What is your CCW Status?


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mountainclmbr
September 19, 2004, 12:44 AM
Mine, had a CCW in Florida from 1997. Now live in Colorado and have Colorado Resident and Florida non-resident permits.

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Prof
September 19, 2004, 01:06 AM
Live in California and have a CCW. And I'm not rich or a Hollywood movie star! :D

Old Dog
September 19, 2004, 01:12 AM
have res CPL here where currently living, res CHL from home state (military, so best of both worlds) and am working on non-res CHL from state where family now resides and I may retire ...

QuarterBoreGunner
September 19, 2004, 01:22 AM
What Prof said. One of 8 in San Francisco. Which is pretty sad.

stv
September 19, 2004, 01:35 AM
Yeah, the situation here is pretty sad indeed.

After emailing back and forth with the anonymous person behind the SFPD's Public Relations department email address, I was finally told:

you have a right to send a request, in writing, to the Chief's office to
request a license to carry a concealed weapon. the Chief's office will
either formally accept your request or deny your request.

Chief's Office
850 bryant st. rm 525
San francisco, ca 94103


which I figure is probably PR-speak for 'I'm trying to get you off my back'.

sm
September 19, 2004, 01:38 AM
AR Res
FL Non- Res

insidious_calm
September 19, 2004, 01:40 AM
Texas non-resident holder. No permits allowed here in the peoples republic of Kansas. :fire:


I.C.

Lancel
September 19, 2004, 01:55 AM
Although I've had CCW permits in other states, they have since expired. That's ok; they're pretty much trumped by my current Tennessee one.

Larry

SAG0282
September 19, 2004, 03:43 AM
Concealed pistol license issued from my home state, the great state of Washington.

Mark in California
September 19, 2004, 04:05 AM
I have had a CCW since I was in College. In my part of the state it is almost shall issue. I live just 100 miles short of the Oregon Border. For the first 20 years I had no restrictions, in the last four years they have added a couple.

In the beggining, I received a call from the Chief of Police telling me if I had a problem to make a appointment and see him. I did, and I convinced him and he issued me my first permit. It only took five years for this kid to get that appointment.

It also helped that both my father and uncle were hard working members of community and were well respected.

My advise, if you have a chance to talk to the Chief of Police take it, nothing ventured nothing gained

Ellery Holt
September 19, 2004, 04:46 AM
Currently hold home-state permit in Oregon, and also hold neighboring Washington and (windy) Florida.

misANTHrope
September 19, 2004, 04:53 AM
I'm planning on getting a NC-res CCW fairly soon. I think my roommate and I are going to find a class and take it together. Of course, this also means I need to look into a carry piece. :D

seed
September 19, 2004, 04:56 AM
I live in **********...Take a wild guess how I answered the poll...

lwsimon
September 19, 2004, 05:33 AM
Forgot one - "My state feels that those between the ages of 18 and 21 are unworthy of the right to self-protection".

SKN
September 19, 2004, 05:45 AM
Resident state, OR, and non-resident permits in AZ, FL, UT and WA, as well as my CA retired LEO credential. I obtained my 18 USC 926C (d) (2) (B) credential shortly after 'W' signed HR218 so I won't have to renew any of them and will now be good in HI where I was born.

Mortech
September 19, 2004, 05:45 AM
Resident CCW permit in WA for te past 12 years , considering gettng a FL one .

Morgan
September 19, 2004, 05:45 AM
You forgot another - nationwide carry permit.

stevelyn
September 19, 2004, 08:19 AM
I live in Alaska.















































What's a permit?:D :neener:

spartacus2002
September 19, 2004, 08:38 AM
The Aleutian islands have internet access?? I have this mental image of the cable going out, you walk outside, there's a walrus using the cable line to floss...

stevelyn
September 19, 2004, 09:23 AM
Sparticus,

Rather than highjack a thread you have a pm.:D

lee n. field
September 19, 2004, 09:38 AM
Don't have, can't get. I'm in Ill-i-noise, and I'm not a crony or friend of Da Mayor.

