Surface rust


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Oleg Volk
September 19, 2004, 12:24 AM
I just found light rust on several guns. Rubbing it off with CLP...anything else I can do to stop the spread of rust?

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bad_dad_brad
September 19, 2004, 12:39 AM
Oleg, as long as you get the original source of the rust off and gently, CLP will do the job, and for years to keep rust at bay. I had a pretty blued Beretta Jetfire once threatened by the orange scourge, and CLP breakfree made the difference. It is good stuff.

R.H. Lee
September 19, 2004, 02:11 AM
I live in a dry climate and don't worry too much about rust, so naturally I'll chime in. :p All "oils" are not equal rust preventatives, and some not as much as you'd think. Somewhere (maybe on this board) there is a comprehensive test of products for firearms rust prevention. I couldn't find it in a search, but I remember stuff like Bullfrog, Eezox, Rig-Rags and even wax mentioned. HTH.

sm
September 19, 2004, 02:32 AM
RIG

[internal/ external , been treating bbls with RIG forever, okay I've been using RIG forever]

External :
Good Car wax with Carnuba
Johnson's Paste wax
Minwax finishing wax ( I prefer the dark , for Blue&Wood of course ;) )

MY 870 Express for instance has had the bbl treated with RIG, RIG +P for choke tube, Magazine has been treated with RIG. External is treated with Minwax (dark). Ran over 150 rds of mostly slugs some buck and other loads yesterday...part of the COF was hot and dusty and having to deal with "rain" (irrigation sprinklers) Gun beaded up , me I was muddy and looked like a drowned rat covered in dust.

:p

Redlg155
September 19, 2004, 02:33 AM
Get a dehumidifier for the safe or some industrial size dessicant packages. That combined with a good coating of Break Free/CLP should end your rust woes.

Good Shooting
Red

Oleg Volk
September 19, 2004, 02:44 AM
The gun case had a silica gel packet in it... I found that rust formed where human hands contacted...even on stainless.

entropy
September 19, 2004, 02:55 AM
I use BreakFree CLP and my fingernails to get light surface rust off, I've found BreakFree and RemOil are excellent for keeping it off. I've heard nothing but good about Eezox, but haven't tried it personally.
The key is be sure to check your guns frequently, particularly in humid areas like yours, Oleg. And never leave them in a foam padded case. we're talking mere hours before the rust starts on a just-fired gun left in a foam-padded case!:what:

sm
September 19, 2004, 03:06 AM
Oleg ,
You already know each person has a different PH level their body gives off - some folks just "touch and rust". You also know Stainless - just "resists" rust - it will rust. I'm sure you are not storing guns in cases.

Now we share similar climates ( TN , AR). I use the $4 "Sack Ups" for a variety of uses. For instance Citori 3 bbl set I took 2 SU and cut in half ( giving me 4 ) Receiver in one, a bbl in each of remaining 3 , before going into Browning Hard case. I wiped off before leaving range/ hunt. Heat and humity or Freezing cold , I never had a rust problem - even if it took me a long time to get home...or I was traveling. That Citori is the ONLY gun I ever stored in original gun case - in conjuntion with Sack Ups....granted - "storage" defined meant it spent more time being used than anything else.

That 870 , I break into two pcs for Carry in my 'no name' baseball bat carrier ,[ Steve must be headed to batting practice ] Sack Ups and I was beat when I arrived home.... umm...I took stuff out of bag and set on counter when arrived home - I checked it later today....no problem.

I did actually clean my CCW I used when I arrived home....I did change to JHP ( traveled home with FMJs in gun and spare mags) but left the other handguns for today as well...no rust. The Blue 1911, KFrames... were RIG protected - I wasn't worried based on past experiences...so I put it off until today.

When I had a car , I used to leave guns in the trunk ( times were different - grant you) as did folks leave guns in gun racks in trucks....I mean through all the seasons....never knew when I was gonna shoot. I was required to keep a PG only SG in trunk , and there may have been a 1911 in there as well 24/ 7/ 365 ....no problems.

