Post from the FiringLine.com about Wilson Combat


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cerberus
September 19, 2004, 05:37 PM
This from the FiringLine Forum.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150277

Quote:

Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies VERY BAD Customer Service!!!!
I will try to make this short and to the point.I'm not posting this to force a resolution.I have given them two opportunties to correct the problem,in which all I met with was reluctance and rudeness.To make a long story short I sent my Brand new Remington 870HD to Wilson Combat for their Remington Steal Package with Trak lock sights and armor tuff finish.Not including the shipping charges this was incredibly expensive at a cost of about $450.00.In the advertisement for this package they fail to mention that they utilize the brand new "take-off" parts from the express guns they purchase from Remington and build their combat shotguns.Well the Remington Steal Package rebuild is a seperate issue to my main complaint here.So I won't write a lengthy statment on that subject,although they screwed me on that issue in addition to the following.The biggest problem is they refused to warranty a defective finish.My father and I went to the range 1-2 weeks after getting by gun back from Wilson.After we cleaned our guns.I was using a brand of gun scrubber and some gun solvent(Eezox) There was a small pool of liquid at the end of the barrel and magazine extension that I wiped dry with a cotton rag.To my suprise the finish started coming off.Similar to how paint would react to paint remover,just to give you a mental picture.When I looked at the mag tube,it was bare metal,there was no parkerizing under the Gun Kote finish that is part of the process.This Armor-Tuff finish was anything but "tuff" This is the same finish they advertize as being able to withstand 24hour submersion in gasoline hydrochloric acid and other strong chemicals.For those that do not know Armor-Tuff is comprised of parkerizing the parts and then spraying them with what in reality is Gun Kote and then curing the finish with heat.Well,I don't know what happend to mine,not properly prepped?bad batch of Gun Kote? No parkerizing?Apparantly!Somone forgot a step or two?Frankly what went wrong is their problem to figure out.Well,I e-mail them and ask them to pick-up the gun via courier on their dime and refinish my gun just in parkerizing alone and refund the difference in the finish costs between parkerized and "armor tuff" price,about a $125.00 difference.At this point the finish does not impress me,I do not need any further or future incoviences,so my request is more than fair.To redo the finish it has to be reparkerized anyhow.Well after having my gun for several days.Here is the in what my opinion is a rude response I got from Wilson Combat.I just love the part when they accuse me of using something "abrasive" on the finish.Why don't you just call me a liar after I explained in detail the circumstances surrounding the finish problem!


Dear Ralph,
We have looked over your gun, and we will be shipping it back to you today. Per my supervisor "It looks like he took an abrasive to it, which is not covered under warranty." We have done you a service and payment will not be reimbursed. I know you felt the job should have been done with Wilson parts, it says clearly in the catalog "Remington Steal" We are not going to parkerize the gun either, this is not cost effective for our company. I will apologize for you being the 1 out of 100% that is not happy with our work, and suggest that you find a company you will be happy with.

Sincerely
Mary

PS. If you have any further inquires please refer them to johnm@wilsomcombat.com

I called the so called "Supervisor" who was worthless after speaking with him for 20 minutes,he offered no resolution and only demanded that I e-mail him all the e-mail correspondance.The e-mails we exchanged have no bearing on the issue.He said,we have never had this happen before.He also stated it was not a simple matter,that the gun sights would be destroyed in refinishing the gun.So apparantly I was suppose to give them 450.00 for this work to be done,have the finish come off with regular gun cleaning chemicals.Then go out and have somone else fix their mistake at my cost of refinishing and eating the cost of the new Trak-lock sights expense because they find themselves in the unique position of never having to warranty their finish before.A simple apology and offer to fix the problem would have been acceptable.Now since they have decided to steal money from me and not abide by their own warranty and customer service creed,I have disputed the credit card charge,and will be posting my experiences on all the boards and report them to the BBB as time permits.They really blew it,and added insult upon injury.I recommend anyone contemplating doing business with this company consider utilizing your money with a company that doesn't make false claims about the products,and the refuses to make good on their warranty.
R.Swanno
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orangeninja
September 19, 2004, 05:47 PM
That is interesting. I don't know about how professional a response that email was...shrugging blame on the supervisor. Hmmm...maybe someone has more to say.

manwithoutahome
September 19, 2004, 05:59 PM
Their guns are overpriced so why wouldn't you think that their service and customer service wouldn't be the same.

Can't have sympathy for you here, you bought it, you deal with it.

A good Kimber or Springfield would have served you better, with better customer service.

You don't always get what you pay for.