Nightfall
September 19, 2004, 09:42 AM
I've no CCW permit. I've no CCW. At only 20, I'm not yet old enough to handle a handgun or worthy of defending my own life, or the life of another innocent. So sayeth the gov't. :rolleyes:

(of course, I'm perfectly capable of handling anything from 9mm handguns to .50 cal machine guns so long as I'm doing it on the government's behalf!):banghead:

mtnbkr
September 19, 2004, 10:16 AM
I have a permit for my state, the commonwealth of Virginia. It's good for every state I travel to except for Pa and Md. I need to get a non-res for Pa, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Md? Yeah, right.

Still, I can travel to Tn, NC, Wv without any problems. That right there covers 90% of my out of state roaming.

Chris

buy guns
September 19, 2004, 10:19 AM
i selected NO but that is because i am not old enough. got about a year and 5 months left.

mcmoyer
September 19, 2004, 11:47 AM
Wife & I are signed up for Texas CHL classes next month.

:D :D

tcdrennen
September 19, 2004, 12:11 PM
Kali res CCW, NV, UT, FL non res.

SOME parts of Kali aren't no-issue, but you do have to jump through some odd and expensive hoops, since each sheriff or chief of police can set arbitrary stbdards.

Jrob24
September 19, 2004, 12:57 PM
I couldn't vote. The authorities wouldn't give me one in this may-issue state
:mad:

RRTX
September 19, 2004, 01:01 PM
I have a Texas resident CHL and a New Hampshire Non-resident CHL :D

jnojr
September 19, 2004, 01:20 PM
Why is "not allowed" and "not interested" the same item???

CAPTAIN MIKE
September 19, 2004, 01:39 PM
* CCW - PSRK
* CCW - NV
* CCW - UT
* CCW - FL

By adding FL and UT non-resident CCW permits to your existing permits, you expand your 'coverage' across many states. Too see just how many, go to www.packing.org and click on the 'License Tool'. The result will help you tally just how many states you're covered in.

The next step is to push for National Reciprocity through your Senators and Congressional representatives.

Michael

wasrjoe
September 19, 2004, 02:30 PM
Where's the "Not old enough to CCW, but old enough to Open Carry" choice?

SB88LX
September 19, 2004, 03:40 PM
No permit in maryland, lowly peasants like myself aren't allowed, but political royalty can.

cracked butt
September 19, 2004, 04:26 PM
Despite overwhelming support of it in my state, the bunghole governor doesn't see the serfs fit for carrying weapons.

wprebeck
September 19, 2004, 06:15 PM
Can I irritate some of you all for a minute? :D


I'm in LE, so I don't need one....



Now, before we get out the pitchforks, lanterns, and a big bonfire, hear me out...:p

I currently have a CCW in Kentucky. The earliest I could get one was when I turned 21. That happened 7 years ago in March, and by July, I had my permit, along with a Beretta 96 to go with it. I still have it, and will continue to renew it until I die.

I fully believe in CCW, and happily try to convince anyone out there that is against it, that they're just wrong. Basically, as I said before, I don't NEED the permit, what with the recently passed law allowing me to carry out of state. But, it's not that much of an expense to maintain the permit, and kind of allows me to put my $$ where my mouth is. Although, the picture on it is a bit disturbing, so I try not to show it to anybody! ;)


For those of you in Alasa and Vermont: Congratulations on the fact that your state has some sense with guns, and allows you to carry without any type of permits. But, you should really consider getting one anyway, if you decide to travel. Kentucky recognizes ALL permits from ANY state. But, if you don't have one, then you're pushing your luck. You could always open carry, but in the larger cities, that's gonna give you more problems than it's worth.

