Motorist shot and killed in road rage incident


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SkunkApe
September 17, 2004, 10:06 AM
Motorist shot and killed in road rage incident, police say

September 16, 2004, 5:14 AM

DETROIT (AP) -- An angry motorist was shot and killed by an off-duty state corrections officer in what police called a road rage incident.

The shooting occurred Wednesday after the motorist attacked the corrections officer's pickup truck and then went after the officer with a seven-iron golf club, Detroit Police Insp. Bill Rice told The Detroit News for a Thursday story.

Rice identified the dead man as Paul Anderson, 36, of Detroit.

The incident began after the pickup pulled off Michigan 10 onto a service drive, Rice said.

Anderson pulled his car up behind the pickup and began honking the horn and yelling at the driver of the truck to stop, police said.

The driver, a 39-year-old Detroit man, pulled over. At that point, Anderson jumped out of his car with a golf club and started beating on the pickup truck, Rice said.

Two women in Anderson's car also grabbed a steel steering column locking device from the car and started beating on the pickup truck while the corrections officer remained inside.

Anderson broke the pickup's passenger side window with the golf club. He then hit the driver of the car on the arm with the golf club and attempted to pull him out of the pickup, Rice said.

The corrections officer pulled out his state issued handgun and fired one shot, striking Anderson in the head, killing him, Rice said.

The corrections officer was questioned and released pending investigation.

http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw104266_20040916.htm

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R.H. Lee
September 17, 2004, 10:15 AM
Motorist shot and killed in road rage incident That's a misleading headline. It should say "Motorist defends himself against berserk attacker". You see how the headline demonizes firearms? It is though some innocent was shot and killed because of the "easy availability" of a gun. This was really a life saved because the intended victim was armed. It will no doubt be incorporated into Brady/VPC statistics as another case of "gun violence" without noting that "golfclub violence" was thereby prevented.

critter
September 17, 2004, 10:19 AM
A case of terminal stupidity. Hope he didn't reproduce yet.

PAshooter
September 17, 2004, 10:23 AM
I concur RileyMc:

How 'bout "Armed Citizen Successfully Defends Self Against Crazed Lunatic"

I know... it was an off-duty LEO, but still...

You gotta love the press. The headline leads you to believe that some motorist went nuts and shot someone.

Lone Star
September 17, 2004, 10:34 AM
The news today says that a motorist was shot dead on Stemmons Freeway this AM in Dallas, probably due to road rage. No suspect as yet, but traffic is backed up something AWFUL as police investigate.

This stuff happens. Whoever is to blame, though, the media will indeed blame guns.

Lone Star

JPL
September 17, 2004, 10:58 AM
How can the media blame guns in this one?

It was an agent of the state doing the shooting.

The media should love that.

ID_shooting
September 17, 2004, 11:51 AM
I have been in the recieveing end of a RR incedent. I was armed even, I stopped, the guy got out with a tire iron. I waited for him to get close and just drove off. By the time he got back in his car, I was too far gone for him to catch up.

Granted we do not know the whole story, but shooting should be last resort. If the BG gets out of his car, especially with anythig but a gun, you have an easy escape route. Just drive off.

From what we have here, I am going to call "bad shoot." IMHO

Wayne D
September 17, 2004, 12:00 PM
That's a misleading headline. It should say "Motorist defends himself against berserk attacker". You see how the headline demonizes firearms? It is though some innocent was shot and killed because of the "easy availability" of a gun. This was really a life saved because the intended victim was armed. It will no doubt be incorporated into Brady/VPC statistics as another case of "gun violence" without noting that "golfclub violence" was thereby prevented.


I'm surprised they didn't print "Golfer killed by Gunman"

gbelleh
September 17, 2004, 12:06 PM
I'd also like to know why the guy didn't just drive off. If someone was beating my car with a golf club I'd peel out of there as fast as possible.

Leatherneck
September 17, 2004, 12:12 PM
and then went after the officer with a seven-iron golf club,
Use enough club. :D

Seriously, this would be completely different if it was a citizen with a CCW, IMO. It does not sound like a legitimate shoot from the facts given. :scrutiny:

TC
TFL Survivor

rick_reno
September 17, 2004, 12:14 PM
Sounds like Mr. Anderson simply wanted to play thru - hopefully he'll have better manners when he gets to that big fairway in the sky. ;)

Mute
September 17, 2004, 12:14 PM
Perhaps the attacker was standing in front of the car, so driving off still would have resulted in dead idiot. It's hard to judge situation like this based on second-hand information. But if the guy got through the exterior of the car and landed a blow I'd have to say any kind of defensive response (shooting in head, hit jerk with your car) would have been justified.

Dave R
September 17, 2004, 12:26 PM
From the info provided, it looks like a good shoot. The shooter had ample reason to fear for his life if they're soming the truck and landing blows with golf clubs. Don't know about his ability to retreat.

But the media will blame the gun and not the crazy guy with the club.

DigMe
September 17, 2004, 01:10 PM
To me the headline makes it sound like the guy with the gun was the one who was in a rage when he was the one being raged on.

brad cook

Devonai
September 17, 2004, 01:24 PM
Why did the correctional officer stop? Was it related to the jerk in the car? If so, this was a questionable shoot. If the CO knew that the guy in the car wanted a piece of him, he should have called the cops or driven to the nearest police station.

The CO apparently did not do everything he could to avoid using lethal force. Even when the other parties were wailing on his pickup he could have pulled away. Perhaps doing so would have injured his attackers, but so does shooting them in the head.