Wayne

Lone_Gunman
September 19, 2004, 06:06 PM
Manwithoutahome wins the award for today's most irrelevant comment.


Kimber and Springfield don't make shotguns.

I guess he just commented without reading the post.

WT
September 19, 2004, 06:20 PM
I read the various threads. I will reserve my opinion. I hear only one side of the story here.

That said, I have had successful dealings with Wilson.

manwithoutahome
September 19, 2004, 06:27 PM
Lone_Gunman,

You are right. Every time that I read about Wilson Combat I think of the 1911's and forget about the shotguns.

Hey, take it easy on me okay :).

But, they are still overpriced and for what you pay for I think that you get the raw end of the deal.

Wayne

Et Spiritus Sancti
September 19, 2004, 07:01 PM
Is it just me, or do 90% of all complaints you see on gun boards come from those that are near illiterate; where you can barely even UNDERSTAND their complaint?

theCZ
September 19, 2004, 07:13 PM
If you are really serious about having the issue resolved, contact the CEO or company owner directly. I went to HP's world hq "visitor center" and was treated rudely by the receptionists, so I sent an email to Carly Fiora's secretary explaining what happened, I was contacted shortly thereafter and experienced a hearty apology.

I also had a bad experience with Dell Computers and Airborne Express so I snooped around and found Michael Dell's email and sent him a nicely worded complaint letter.

Most important thing is to be proffessional, and write the letter as if the person made a mistake and was not intentionally being rude.

TarpleyG
September 19, 2004, 07:27 PM
Wilson Combat products and customer service have steadily been circling the drain for a few years now. I guess they have officially gone down the drain at this point. Not a single person that I shoot with on a regular basis will buy anything from them except the occasional mag or other part (McCormick's mags for me please). No one has a shotgun, AR, or 1911 from them that I am aware of.

Greg

sendec
September 19, 2004, 07:51 PM
Boy, I'd like to see how this concludes. When Scattergun was on it's own I had nothing but positive experiences with them. I have an 870 that is in line to go for a rebuild......

I really dont know the value of posts like these. We are only seeing one side and a very small portion of another. I'm not inclined to lend too much credence without full disclosure, so to speak.

cerberus
September 19, 2004, 08:02 PM
Is to give people a chance to obtain information that others have posted on the Net. I have no way of knowing if the post is factual but also no way of knowing if it's not factual. I do feel people have the right to view and make up thier own minds about just what the real facts about Wilson Combats shotgun service policies really are. :) :rolleyes:

Lone_Gunman
September 19, 2004, 08:10 PM
Et Spiritus Sancti,

what part of the problem did you not understand?

Et Spiritus Sancti
September 19, 2004, 09:51 PM
The point was that people write out these rambling non formatted whines that are hard to follow. When you can't even be professional enough to throw it into Word, I don't tend to believe the person over the company.

faustulus
September 19, 2004, 10:13 PM
The point was that people write out these rambling non formatted whines that are hard to follow. When you can't even be professional enough to throw it into Word, I don't tend to believe the person over the company.
so you prefer style over substance?
I would like to hear what wilson says about it, but nothing in his story rings untrue (doesn't mean he isn't lying, but I am not going to assume that). I have heard other problems with Wilson and the attitude the company takes. In any case he was just telling people his experince and letting others decide for themselves. That is what that part of TFL is for.

Highland Ranger
September 19, 2004, 10:13 PM
Wasn''t this also posted here in its own thread?

ScottsGT
September 19, 2004, 10:58 PM
I've read a similar complaint about one of their 1911's. I'll never use them. Well, mainly because their just too expensive in my opinion.
Sorry about all your problems, hope things work out for the best.

Harold Mayo
September 19, 2004, 11:05 PM
Sounds like they just didn't bake the finish on the guy's shotgun. The finish holds up to solvents if it is baked. If it isn't, it will come off as described.

Muzzleflash
September 19, 2004, 11:08 PM
Yeah. I read the post about the botched 1911- the pics he posted showed an ATROCIOUS job.

Et Spiritus Sancti
September 20, 2004, 02:25 AM
I prefer a complaint that can actually be read. Companies have to be professional, customers don't. But if a customer is unsatisfied and writes out a complaint backwoods hillbilly style, instead of taking more than 2 minutes to put out a thoughtful comment; I tend to not care either way what they say.

2nd Amendment
September 20, 2004, 02:57 AM
*shrug*

Not everyone writes well. Considering some of what I have come across from products of the public school system this fellow is actually not too bad. :) Regardless, if Wilson screwed up the shotgun that badly, and I've heard similar tales which make me tend to believe it, their lousy service is much more important than any poor writing skills of the customer.