Of course, if you never leave your state, then why bother getting a permit? Just thought I'd mention how gun friendly my particular state is...We don't even have that many restrictions on WHERE you can carry. NOne of that "where ever alcohol is sold" crap (only if it's by the drink, and actual resteraunts don't count), and you can carry onto college campuses or into large sporting events, as well. I was rather disappointed to discover Texas (who'd have thunk it?) doesn't allow that!

Anyway, I'm a permit holder, have been for almost 8 years, and will keep it until such time as I can no longer carry a gun...

gbourne
September 19, 2004, 06:46 PM
Resident Ohio Permit. I need to get a Non-Resident PA permit.

Hypnogator
September 19, 2004, 07:33 PM
Just renewed my Texas CHL, but don't need it now.

Retired Fed -- I'm now licensed in all states! :D :D :D

nico
September 19, 2004, 08:00 PM
Why is "not allowed" and "not interested" the same item???
I second that. "not allowed" and "not interrested" are completely different. If there were any way I could get a ccw in Maryland, I would. Because I'm (most likely) going to dental school next year, there's a chance that I may be able to get one in the next 5 or 6 years. I'll be working in my father's dental practice (most likely as a partner) and according to other dentists he knows, the state police will issue a CCW to doctors who keep narcotics in their offices. My father will probably be getting one in the next couple of years (the fact that he's on the state board of dental examiners will probably help him) so he'll be able to help me with the process.

mountainclmbr
September 19, 2004, 08:01 PM
Congrats to LEO who can carry anywhere in the USA. I am jealsous indeed! I try not to travel where I cannot protect myself, that keeps me out of the crime capitols most of the time. I have to travel to CA, NJ, MD and DC on occasion and I always have a feeling of dread driving to the airport. I can't imagine living in any of those places.

Sorry for options I didn't think about. I choose not to live in places that restrict me more than the average, but realize that many cannot. I have travelled to many countries and have to say that the USA is a pretty great place, despite it's faults. Most places are much, much worse. Hence the illegal immigration problem we have versus the force used to make people stay as used in Cuba, China, North Korea and the former USSR.

tony4311
September 20, 2004, 12:18 AM
Not allowed in WI. barely (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=102185)
:mad:

jefnvk
September 20, 2004, 12:45 AM
"My state feels that those between the ages of 18 and 21 are unworthy of the right to self-protection".

Count me in :banghead: :cuss:

On my 21st bday, my CCW permit will go wherever it needs to go, my C&R license will be mailed, and hopefully I win at the casino, so when my C&R license comes in, I can send out for my Sten :neener:

Lobotomy Boy
September 20, 2004, 09:34 PM
I've taken the course, but we have a judge in Minnesota who has decided to legislate from the bench and our CCW status is now in limbo.

We have an election coming up and I've been trying to get information on the judges who are running, but I can't find anything. I usually end up not voting for judges for fear that I'll help get someone like Finley elected.

Lobotomy Boy
September 20, 2004, 09:34 PM
I've taken the course, but we have a judge in Minnesota who has decided to legislate from the bench and our CCW status is now in limbo.

We have an election coming up and I've been trying to get information on the judges who are running, but I can't find anything. I usually end up not voting for judges for fear that I'll help get someone like Finley elected.

SMLE
September 20, 2004, 10:49 PM
I've got my NM CHL and a New Hampshire CHL, will be getting Florida and Conn. as soon as I can scrape up the extra $$$. It is my current intention to get as many CHLs as I can just on general principles.

atek3
September 24, 2004, 03:55 AM
I live in PRK...Berkeley...I bet you can guess what I put down.
Man I swear, if I don't get hired at my dream job I'm going to be out of the PRK so fast it will make don perata's head spin.
I'm going to set roots down in NH, get my CCW.
Then stand on the roof top shouting, "Free at Last, Oh Lord, Free at Last"


amen,
atek3

Nathaniel Firethorn
September 24, 2004, 02:33 PM
Having a large negative interest in pulling a Golan Cipel, no permit.

