Wordy and confusing?


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Oleg Volk
September 18, 2004, 05:34 AM
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/albums/arms/osetia.sized.jpg
I don't have access to hi-res news images. The pictures I did have for this poster don't seem like a very close fit. Thoughts or suggestions?

(Maybe I need a comma before "watch". Maybe I need to ditch this mess and start over.)

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VaughnT
September 18, 2004, 06:46 AM
Maybe say "russia" instead of Osetia. I didn't quite catch on, at first.

Too wordy? I don't think so. Though, you might get a better reaction if you just said something to the effect that "Terrorists know our kids go to school in 'gun=free zones'!"

"How fast can the police get there?"

1911Tuner
September 18, 2004, 08:30 AM
Not at all, Oleg. Seems to get the point across clearly.

The part of the caption: "How fast can the police get there"
isn't even pertinent. In situations like the incident in Russia, by the time the police arrive, the invaders own the arena, and the police often can't even approach the area without provoking a killing. Armed and trained
staff within the school makes much better sense, since a strong resolve
and the equipment to mount an immediate and effective response stands
a much better chance of containing the bad guys than waiting for the cavalry to come and save the day. How much differently the tragedy at Columbine would have turned out had the teachers all been armed.
Casualties? No doubt. The attack came without warning. I'd be willing to
bet that there would have been far fewer casualties though. The same goes for the incident at Luby's cafeteria in Waco.

The cry: "Call the police! They'll protect us" is a sheep mentality that has to go. It's more critical now than ever before. It's not a matter of "IF"
this happens in America...It's a matter of time.

Good poster.

Tuner

geekWithA.45
September 18, 2004, 09:42 AM
Hmmm....{grabs editting pencil}


Terrorists seek soft targets. Armed teachers make a difference.

Terrorists seek soft targets. Armed teachers foil them.

Arming the teachers works (In Israel, x,y,z,etc}

Watch helplessly or fight back? Arm the teachers!

Armed teachers: for when you absolutely, postively must fight back right NOW. Not in 10 minutes, not in 5, NOW.


Armed teachers: Nothing is nobler than to teach and defend.


At school, who's got your kid's six?

Your school's current anti terror plan is a locked door. {Image of school door with big window}
Yeah, that'll work. {Image of Russian school carnage.}
Armed teachers!

hso
September 18, 2004, 10:12 AM
I think the idea that terrorists first pick soft targets with minimum risk is the best way to go, but be careful to avoid the association trying to be made by the antis the terrorists will have access to assault rifles now that AWB has sunsetted. Also, I think most parents' reactions will be to want armed trained security personnel trained to respond instead of untrained teachers. This one may not be effective any way we apprach it.

Chipperman
September 18, 2004, 10:16 AM
Must be a rough school.
Not only is the teacher armed, but she's wearing body armor. :p

P95Carry
September 18, 2004, 10:18 AM
In fact Oleg .. in this case, no - not too wordy I think because the message is necessary, good and comes across. I agree tho - insert ''Russia'' instead of ''Osetia'' .. this is fresh in people's minds and they will know exactly to what it refers ... in fact even long after, it will be remembered too.

Minor point ... but the landscape layout - tho ideal - seems a bit lacking in height .... in as much as the red background bottom right with the terrorist message, appears as tho it couldn't quite fit in! Probably because the text is sitting on outer edge of pic. Maybe of course that was only way to make it fit anyways! Oh and .. the gray ''bar'' on right - not sure that's useful.

Let me illustrate what I mean ... re that text ...... lifting it off bottom a bit . Pedantic? Probably! :p


http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/img_assd/osetia-2.jpg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Meant to add ... I don't think using news pics is that important .... tho later perhaps try it again with anything you can grab. As it is - stands up just fine .... works for me.:)

Standing Wolf
September 18, 2004, 12:41 PM
Maybe I need a comma before "watch".

No. Trust me, please: a comma there would be totally out of place. Adverbs don't need to be set off with commas.

There's nothing wrong with the statement on the left, although I'd use "Russia" instead of the name of the town.

The statement on the right needs to be much shorter: something along the lines of "The U.S. government won't let American teachers protect your kids."

Actually, that's not quite 100% true, since teachers in Utah can carry concealed firearms. You could, in fact, make that the whole point of the poster: in the U.S., only Utah teachers can legally protect your kids.

Mad Man
September 18, 2004, 02:11 PM
In America, it doesn't have to be this way.

(optional addition): Let our teachers protect our children.

garrettwc
September 18, 2004, 02:36 PM
How about "helplessly" instead of impotently?

A more anguished look on the head shot? Lose the body armor on the other one.