Granted the Sack Ups are treated...IMO the RIG gets impregnated as well and makes them better. :)

For Storage / Safes , all handguns are loaded { I keep here] I use cigar boxes to stack in the Safe , grips are exposed some when placed in a Sack Up first. Long guns are unloaded - placed in Sack Ups before being place in Storage / Safe.

I basically keep stuff off site .I keep CCWs here, sometimes a shotgun. For security - " what appers to be - ain't - what ain't is. Apt living with exterminators and such... What guns? :)

I have been invited by folks to teach me Fiream Safety and teach me to shoot...I dunno about this gun dealie * smirk* I reply .
HTH

LAK
September 19, 2004, 03:20 AM
Silica gel won't do any good unless it is in an airtight case. There must be sufficient silica gel per cubic foot of air in the case; I use the "sardine tin" sized cans available from many suppliers. I get mine from;

http://cases4less.com

I also use Tetra gun grease. When applied thin to a clean and degreased surface it can be wiped dry. I apply it to every surface, including the bore. In the case of bores I coat the bore and make sure the grease is rubbed well into the entire bore surface, then swab them out dry. Then I use a clean mop to buff it. This leaves the bore in a protected state but safe to shoot should the desire or need arise. It can of course be left "wet", but just make sure to swab it all out before shooting. It is an excellent protectant in my experience though there are other brands that work as well no doubt.

Another product I find excellent for protecting metal (and wood) is Renaissance Wax. in the case of metal it is best applied thin to a clean degreased surface, rubbed well into all corners etc, then when dry - gently buff. This stuff is the best wax I have ever used on metal, wood, leather or anything else.

To read about:
http://www.silversmithing.com/cutleryspecialties/describe.htm#RENAISSANCE%20WAX

To buy:
http://shop.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/assets/html/homepage.asp
(GO: "Finishes & Glues" left side, then "Waxes" lower right thumbnail)

0007
September 19, 2004, 10:43 AM
Always wipe them off after anyone (including yourself) handles them. I just keep an old rag handy. I'm one of the "acid hands". I can touch raw (or blued) steel one day and the next day my fingerprints will be visible as light surface rust. For your favorite carry/handle-all-the-time-pieces, contact Walt Birdsong and get his "Black-T" finish applied. He does every part of the firearm including springs and screws except for the bore. I haven't been able to blow the finish off the brake on my .50 yet...

Amish_Bill
September 19, 2004, 01:08 PM
A little CLP or FP10 and a bit of 0000 steel wool will take that surface bloom right off. Don't rub hard - You shouldn't need to.

Be sure to rub it down again with a clp patch/rag after the steel wool... to make sure you get all the steel wool particles off the gun.

redneck2
September 19, 2004, 01:25 PM
Some of the better penetrating oils (Kroil, etc) will actually dissolve rust

I use a Rig Rag oil/grease impregnated leather rag every time I handle a gun and every few months I pull them out of the safe and wipe them down. The heating rod does a great job.

I also suspect R/O hydraulic (rust & oxidation inhibited) would work well and be relatively inexpensive

There are commercial rust preventatives that I sell to machine shops and tool/die shops that work extremely well. One of our demos for our product is to put one piece of new steel in acid/water/peroxide mix, then another piece that has had the rust preventative applied. The untreated one rusts in maybe 30 seconds, the treated one looks new after 5 minutes.

4v50 Gary
September 19, 2004, 02:08 PM
I wouldn't use steel wood to remove rust. A pre-'83 copper penny and a bit of Break Free removes the surface rust.

For conserving guns (that you're not going to shoot), use Rennaisance Wax. It's developed by the British Museum and is good for woods & metals.

SMLE
September 19, 2004, 06:49 PM
I mixed up a batch of Ed's Red with lanoline in it. It zaps rust like crazy and keeps it off. The lanoline adds to the film strength and "sticking power"

P95Carry
September 19, 2004, 07:12 PM
Lots of usefil tips .... but light ''scouring'' ... very light .. with Scotchbrite pad and some CLP or Kroil will hopefully deal with surface rust .. which hopefully has not produced pitting.