I've had the application for a FL nonresident permit sitting on my desk for a year now. But I'm not in Free America enough to bother with it.

- pdmoderator

Black Snowman
September 24, 2004, 04:57 PM
Still fighting the good fight in KS but considering an out of state permit so I can carry elsewhere. What state that issues non-res permits has the most reciprocity? I heard FL.

srschick
September 24, 2004, 05:07 PM
Live in Illinois, work in Missouri, have Florida permit.
Nuff' said

Col. Mustard
September 24, 2004, 05:30 PM
I have an NC concealed handgun license, which makes me legal (according to www.packing.org) in 30 states. Adding a FL and/or a UT out-of-state permit would add one state to that list, and since I have no current plans to visit ND, I don't guess pursuing more state permits is cost-effective.

pinblaster
September 24, 2004, 06:06 PM
I'm a "blue collar grunt" who lives in Maryland . Need I say more ? Although Maryland does issue carry permits , it is my understanding that it is next to impossible to get one and if I'm not mistaken , most of the permits that are issued have restrictions on them . I would apply for one but the fact that no one is actively trying to kill me (as far as I know , anyway:D ) and a non-refundable application fee (I don't remember what the fee was exactly , but it wasn't chump change) , I think it would be a waste of my time and money . :rolleyes:

sch40
September 24, 2004, 09:25 PM
Just looking for the perfect holster :D :D :D

(live in a non-participating MO county, but got an applicable permit from FL . . . long story . . . )

R.H. Lee
September 24, 2004, 09:36 PM
I am allowed to possess an unrestricted number of small arms (rifles, shotguns and handguns). I am not allowed to carry them on my person, nor am I allowed to carry them in my vehicle, unless I am on my way to or from a range. Also, they must be unloaded while in my vehicle.

Seminole
September 24, 2004, 11:00 PM
First got my CCW in Florida. Moved to TN, where I now have a resident "handgun carry permit" and now a non-resident CCW in Fl.

jefmad
September 25, 2004, 07:26 AM
No CCW permit, not allowed to carry in my state. But, boy do I wish that I could. I spens almost all my time in either Wisconsin or Iowa so I do not see much point in getting an out of state permit from those states that do allow it.

JimC
September 25, 2004, 08:32 AM
I answered I have a CCW permit in my state but thanks to GWB and H.R. 218 or Public Law 108-277, as a retired LEO, I am now allowed legally, to carry in ANY state that I so desire. ;)

johnvid
September 25, 2004, 08:43 AM
Ohio just became a CCW state in April. I received my CCW in June. This law has several items that still need fixing, but it is better than nothing.

mountainclmbr
September 25, 2004, 09:40 AM
Question for LEO and retired LEO - has H.R. 218 made much difference for your ability to carry where you live or where you travel?

JimC
September 25, 2004, 09:46 AM
Question for LEO and retired LEO - has H.R. 218 made much difference for your ability to carry where you live or where you travel?

I don't travel out of state that much but it's nice to know that when I go over the border to PA from NJ, I can now carry. :D

redhead
September 25, 2004, 11:37 AM
I can't vote in that poll because there is no selection for the situation in my state. California is "may issue", which means that a petty tyrant can decided whether or not to issue one to you. Some of the counties here are pretty much "shall issue" because the sheriff (the "authority" from whom you have to ask permission) actually believes the 2nd amendment means what it says. In other counties, such as the one in which I reside, the sherriff most doesn't issue CCW's unless you are one of his cronies. So I'm pretty much out of luck.

DigMe
September 25, 2004, 12:05 PM
I have Texas res and New Hampshire non-res.

brad cook

Molon Labe
September 25, 2004, 03:22 PM
I do not recognize laws requiring a person to obtain a CCW "permit" before being "allowed" to carry. I am of the belief a free citizen must never ask the government for permission to practice an inalienable right. So if I want to carry a concealed weapon, I simply carry a concealed weapon. That's my CCW status...