Tharg
September 20, 2004, 03:09 AM
I think what ET was saying was thus.

Returns and spaces between paragraphs are necessary to break up the text and give credence to different points.

I find large run-on paragraphs very hard to read - since your eye has a harder time tracking through those kind of paragraphs/sentences.

Still - i forged through the post - and if thats what happend - extremely rude - and i'm sorry you go that kind of service. Never had the opportunity/cash to send off one of my guns for a "treatment" or "accurizing" or anything - but i thought wilson combat was meant to be one of the better ones? This is wrong?

Either way - take care and sorry it happened bub.

J/Tharg!

2nd Amendment
September 20, 2004, 03:15 AM
Oh I wasn't disagreeing with what ET was saying about the writing. He's right. I HATE wading through run-on paragraphs and punctuation-free meanderings. Still, the meaning is there and it is understandable. And in customer service you deal with a LOT worse. Part of the job is deciphering stuff like that. It just seemed like he is discounting the validity of the problem because of the writing. Maybe he was just discounting his own interest in the subject and not Wilson's.

Et Spiritus Sancti
September 20, 2004, 03:20 AM
Yes, not everyone has good grammar. But like I said in my original post; it seems that this is the case in 90% of complaints I see on gun boards. When we can't even do basic grammar and punctuation, how does anyone expect pro-gun people to be taken seriously? If I got some rambling garbage like what I see half the time, I'd send it right to the trash.

2nd Amendment
September 20, 2004, 03:31 AM
It's pretty consistent across the board in customer complaints. Not just gun related topics. I think most of us on forums of all kinds become a little spoiled at the quality of writing generally present. It's almost always, even at its worst, far better than what you see in most correspondence.

forquidder
September 20, 2004, 03:47 AM
Et Spiritus Sancti-monius,

A couple things about them thar' "backwoods hillbillies"; you can almost always count on them to be gun people.
They're also the guys picking up the slack and walking point when the wars break out. ;)

Lone_Gunman
September 20, 2004, 08:34 AM
But like I said in my original post; it seems that this is the case in 90% of complaints I see on gun boards.


Et Spiritus Sancti,

That quote from you is punctuated incorrectly. The semi-colon is inappropriately used. It should be a comma.

I figured you would want to know since you are such a stickler for correct grammar.

TheDutchman
September 20, 2004, 10:12 AM
Use this Smith in the future
http://www.yost-bonitz.com/


pics of there work
http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/viewtopic.php?t=305

SunBear
September 20, 2004, 11:33 AM
Folks: In the future, those of you w/o an English major, keep your whiny complaints to yourself! :neener: This will make it easier on the rest of us. :evil: Get over it!!!:barf:

SunBear
September 20, 2004, 11:33 AM
3clicks = 3posts. Sorry

SunBear
September 20, 2004, 11:33 AM
3 clicks = 3 posts. Sorry.

Jmurman
September 20, 2004, 11:50 AM
Good customer service should have just taken care of the product. PERIOD!

Thanks for the post.

wingman
September 20, 2004, 12:07 PM
Not taking a stand on this either way however I would like to warn all
that some gun cleaning products are tough on plastics and finish, much
of it I wont use on "modern" guns. All I want to say is read those labels.

Mikul
September 20, 2004, 12:23 PM
I know two people who purchased Wilson 1911's over the last year. The first was a Tactical Super Grade (yea, the cheap $3,200 model). It came with a 2 pound trigger. He shipped it back. They fixed it. The grip safety now had a 5 pound pull. He was about to send it back until a gunsmith friend found a burr on the grip safety and fixed it no charge.

The other was a custom model with 30lpi checkering on the frontstrap, GI safety, no beavertail, and standard mag release. It showed up six months later with 20 lpi checkering, extended safety, beavertail, and extended mag release. They tried to tell him that he ordered it that way. He faxed them the order sheet, and they finally capitulated. Problem: the frames won't be machined again for three months, so he'll have to wait another 4-5 months to get the new gun.

They are standing by their products, but they're screwing up a lot too. If this was a $500 Springfield, I could defend it, but when you charge at least $1,800 for a handgun you should expect it to be right the first time.

telcom911
September 20, 2004, 12:25 PM
Kimber makes a half dozen shotgun models, here is mine:

From Kimber America-

http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/shotguns/sporting.jpg

Lone_Gunman
September 20, 2004, 02:53 PM
telcom911,

The 870 is a pump.