Other than that another great one.

Old Fuff
September 18, 2004, 02:59 PM
In any case I wouldn't dump it. The message is current ... and important. Such an outrage could happen here, and in most cases security consists of a sign outside the front of the school that reads, "No Guns Allowed." In either Russia or the United States any terrorist or criminal would ignore such signs. Perhaps this will provide you with an additional insight.

Keep up the good work. :D

Mad Man
September 18, 2004, 07:52 PM
a sign outside the front of the school that reads, "No Guns Allowed."

Hmmm. How about a picture of the siege with a caption like "Gun Free Safe School Zone".

Mal H
September 18, 2004, 08:04 PM
My editing would echo what several have already said:

'Russia' for 'Osetia'
'helplessly' for 'impotently' (comma not necessary after either word)
hyphen not required with "school children"
Should have a period at end of "In America" sentence


Nonetheless, the message is clear and good.

Oleg Volk
September 18, 2004, 08:18 PM
Please keep suggestions coming. I will re-edit on Sunday.

P95Carry
September 18, 2004, 10:10 PM
Oleg ... just thinking of contracting the text on right a shade .... maybe ....

''In America -
If Federal Law did not forbid armed teachers, your children could be safer too.''

That is as short as it goes but also perhaps ......

''In America -
Federal law forbids the armed teacher - and so your children are at risk. Terrorists however follow no laws.''

There are various constructions that can all work.

Andrew Rothman
September 19, 2004, 12:10 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, the federal law in question is the Gun Free Schools Act of 1994. It requires that schools expel kids who bring guns to school, and creates a 1000-foot radius around schools, within which it is a felony to have a gun unless you have a carry permit that included a background check, or it's unloaded and in a locked container.

So a teacher with a permit isn't prohibited from carrying by any federal law I'm aware of. Of course, there may be state laws or district rules, but that's something else.

Or is there another federal law I'm not familiar with?

El Cid
September 19, 2004, 01:07 AM
The problem I have with armed teachers is some students think it is their mission in life to try to push the teachers over the edge. One teacher in High School years ago did crack. I'm just glad he didn't have a weapon and merely punch the student out. The techer was given the choice of resigning or getting fired. He was "strange".

Oleg Volk
September 19, 2004, 01:22 AM
Maybe the students would realize that their teachers can take on terrorists and that students are small fry by comparison ;-)

entropy
September 19, 2004, 04:14 AM
My .02:
Change Osetia to Russia (or Chechnya)
Change ' had to' to 'could only'
Change impotently to horrified, and re-shoot pic to reflect that.
Add 'innocent' in front of school children, and eliminate the hyphen.
Reshoot pic without vest, or better yet, under the shirt.
As has been pointed out, there is probably no Federal Law that would prohibit legal CCW by permit holders, but many states do have them. Reword to state this.
Change 'your kids' to 'our kids'. Inclusive instead of divisive.
Period at the end of sentence. "....at stake."
Terrorists know this . Makes it more immediate.

Test run:
In Russia, horrified adults could only helplessly look on as terrorists slaughtered innocent school children.

Here in America,
teachers could be able to protect
our children from terrorists.
Unfortunately, most are
forbidden by law to be armed
to do so, while the lives of
our children are at stake.


TERRORISTS KNOW THIS

Great idea, Oleg! I can't wait for the redo!:)

joab
September 19, 2004, 04:38 AM
I think the naming the town makes it more personal I would leave that, most people think on a local level more than on a national level. You could not even give a location and everybody that the message coulkd possibly effect knows where you are talking about.
Russia to many of us in my age bracket, who were taught to hide under desks when the nukes came, is still the USSR. Naming the town localizes the situation and gives a more personal face to the tragedy.

Helpless is too generic a word impotent goes way beyond and will strike it's own special chord for men. No joke intended.
Horrified is a corny word in my opinion

Don't change the text it implies that we have the means to protect but the goverment won't allow it.
The phrase "Federal law forbids" at the beginning of a sentance would automatically be equated in some minds that therefore we don't have the means.

I know this is not coming out right. But the theory that "we can but they won't let us" ,to me, is more powerful than " they won't let us so we can't"

I would get her out of the body armor though she looks more like an undercover cop and that sends an inappropriate message here.

Matt G
September 19, 2004, 04:56 AM
Agree with entropy: should end "Terrorists Know This."


I also agree with Mal. Say "Russia," rather than "Osetia." I realize that Russia as a large, multifarous country is very real to you, Oleg, but most Americans still see it as the enigmatic, mostly centralized place that they thought of back in USSR days.