Zach S
September 25, 2004, 07:43 PM
I think we've all been guilty of that at least once...

I have my NC permission slip. Keep on meaning to get my FL permit, but money's been getting tied up in other things. If not for SC and VA I probably would have just got my non-res FL permission slip and not bothered with NC.

SMLE
September 25, 2004, 07:59 PM
I do not recognize laws requiring a person to obtain a CCW "permit" before being "allowed" to carry. I am of the belief a free citizen must never ask the government for permission to practice an inalienable right. So if I want to carry a concealed weapon, I simply carry a concealed weapon. That's my CCW status... I agree, but right now we're fighting the incrementalism that got us in a hole with gun laws. It's going to take incrementalism to get us out. Alaska passed CCW, then, went "Vermont" style, so has Montans IIRC. First we get shall issue CCW passed, then after a couple of years of no massacres and no fender benders turning into fire-fights, we go back and loosen up the CCW laws until everybody is "Vermont" .

My 2 cents, YMMV.

jeff-10
September 26, 2004, 02:04 AM
Just got mine a few days ago. I really have no intention of ever carrying but I wanted it so I could buy a gun without waiting 5 days to pick it up.

Ian
September 26, 2004, 02:08 AM
Eligible for several, don't have any, don't want any. It's a right, not a privilege.

Starpower
September 27, 2004, 09:25 PM
I don't have, because in my state I don't need one, as LEO. But as for travel, JimC, yes it did certainly affect me. My son-in-law, (not LEO) has an Indiana CCW, so Michigan recognizes it and he can carry in Michigan.
As LEO without CCW in INdiana, I was not recognized in Michigan and COULDN'T carry. (??)
Now, thanks to 218, I went to Michigan and carried. (I do hope there's not an Oct 1 effective date????)
My partner, originally from Chicago, and I are going to check on this effective date, make a copy of 218 and walk right down Randolph street in Chi town, proud as punch!
Anybody got any links on stats for the effective date? Was it effective immediately, or more waiting? :confused:

PATH
September 27, 2004, 11:49 PM
New York State Resident (not valid in the realm of Snake Pliskin and the lads) permit. I also have PA and NH non-res. Will be applying for a Florida soon. I find it ironic that I have more rights in states that I am not a resident of than in my own!:rolleyes:

Damn hoplophobes!!!:banghead: :cuss: :fire:

UnknownSailor
September 28, 2004, 12:11 AM
Resident Washington permit.
I have a non-resident Florida permit application lying around here, but haven't gotten off my butt to get fingerprinted for it.

Simon76
October 15, 2004, 12:07 PM
Upon reading this thread it has become crystline clear to me that 90% of "Freedom Loving Americans" are either ignorant of the absolute truth of this issue (as well as NUMEROUS others). The fact is this: NONE OF US is required to do anything to legally carry ANY means of self defense other than to OWN that means and CARRY that means...PERIOD.

Apparently it is a long forgotten fact that ANY law which contradicts the U.S. Consitution/Bill of Rights is to be treated AS THOUGH IT DID NOT EXIST...PERIOD. So ANY law which restricts one's means of self defense, whether it be pepper spray, a knife, escrima sticks or a firearm (OF ANY TYPE), is an ILLEGAL law, which is, therefore UNENFORCEABLE!!

My apologies to you LEOs, but the truth hurts, so I apologize for the severe pain this must have caused. It IS the truth...PERIOD. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Very Sincerely,

Simon.

Starpower
October 17, 2004, 10:18 PM
Ok, Simon, what is crystaline clear(is it crystaline meth?) in a pure world, in a pure society, you do have a valid point, but the truth is, in the real world, there are hundreds throughout the country doing three to five or more, screaming every minute, "It ain't illegal!! It ain't enforceable!! I ain't really here!!! It all depends on which world you choose to live in. The real one, or the beautiful perfect one where birds sing and flowers bloom, and the sun always shines. But then, in that world, you don't really NEED a gun do you?

