in me than it was in a NY City rookie just been through cop boot-camp whatever training camp's mind is very possible.

AND as always ... on thehighroad.org i might also remind that the full details are not out about this story, as usual :) . Could be that it was his first day out of "boot camp" or whatever, and he was showing off his new "i'm a cop and can carry a gun in NYC" badge. Guys are guys - even the less precocious ones. Could have been any number of things - no matter how ya look at it - presuming it was an accident (i know there is no Accident, interject ignorance/disrespect for safety if you will, but i doubt he truely wanted to shoot his friend w/ what i read here) - it will haunt him for the rest of his life. :(

J/Tharg!

MP5
September 17, 2004, 08:10 AM
If only he had been taught the Four Rules from birth.

You really only need to learn them properly once, listen carefully, memorize them, and then take them seriously all the time.

Carlos Cabeza
September 17, 2004, 11:31 AM
From Gigabuist:

A dad'll smack the kid upside the head when he's 8.

Makes a much more lasting impression IMO. A kid looks up to his dad.
A 25 year old rookie cop has a totally different attitude.

mhdishere
September 17, 2004, 12:12 PM
Not growing up around guns isn't an excuse, in my opinion. I got into shooting as an adult, and I obey the four rules. Guys I shot with actually considered me anal about safety, I'd take my gun out of the locked box and check the cylinder, this after checking it before I put it away last time and locked the box.

I learned early on that a gun is not a toy, and that it only takes a split-second lapse in attention to kill yourself or someone else. That's why we have four rules, you could violate any one of them and not hurt anyone (although you might put a round in the floor). You have to violate at least two of them to actually hurt someone. The first thing I'd do if someone offered to let me shoot an unfamiliar gun is learn how to make it safe (i.e. unload it and lock it open).

shermacman
September 17, 2004, 12:50 PM
What part of cleaning a gun involves pointing it at your friend's face and pulling the trigger? Doesn't sound like an accident to me.

Fred Fuller
September 17, 2004, 01:14 PM
"Police believe the off-duty officer's gun went off accidentally as he was cleaning it..."

Went off accidentally. Must have been a Glock, then. Those seem to always go off accidentally when somone pulls the trigger somehow.

Still, it's a shame for all involved...

lpl/nc

GD
September 17, 2004, 06:05 PM
A number of years ago a semiautomatic handgun got passed around at a party in Wichita. One of the kids ask "Is this thing loaded?" to which the owner answered "No, I took the magazine out". The kid then pointed the pistol at another kid and pulled the trigger. Yep, there was a round in the chamber. I talked to the father of the shot kid (a local doctor who happened to be in the emergency room when his son came in!) and he told me that none of the kids knew anything about semiautomatics. These kids by the way were mostly high achieving high school students. The fact is we have a responsibility to tell our children about firearms whether we think they will own one or not. Rookie police officers in Brooklyn? What makes me think he probably never grew up with firearms? This is probably another case of ignorance bred by lack of true education. Reading, writing, and arithmetic aren't enough.

mete
September 17, 2004, 09:56 PM
Most cops never handle guns before they become cops. The NYPD spends more time teaching political correctness. The last statistics I saw [2002 IIRC] showed that in actual gunfights the NYPD cops hit their target only 10 % of the time !! When they used revolvers it was 20%. Neither is acceptable.

Little Loudmouth
September 17, 2004, 10:30 PM
The High Road, sendec. The High Road.

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