After that tho ..... a wipe off to remove all oil residue ... can well be followed by ''Boeshield'' .... it is like using a wax treatment but IMO it lasts better. I keep a CLP laden rag in my range kit and if a sweaty day give a quick wipe over blued areas even before finishing ... the Boeshield approach I do later before safe storage.

I have moderately acidic sweat and have to be careful .. and notice one or two others have stated they have a problem in that division .... I remember also that Wes (Fumegator) gets this real bad.!

Telperion
September 19, 2004, 07:46 PM
And never leave them in a foam padded case.Why are foam-padded cases bad? Can they accelerate rusting?

SMLE
September 19, 2004, 07:52 PM
Why are foam-padded cases bad? Can they accelerate rusting? Yes!The foam will trap and hold moisture. It's like storing your gun in a sauna. Very bad.:(

sendec
September 19, 2004, 07:57 PM
I have caustic alien sweat that'll disolve glass. I gave up and just have everything parkerized and doused with whatever oily stuff is close at hand, but to no avail. Tried everything short of butter and am now content to having guns with a protective rust crust.

JohnKSa
September 20, 2004, 12:34 AM
There is a product called MP-5 that is about the best I have encountered for preventing rust without leaving an oily surface.

I have NEVER had anything rust when protected by MP-5. The only places I know that sell it are airgun suppliers.

It is NOT a lubricant, it's for protection only. Goes on wet like a very thin oil and eventually leaves a dry coating that will protect against fingerprints, etc.

CLP is also good but stays oily.

For cleaning off rust, I recommend DRY 0000 steel wool. Use a dusting motion to take off the rust, and shake the rust particles out of the steel wool frequently. When you use oily steel wool, the oil holds in the rust particles and makes an abrasive slurry out of them. Dry steel wool always seems to be easier on the finish in my experience.

When the rust is gone, then oil it with CLP or MP-5.

BTW, if you have body chemistry like mine you learn you must always wipe down a firearm after handling it. ...and you buy a lot of stainless and polymer guns.

SteelyDan
September 20, 2004, 01:48 AM
I don't know what silica gel is. All the silica dessicants I've seen have been granular, about the size of small BBs. Anyway, with the granular stuff, it absorbs water and becomes saturated and useless over time. (Could be a month or two, could be a year or two.) Fortunately, there's an easy cure. Just put it in the oven at 175 degrees or so (with the door cracked open) for a couple hours and it will be good as new.

WhoKnowsWho
September 20, 2004, 10:09 AM
All the silica dessicants I've seen have been granular,

Sometimes it is called gel for some reason... you know, the funny english language. Being "sane" is good, but being in it is bad... :D

SLCDave
September 20, 2004, 01:27 PM
I have a Springfield XD which are notorious for rusting. I found a product called Armadillo from Blue Wonder that has worked wonderfully keeping off the rust. I like Eezox, but since I apparently have the "SuperSweat", I need a little something more.

firearms_instructor
September 20, 2004, 01:54 PM
called Rem Dry-Lube, which is microscopic Teflon particles suspended in a highly volatile solvent spray. You spray it on, and the solvent spreads out over the metal, depositing a fine film of Teflon before evaporating.

I have used used it to Teflon-coat the steel parts of most of my guns, and it basically seals the pores in the metal, and leaves a slick dry coating.

Great stuff, but make sure you:
1) Clean all parts as thoroughly as possible before applying it;
2) Use in a well-ventilated area (NOT INDOORS!), and preferably wear an inhalant filter mask and eye protection;
3) Make sure to remove any plastic or rubber parts, because the solvent in this stuff will eat plastic, and watch your overspray carefully for the same reason, probably best to spray inside a large cardboard box to catch any overspray;

I don't know what it costs these days, but I think I paid less than $10 a can last time I bought some, and it was a very cheap way to Teflon-coat my gun steel.