Snake Eyes
October 17, 2004, 10:39 PM
AZ, WA, NV, NH.

According to the "License Tool" at packing.org (http://www.packing.org/), that covers me for carry in 29 states.

"Simon76" & "Molon Labe": I used to be an idealist too. Good luck in court.

...obtained my 18 USC 926C (d) (2) (B) credential shortly after 'W' signed HR218 so I won't have to renew any of them and will now be good in HI...
Man that just flat out pisses me off. Not at the people who qualify under HR218, mind you. Just at the governement division of classes. I guess I'm still an idealist at heart.

psyopspec
October 18, 2004, 01:27 AM
ND (home state) and NH

schizrade
October 18, 2004, 01:36 AM
:fire: See my location and take a wild guess.... I'm not one of the lucky 10 in the county.

JimC
October 18, 2004, 01:57 AM
Anybody got any links on stats for the effective date? Was it effective immediately, or more waiting?

H.R. 218 or now Public Law 108-277 became effective immediately upon GWB's signature on I believe 22July2004.

Simon, in a perfect society, you may have a point. In the real world, which we live in like it or not, your attitude and intended actions will only get your butt locked up.

In a time like this when so many people are trying to get CCW passed for all, people like you only make it harder. Law makers don't want to hear your poistion, it worries them as does it me. :rolleyes:

Simon76
October 18, 2004, 08:24 AM
Starpower: What I posted isn't "my idea" of a "perfect world", it is FACT. And I'm GLAD you said what you did..."Good luck in court." THERE'S the problem, and WE THE PEOPLE are SUPPOSED TO REMOVE THOSE IDIOTS AND SOCIALISTS/ACTIVISTS FROM THE BENCH (or any other office)!! YES, BY FORCE IF NECCESSARY!!

GET MY POINT? (Not bloody likely.).

Simon.

P.S. - Which of the Founding Fathers, do you think, would disagree with me? (Some brief research on this should illustrate the difference between the way it WAS and was MEANT TO BE, and the way it has become.).

Molon Labe
October 18, 2004, 08:26 AM
"Simon76" & "Molon Labe": I used to be an idealist too. Good luck in court.So many gun owners are fond of saying "From my cold dead hands." They claim they have a natural/inalienable right to keep and bear arms, and that the government is a servant to the people, not the other way around. But their actions reveal their true beliefs. Claiming to believe in inalienable rights and getting a CCW permit is like claiming to be a vegetarian and eating a juicy steak. Or claiming to be a Catholic and getting an abortion.

SkyDaver
October 18, 2004, 08:42 AM
Simon76 and Molon Labe, I have to disagree. I'm not willing to go all or nothing on re-gaining gun rights. I'm not willing to risk all that I've worked for, nor to put my family through the hassle of fighting for my 2nd Amendment rights in a court of law. There are lots of people with guns and badges that will make my life hell if caught breaking some of these laws.

I would like to say that I have the fortitude to get arrested for violating an unconstitutional law, and to fight it to the point where the Supremes grant ceritori, or not, but I don't. If you do, more power to you. Let me know when it happens.

I am willing to fight for my rights with the soapbox, ballot box, jury box. By going through the CCW process, we marginalize the nut job gun grabbers, and whittle away at their claims.

And, with respect, Molon Labe, I think you have it backwards. Claiming that your 2nd amendment rights are inalienable, and getting a CCW is more like being a carnivore, but eating tofu when the cost of steak is too high ;-)

Simon76
October 18, 2004, 09:09 AM
I am willing to fight for my rights with the soapbox, ballot box, jury box.

You forgot the most important of the box-style voting tools: The cartridge box.

You're a sheep, plain and simple. Sorry to have to tell you that, but between every line on your post all I heard was Baaahhhh, Baahhhh, Baaahhhh!!.