Where's her holster?

dustind
September 19, 2004, 05:48 AM
I think NH has armed teachers, I am not possitive though.

coylh
September 19, 2004, 07:09 AM
Hi Oleg. I like the idea, but I vote for simpler.

"Terrorists know teachers are unarmed."

I would also suggest, though this might be stretching into another picture, that the background image (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1206631/posts) should be something that communicates "Terrorists killed schoolchildren." We then hope that the message received is "Armed teachers can prevent terrorists killing students."

Kamicosmos
September 19, 2004, 09:21 AM
I would have the teacher defending a child-student. Make her look more like a teacher too...put her in a black dress or something. Right now, especially with the body armor, she looks more like a cop....or possibly a terrorist even...

Also, I thought the school was in Beslan? What's Osetia (region, area, suburb?) I agree that Russia or Checknya would be a bit better for recognition in the long term.

I think the rest of it works very well.

Waitone
September 19, 2004, 08:39 PM
Beslan is the town we know about.

Russia

Parents, not adults

Delete impotently

Remove school and insert their

"In Russia parents had to watch as terrorists slaughtered their children."

"In America federal and state law prohibit teachers from arming themselves even if it is to protect your children."

"An assault on American schools will be easier than it was in Russia."

Oleg Volk
September 19, 2004, 10:05 PM
I have a good idea of how to edit it, but I might not have time until about Sept.28th...

jamz
September 19, 2004, 10:57 PM
How about " In Russia, parents had to watch as terrorists slaughtered their children."

Pics.

"In America, teachers could protect your kids, were they allowed the tools."

Then, in red at the bottom, "Terrorists Know Schools are Defenseless/Unarmed/etc".


Well, everybody's a critic. :p

-James

White Horseradish
September 20, 2004, 12:53 AM
I like "Terrorists know teachers are unarmed." as well.

I also think there is another angle to the story that can be used. I've seen mention of "armed locals" helping police and pursuing the escaping terrorists. This thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99824) linked to an image that appeared to be one of those armed locals. Some of those parents were watching through rifle scopes. Some handed their ammo to the troops who ran out. I think the fact that had it not been for some of these armed civilians the outcome would have been worse could make for a pretty good poster on its own.

gigmike
September 20, 2004, 01:15 AM
Perhaps you could add a candid photo of schoolchildren. Like when they're on the playground or getting off a school bus?

Great work!

BHPshooter
September 20, 2004, 02:26 AM
Actually, that's not quite 100% true, since teachers in Utah can carry concealed firearms. You could, in fact, make that the whole point of the poster: in the U.S., only Utah teachers can legally protect your kids.

They CAN... that doesn't mean that they DO. I am sure that none of my teachers in school (secondary and post-secondary) didn't have a gun on their person. Hell, I bet most of them wouldn't even know how to use one.

Add to that the fact that most of them continually spew antigun drivel... yes, I'm sure. Althought I guess the point is that it's a possibility.

Wes

Waitone
September 20, 2004, 10:28 AM
I am sure that none of my teachers in school (secondary and post-secondary) didn't have a gun on their person. Hell, I bet most of them wouldn't even know how to use one.

Add to that the fact that most of them continually spew antigun drivel... yes, I'm sure. Althought I guess the point is that it's a possibility.
Just one school attack on CONUS will do wonders for the ol' attitude. Government at all levels will quickly and conclusively demonstrate that it can not protect every school every where at all times. Then what will it do?

Nickotym
September 20, 2004, 11:29 AM
Just one school attack on CONUS will do wonders for the ol' attitude. Government at all levels will quickly and conclusively demonstrate that it can not protect every school every where at all times. Then what will it do?

If Schumer, Feinstein, Daschle and the like are still around, they will try to ban all guns.

Mad Man
September 20, 2004, 08:39 PM
Just one school attack on CONUS will do wonders for the ol' attitude. Government at all levels will quickly and conclusively demonstrate that it can not protect every school every where at all times. Then what will it do?


Based on what happened after a series of school attacks in the late 1990s, more gun control.

igor
September 20, 2004, 09:03 PM
Too wordy IMHO!

Ossetia is the state, Beslan is the town - Chechnya is the neighboring state. I say go for either Russia or Beslan; as you can see, any accuracy level between those will lead to confusion.

School-children, kids, children... tautology. Too many children.

Adults, terrorists, teachers, Federal law, terrorists again... too many subjects and objects. Too much everything, you're cramming too much to say in a single poster.

BTW, also remember that a whole bunch of Beslan folks did the impotently watching part cradling AKs next to the equally impotent OMON guys.

This is a good idea: good luck getting the message across! :)

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