Deavis
September 23, 2004, 07:11 PM
I keep a silicone rag next to my carry weapons and just do a quick wipedown of the slide every couple days. Since I started doing that I have not developed any rust on my XD, which surface rusts easily.

If you want something that does well long term, you could try LPS3. It is wax based, smells good, and is easy to apply. It does not leave a heavy wax build up if applied lightly and keeps rust at bay for 5 years (they claim). I put a little on my 870 and it hasn't rusted in 3 years of storage in an un-airconditioned closet in Houston. LPS makes some great stuff.

13A
September 24, 2004, 12:48 AM
http://www.accuratereloading.com/rustest.html

J-Man
September 27, 2004, 09:36 PM
Any good oils in this regard that resist HEAT well too? I always smoke my barrel clean every shoot! :)

incursion
September 28, 2004, 01:27 PM
Is there anyway to remove rust from hard chrome? It seems like it's underneath the plating in the form of black specks.

P95Carry
September 28, 2004, 01:43 PM
it's underneath the plating in the form of black specks. Sounds like bad pre-chome plate prep'ing .. inadequate pickling maybe and/or nickel stage. Doubt much you can do therapeutically.

Not sure but ... an application of cola might just lightly phosphate treat it if permeable enough ... to arrest things. Not put that to test tho.

Amish_Bill
September 28, 2004, 01:52 PM
Cola Phosphate treatment??

P95Carry
September 28, 2004, 02:30 PM
Bill .. there is usually enough phosphate (phosphoric acid) in most colas to achieve conversion/stabilization on light steel rusting. You can use proprietory brands of phosphating treatments but colas will often be enough. Pepsi seems to do it anyways! Try it on a rusty nail.

incursion
October 16, 2004, 06:45 PM
Did you mean, "don't put that to the test?" Or is it safe to try it?

P95Carry
October 16, 2004, 07:05 PM
Did you mean, "don't put that to the test?" Or is it safe to try it? What I mean is ... try it! It is totally safe if you want to try and phosphate some light rust .... tho probably slower than using a proprietory formulation.

It should be possible after some exposure to the cola - then rinsing off with water .. to see a color change .. the brown turns very much darker which usually indicates it has been converted. De-greasing is needed BTW before any phosphating, as the solution is water based.

A gentle rub with finest wire wool should not produce any brown rust surface color or powder - if it does then buff gently again with fine wire wool and re-treat, with another rinse to follow ... and dry thoroughly of course.

incursion
October 16, 2004, 07:21 PM
It's not brown; it's black.

P95Carry
October 16, 2004, 07:29 PM
Oh sorry - I was forgetting your original point re black specks, hard chrome etc.

To be honest .. without seeing the offending item .... it's hard to know exactly what is there. Black can also suggest an iron sulfide ... what happens I wonder if you scrape a black spot with a toothpick ... just to disturb its surface a bit ..... will it still be black or not.

I have no hard chrome on any of my guns so - nothing to compare with at all.

incursion
October 16, 2004, 07:42 PM
https://webspace.utexas.edu/elim/www/Pitting - 640x480.jpg

https://webspace.utexas.edu/elim/www/pitting2 - 640x480.jpg

https://webspace.utexas.edu/elim/www/Rust%20Dust%20Cover%20-%20640x480.jpg

P95Carry
October 16, 2004, 07:59 PM
Dang it - you gotta make those pics a smidgeon smaller .. this ol' phart is stuck on dial up!:D

Well - I see the specks but still hard to tell what they comprize. I think we need someone else to chip in here who has hard chrome and similar effect. This appears to be occurring just under edge of grip panels .. so possibly linked with moisture/sweat. Sorry not more help.

incursion
October 16, 2004, 08:02 PM
Yeah, I'm almost positive that it's from sweat. I have some forming on the dust cover as well. I wipe the gun very often now. The whole left side is prone to rust because of my sweat. Houston is too damn hot! I'll try to get some clearer pics later. I would love to be able to get these spots out.

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