May your chains rest lightly upon you.

Simon.

(I suspect the carnivore is eating tofu because he LET someone KICK his teeth out, and that's about ALL he can eat. Or all his blessed Socialist World Order will LET HIM eat.).

SkyDaver
October 18, 2004, 10:32 AM
I am moderately sure that I was not insulting in my post. If I was, I apologize, right here. That was not my intent.

We agree on the ultimate goal, but disagree on the tactics for getting there. That's OK by me.

Now, here's what would have been insulting.

<incoherent rant>
So, Simon76, when are you going to get yourself arrested for illegal CCW so that you can get all of the gunlaws in the country overturned?

What, you haven't done it yet? Oh, I guess you must be a coward.
</incoherent rant>

Igloodude
October 18, 2004, 11:33 AM
Expired CCW in Alaska (because I moved to Vermont), now current resident CCW in NH, and looking around to see how to get a non-resident one in Mass. I might get a FL non-resident one soon as well, but it isn't a priority.

Molon Labe
October 18, 2004, 12:01 PM
SkyDaver: If you want to get a CCW permit, fine. But do not claim you have a right to keep and bear arms. From here on out, you must insist it is a privilege, not a right. Also, do not claim you will "fight for freedom" when the balloon goes up. If you do not have the courage to stand up to these minor infringements on our liberty, you certainly won't have the courage to fight when we’re up against full-scale tyranny.

I'm not willing to risk all that I've worked for, nor to put my family through the hassle of fighting for my 2nd Amendment rights in a court of law. There are lots of people with guns and badges that will make my life hell if caught breaking some of these laws.We should all get down on our knees and thank God the minutemen of 1776 did not share your attitude.

Molon Labe
October 18, 2004, 12:09 PM
So, Simon76, when are you going to get yourself arrested for illegal CCW so that you can get all of the gunlaws in the country overturned?

What, you haven't done it yet? Oh, I guess you must be a coward.Only an idiot would make it their goal to get arrested (e.g. Rick Stanley). A courageous person will simply (and peacefully) ignore unconstitutional & immoral laws.

SkyDaver
October 18, 2004, 01:03 PM
Molon Labe,

Are you willing and prepared to suffer the consequences if you get caught violated the laws that we both agree are unconstitutional and immoral?

What are you doing to get them overturned?

Any chances you can continue this discussion without insults?

Only an idiot would take on superior force head on. Getting these laws overturned requires maneuver warfare, not set piece battles.

Read Sun-Tzu, and Robert Boyd.

Simon76,

Have you seen enough support that you're ready to answer the call of the minutemen? There needs to be a certain critical mass of support .... just like there was in 1775.

You have no idea what I will do if the balloon goes up. To read your descriptions, the balloon is up. Why aren't you out there fighting?

Last time I checked, the minutemen were not alone. They may have been outnumbered, but not alone.

Molon Labe
October 18, 2004, 02:49 PM
Are you willing and prepared to suffer the consequences if you get caught violated the laws that we both agree are unconstitutional and immoral?Of course. For more information, go to www.dictionary.com and look up the word "courage".

What are you doing to get them overturned?The usual... I’m a lifetime member of the GOA, I write my representatives, etc. etc. etc.

Any chances you can continue this discussion without insults?To insult is "to treat with gross insensitivity, insolence, or contemptuous rudeness." Please point out where I've treated you with gross insensitivity, insolence, or contemptuous rudeness.

Only an idiot would take on superior force head on.Tell that to the Vietnamese.

SkyDaver
October 18, 2004, 03:49 PM
To insult is "to treat with gross insensitivity, insolence, or contemptuous rudeness." Please point out where I've treated you with gross insensitivity, insolence, or contemptuous rudeness.

Your posts of 11:01, and 11:09 qualify.

Tell that to the Vietnamese.

I'm not a student of the Vietnam war, but I didn't think that the Viet Cong or North Vietnamese engaged directly very often, and I didn't think that they did very well when they did.

