Has California opened Pandora Box?


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Mark in California
September 19, 2004, 01:04 AM
I was working around the house, and I had a thought, has California opened Pandora Box? They added on to the assault weapons ban to ban the 50 Cal. They did not write a separate law. The new law adds to and modifies the old law or laws. So does this allow us to use this to our advantage?

I, like many others, have an AR-15 parked out of state. It mine, but I cannot bring it home until the laws change. But it is still mine.

However, if I bought a 50 Cal upper, and then registered AR-15 as a 50 caliber, and the state issues paperwork on it, I should be able to bring it home. Maybe??? I know a Colt is banned by name, but doesn’t this change the rules and allow us to “in a timely manner” register a newly listed “assault weapon”. I am sure it works in reverse, someone who has a registered assault weapon that just happens to be a 50 cal will now have to re-register that weapon because now the caliber has become a banned element.

Final questions, could you put a serial number on the upper, and just register the upper. What is the state going to do with AR type weapons that have the ability to change caliber by changing the upper receiver and not with the registered receiver?

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Subliminal One
September 19, 2004, 02:12 AM
This has been a good topic for debate the past week or so.

(1) Despite the wording of AB50, we're still not sure if it is a stand-alone law or simply an amendment to existing laws. Why does the bill constantly refer to existing AW laws throughout?

(2) It specifically says that you can't register an AW. How can you register something that you're not allowed to legally possess within the state in the first place? So in your case, it would be 100% illegal to register your Colt. What remains to be seen is whether you can register a non-AW, then add assault features after registration. This all depends on what class of weapon the DOJ defines the 50.

(3) We're all assuming that currently registered AWs can be re-registered as 50 cal rifles. Basically, you'll now carry around two DOJ registrations as you mentioned.

Hand_Rifle_Guy
September 19, 2004, 07:03 AM
(2) It specifically says that you can't register an AW. How can you register something that you're not allowed to legally possess within the state in the first place?

A correction: You ARE allowed to possess AW's legally here. You have to register 'em before x date in order to keep 'em.

You're not allowed to BUY/TRANSFER them here. You can't own one that isn't registered. That's why you have to keep proof-of-reg. on hand to present on-demand if neccessary.

You can't IMPORT them into the state. If you did, you would then have to register 'em, but as there's no new registations after x date, that's impossible. If there are no new registrations, those that get sold must go out-of-state, diminishing overall supply.

That's how it works. If you've got one, good on yer. If you registered it, you get to keep it. (LOUSY compliance rate for that, BTW. 10% or so.) But you can't sell/trade/transfer it to somebody living in THIS STATE legally. Since there's supposed to be a background check on all sales here, theoretically DOJ would bounce the sale.

Hmmm. I'm not sure how DOJ's gonna handle this. Background checks for long guns get sent to DOJ with no information about the gun itself, just "long gun". There's no DROS, or Departmental Registration Of Sale, as there is for a handgun, even though the fee is universally referred to as the DROS fee. How are they supposed to know whether a given sales check refers to an AW or not?

I guess they don't, just like the hi-cap. mag restriction. It basically hands enforcement of such details to dealers. Which simply creates a black market, instantly. This means that the 90% of unregistered AW's will theoretically diminish as they are detected and confiscated by LE. That of course won't happen to the magazines, as they're not numbered, and can't be tracked. (That's probably why nobody I know pays a whole lot of attention to the mag transfer restriction. It's patently un-enforceable outside of some kind of sting operation. However, right on the face of it that just means that THAT silly law made most casual gun owners into casual criminals. Way to make less crime, legiscritters, good show! Idiots. But this IS the PRK, after all. What could one expect?)

Ultimately, as the current owners of registered AW's die off, those guns will move out of state through legal channels until none are left in the state, whereupon THEN it will be illegal to actually just OWN one, as there ARE no "legal" guns left in the state. That's going to be a while.