Despite all of this, if the CO honestly thought that he couldn't retreat, the use of force is justified. Screwing up part A of a road rage incident does not mean you should let yourself get injured or killed if part B then goes down.

Gameface
September 17, 2004, 03:01 PM
I can imagine circumstances where there may have been a slight automobile accident and they were pulling over to resolve it/ exchange info and the guy goes ballistic before the CO knows what is going on. It generally isn’t wise to pull over in a road rage incident, but if you aren’t aware that the other guy has already become road rageous then you might think that something else is going on until it’s too late. I agree that making the mistake of pulling over BEFORE the other guy has become hostile does not exclude you from defending yourself once he begins his attack.

Gameface

erik the bold
September 17, 2004, 03:51 PM
Here's the link to the original story. It was in the Detroit Snooze
http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0409/16/b01-275201.htm

Firethorn
September 17, 2004, 03:56 PM
I don't claim to have first hand knowledge, but there are a number of questions to ask.
[list=1]
Why'd he stop? Of course, I'd probably stop too. Who knows, there might be something drastically wrong with my car and the driver wants to let me know.
Why didn’t he drive away at the first whack? It also mentions the two women were using a club type product to beat up the truck, so maybe he was boxed in. It could have also happened too fast. (He’s got a club ***?, he’s hitting my truck!, he’s busted my window and is trying to drag me out! Blam!)
What caused the “road rage” in the man, or was he (and the women) pissed off at the officer for a more personal reason?
[/list=1]

carpettbaggerr
September 17, 2004, 04:41 PM
And even if the golfer was in a blind rage, don't you think he'd stop when a gun is pointed at his face? OTOH, we're probably better off with him underground -- he'd probably tee off on some unarmed little old lady next.

Ironbarr
September 17, 2004, 05:15 PM
"Fore!"

"OW!"

"Fore!", "Fore!", "Fore!"
" " "
"OW!", "OW!", "OW!"
" " "

BAM.


Aren't "service roads" controlled by signs/lights/pavement makers? Ours have SLO/STOP/Yield signs. Then there's other vehicles. Anything could bring him to a stop - including the possibility of the aforementioned Good Samaritan.

As for the head shot to effect the stop - I guess I'd had to been there. With that club in the air, I'd probably have my arm up to deflect - and where that muzzle pointed would probably been "very variable".

I'd say it'd be hard to get a controlled "stop but don't kill" shot with that club working.

Probably to be called a clean shoot.

-Andy

Blackcloud6
September 17, 2004, 06:25 PM
Ahh the Metro Detroit commute. i do it everyday! :o

magsnubby
September 17, 2004, 07:40 PM
I'll reserve judgement untill all the facts are released.

A couple of years ago in Madera ,Ca. (not to far from Fresno) an off duty cop shot and killed a home invader. The cop was at his father's house when the door bell rang. When the home owner answered the door the bg forced his way into the house. The home owners son shot the bg. I can't remember all the details but it was ruled justifiable. The lead in for the nightly news was :

"OFF DUTY COP GUNS DOWN MAN"

Declaration Day
September 17, 2004, 07:44 PM
I won't pass judgment on the shooter, because I wasn't there to see what happened. Perhaps he could have driven away, perhaps he couldn't because he was blocked in. In any case, I wish him the best of luck in this unfortunate situation.

All I can say for certain is that one more scumbag is six feet under, where he can never harm anyone again. Score one for the good guys.

Standing Wolf
September 17, 2004, 09:52 PM
Never show up for a gun fight with a golf club in hand: it's simply not the done thing.

SASS#23149
September 17, 2004, 11:11 PM
One less jerk to worry about having behind me or the wife on the highways.No matter what the reason you don't go after someone in their car or home.They will defend their 'homegroung'.Period.You invade someones 'safe area' you'd best be prepared to pay the piper.

I wish the CO the best of luck in this incident.CCW or not if our lives are at tisk the punishment should be nil.

The_Antibubba
September 18, 2004, 04:50 AM
"Off-duty corrections officer makes first hole-in-one!!"

:evil:

Ryder
September 18, 2004, 06:48 AM
It's not hard to see why he didn't drive away. Fear can easily paralyze you. To me this just supports the probability that he really did shoot in fear as he is required to do. Fear hits kind of sudden... Like a golf club.

Three attackers armed with deadly weapons? Lucky guy.

Mannlicher
September 18, 2004, 01:44 PM
The shooter might be faced with civil action at the least. This does not look like a 'good shooting' to me. The guy in the pick up had way too many chances to just drive away, and I don't think being attacked by a guy with a golf club rises to the level of putting someone in fear for their life.

PromptCritical
September 18, 2004, 03:49 PM
My $.02

While I am all for only shooting as an absolute last resort, I also believe in an armed society being a polite society. An attacker should not be entirely surprised when his full house is trumped by the victims royal flush. When you do things you shouldn't do in a civilized world, you should expect the possibility of paying the price.

Bruce H
September 18, 2004, 04:27 PM
I would say that the corrections officer was remarkably calm in this case. He shot and killed the most serious threat but didn't kill either of the two women beating on his vehicle. Based on the news report I see nothing wrong with how it went down. Andersons fuse was way too short. At least he was dispatched without injury to innocents.

Wayne D
September 18, 2004, 08:15 PM
and I don't think being attacked by a guy with a golf club rises to the level of putting someone in fear for their life.

You don't think a golf club can kill someone?

BluesBear
September 19, 2004, 05:07 AM
and I don't think being attacked by a guy with a golf club rises to the level of putting someone in fear for their life. and I don't think you know much about golf clubs. :rolleyes:

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