SkyDaver: If you want to get a CCW permit, fine. But do not claim you have a right to keep and bear arms. From here on out, you must insist it is a privilege, not a right. Also, do not claim you will "fight for freedom" when the balloon goes up. If you do not have the courage to stand up to these minor infringements on our liberty, you certainly won't have the courage to fight when we’re up against full-scale tyranny.

I know that I don't have the resources to get through a court fight. Lacking those resources, I know I would fail, and gun owners would not have received any benefit from a quixotic stand.

You have chosen your risk, and I have chosen mine.

You may have the last word. I'll no longer participate in this thread.

Please tell us when your all or nothing approach gets one of these laws overturned.

mountainclmbr
October 18, 2004, 11:23 PM
I personally don't like the situation where law-abiding citizens have to get a "permit" to carry CCW, but the crooks are assumed to carry and get light sentence increases for having a firearm in the commission of a crime. I am sure I would get a longer sentence being a non-convict and non license holder than a criminal that has a concealed weapon. It is the government expectations and it is wrong.

I got a permit because I don't want to face the consequences of not having one and being caught. I don't morally disagree with those that CCW anyway. I just don't agree that I have given up my future rights because I got a permit. Liberty has been swinging in the wrong direction for many years. It seems to have turned around (see VT and AK) and is swinging in the other direction. When the time is right, the second ammendment should be reworded and the constitution ammended to show very clearly that the Bill of Rights strictly limits government power and any politicians that tread on individual rights are under certain threat of a life prison sentence or worse for treason. That is my rant for tonight. Good night all.

S_O_Laban
October 19, 2004, 12:38 AM
Sorry to break up the current thread hijack.....

I live in a state (MO) that is shall issuse but I am unable to get a licence because the county I live in has refused to comply with the law becuase of a technicality on funding. Thus I have two OOS permits which are valid here in Mo... PA and FL, G-d bless them:D

Edward429451
October 19, 2004, 02:05 AM
I'm with Molon Labe and Simon on this one. Never had it, never will. It's just a matter of resolve. Everyone knows its correct, people draw their lines in the sand in different places.

Maybe the nation will go the way of AK or VT. Fat chance. What if it doesn't? There'll be more lines drawn then. Some of us here will turn them in when they say to and some of us wont. Some will continue to scoff at us constitutional purists, some will stand with us.

We're all in this together though. We shouldn't beat on each other over it. There sure is a lot of division here on the so called high road. I find it odd that us types who ccw quasi illeagally and state our position get taken to task for it, and yet when the leo's get on here and ha-ha I can carry anywhere cuz I'm leo...literally laughing in your faces...no one finds anythng wrong with that...Hmmm. I sense a wrongness there.

Divide and conquer is almost complete.

SkyDaver
October 19, 2004, 08:25 AM
Edward429451 wrote:
We're all in this together though. We shouldn't beat on each other over it. There sure is a lot of division here on the so called high road. I find it odd that us types who ccw quasi illeagally and state our position get taken to task for it, and yet when the leo's get on here and ha-ha I can carry anywhere cuz I'm leo...literally laughing in your faces...no one finds anythng wrong with that...Hmmm. I sense a wrongness there.

I had intended to stay out of this, but Edward's post was too reasonable to let pass.

I never intended to excoriate anyone who choses NOT to get the CCW permit, but carries anyway. You make your choice, and more power to you. My choice was to try to push back a bit at a time, and getting the permit was a push.

I agree with Edward very much about the LEO nationwide carry. I resent that they get this, and I can't recall any LEO or retired LEO writing anything to the effect of "Good, now we can work on getting nationwide carry for everyone"

I did not speak up against it, however, having decided that it could be another incremental push back.

aguyindallas
October 19, 2004, 08:53 AM
Texas CHL, carrying daily.

I am considering picking up another state so I can carry while in Ohio.

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