As for classifying .50's as AW's, I imagine the compliance rate to register 'em going to be as dismal as it was for the regular AW's. All that means is that smart people will simply keep 'em, and stay low-profile with 'em, and our legiscritters have once again manufactured a whole new batch of criminals out of folks who represent what is typically the more law-abiding segment of society.

Anybody want to make a comment in the hubris/hypocrisy of the premise that since AW's are so evil you can't buy 'em here, but it's OK to foist these too-dangerous-to-allow-in-the-hands-of-us-peons, evil, criminal-making, chaos-breeding, revolution-inspiring death-machines off onto the citizens of all the rest of the states in this nation? Too nasty to be allowed to sully the hands of the Advanced And Progressive Inhabitants Of Korny Kaliforny, but it's quite all right to export these Machines Of Crime And Death to the rest of our not-quite-fellow citizens, as naturally, We're Better Than all Of Them, Or At Least More Equal.

Or is it that We're Less Trustworthy with tools that are oh-so-effective at popping arrogant legiscritter's balloons, perhaps? Or so the Gubmint thinks, but would never admit?

Niether possibility inspires pride in one's leaders, really. And the premise that AW's, be they .50's or otherwise, are a significant criminal threat is a bunch of hot air.

Or maybe they just assume that we're a lot stupider than they are. Another inspiring thought, that. Unfortunately, one that I can readily see fitting quite naturally in the mind of the socialeftist legiscritters that get elected in this putrid political miasma we call home.

Hooray for the advance of modern civilization. I'm just beside myself, I'm so underwhelmed by it all.

Gubmint's on borrowed time in this stupid state, mark my words.

rick_reno
September 19, 2004, 09:57 AM
As for classifying .50's as AW's, I imagine the compliance rate to register 'em going to be as dismal as it was for the regular AW's. All that means is that smart people will simply keep 'em, and stay low-profile with 'em, and our legiscritters have once again manufactured a whole new batch of criminals out of folks who represent what is typically the more law-abiding segment of society.

I agree, compliance to register will be dismal. What I would watch out for with this one is DOJ visiting dealers to audit transfers of 50's and then making an example out of a couple of them who didn't register. The numbers of 50 owners is very small compared to the number of AW's and it's a task they could tackle.

50 Shooter
September 19, 2004, 10:49 AM
Rick,
I agree with you, I had this same conversation with a friend who sells .50's yesterday. He said that there's nothing he can do if the ATF comes to his place and asks to see his records. In fact he (being former ATF) said that he almost expects them to show up and search his records because 90% of his sales are .50's. Better to register them and be safe or lose a very large investment.

Sub,
.50's are now part of the AW law here in Kali, with AB50 they added them to it. There's no question about it as it's listed there in the wording. What's truely amazing is that a bolt action rifle is now an assault rifle and a foreigner who came to our country to enjoy our freedoms/rights has now taken them away!

El Rojo
September 19, 2004, 11:25 AM
Does the ATF usually come around and enforce state laws like that? I would think they had a hard enough time keeping up with their own laws to enforce.

50 Shooter
September 19, 2004, 12:31 PM
El Rojo,
Here's the way he explained it to me, the state of ********** probably figures that there are five thousand .50's (example) in the state. Let's say that only 100 get registered, now they tell their agents to go to dealers and start looking. From there they come directly to you, if you have an unregistered .50 then your busted. Sucks don't it?!

Pilgrim
September 19, 2004, 01:08 PM
Does the ATF usually come around and enforce state laws like that? I would think they had a hard enough time keeping up with their own laws to enforce.

Part of BATF's marching orders is to ensure FFL compliance with state laws.

The PDRK Dept. of Justice has its own firearms enforcement division. They can come in after ATF and run the same inspection. Every FFL doing business in the PDRK has to have a Certificate of Eligibility issued by PDRK DOJ. To get a COE the gun shop owner has to have a valid FFL, a state resale sales tax number, a letter issued by the city or county saying that the owner is in compliance with all zoning laws and local ordinances to do business, etc.

The gun shop owner pays for the privilege of having his premises inspected by PDRK DOJ through his COE application and renewal fees.

Pilgrim

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