Tag
September 20, 2004, 03:30 PM
All grammatical error aside, you should not attack the validity of this mans claim based on his spelling abilities...

goon
September 20, 2004, 04:06 PM
The point was that people write out these rambling non formatted whines that are hard to follow. When you can't even be professional enough to throw it into Word, I don't tend to believe the person over the company

Grammar doesn't have much to do with the truth. Just because John Kerry can use big words, does that mean that you are going to vote for him?

Anyhow, what happened to this guy sucks. Never dealt with Wilson but I believe this. I know a guy who did work for them. He got fired for pointing out deficiencies in their procedures that led to longer turn around times and for suggesting ways to improve customer service.
I met this ex-employee working at a local gun shop and he invited me to go shooting with him. I have been friends with him for about five years now, and the man doesn't lie. If that is the type of company Wilson Combat is, I will spend my money on SIG, Browning, and other guns that don't have to be custom built to work.

Kilroy
September 20, 2004, 05:14 PM
I had a very bad experience with Wilson's over their Remington Steal package. Previously, I had a large number of Remington 870s rebuilt by Scattergun Technology and was quite happy with their work. Those rebuilt guns are coming up on ten years of service with not one problem.

Shortly after SGT was bought up by Wilson, I changed employment and had even more 870s to have worked on, plus, was responsible for assisting agencies in finding this service. I sent an aging 870 to Wilson for their "Remington Steal" and was quite unhappy with the results. I got back a strange looking barrel and no longer had a magazine cap with sling stud. The replacement butt stock had no provision for a stud either.

After calling to complain, I was sent a wood screw type stud to "just screw into the side of the stock somewhere" and a stamped metal plate that went over the tube and under the cap, to make a loop for a sling. This would obsolete the detachable swivel and types of sling I had in stock.
Combine this with a surly attitude and I realized the rest of the 870s in the armory were not going to Wilson's and my instructor association made this a discussion point in one of our quarterly meetings.

nvrquit
September 20, 2004, 05:29 PM
Could Wilson and EAA have any type of co-operative training arrangement for their QC and CS staffs?

Et Spiritus Sancti
September 20, 2004, 06:30 PM
Apparently some here are too inept to get my point. Forget it. I didn't expect I'd get a much better response.

Tag
September 20, 2004, 06:44 PM
Apparently some here are too inept to get my point. Forget it. I didn't expect I'd get a much better response.

I guess I don't understand your point; the literacy level of the man making the complaint has nothing to do with the validity of the argument.

logic 101

fistful
September 20, 2004, 06:50 PM
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I heard once that some guys weren't very well served by Wilson Combat.

forquidder
September 20, 2004, 06:52 PM
Yeah, us'ins can be a little slow around here. ;)

Tag
September 20, 2004, 06:55 PM
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I heard once that some guys weren't very well served by Wilson Combat. :D

that's not a hijack, it sounds like WC's service is in the toilet.

confinedbythecurtain
September 20, 2004, 07:05 PM
I agree with THECZ, go to the top and be professional and polite. The head honcho will likely respond to a well worded letter than a pissed off rant. Regardless, I hope they resolve your problem in the end, I dont wanna see a mans weapon messed with!

Lone_Gunman
September 20, 2004, 09:07 PM
Apparently some here are too inept to get my point. Forget it. I didn't expect I'd get a much better response.

Have you considered Dale Carnegie?

Wayne D
September 20, 2004, 09:34 PM
Does Bill Wilson even own the company anymore? I'm sure it's too big now for him to be running the daily operations but I was just wondering if he was still involved.

robert sherman
September 21, 2004, 01:29 AM
I had to return a new Wilson pistol twice for warranty work at my own shipping expense. They performed expensive repairs. I did include a letter to Bill Wilson asking him to give my pistol his personal attention(reasonable, I think, since this was the second time the pistol had to be returned). I never heard from Mr Wilson.

I really don't think Wilsons is a big company. I bet Mr Wilson knows every employee.

ssr
September 21, 2004, 03:00 PM
Well, I don't care about the run-on paragraph. It's a little harder to read, but, I still get it.

Since this is becoming a "complain about Wilson" thread, here's a dealing I had with them a couple years back:

I sent them a pistol to have some work done. When it arrived I got a call from a salesman asking what type of finish I wanted (I hadn't specified). I said all black armor-tuff. This was about 430 pm. I thought about it overnight and decided I wanted gray/black two-tone. (This was when the gray/black, green/black two tones were becoming bigger). So I called again first thing in the morning when they opened, at 900 am or so. The salesman said, "I don't know, it's already been sent to the smiths. I'll see what I can do".

So I waited and a few months later my pistol showed up, I opened it up, expecting the two-tone gray/black that I asked for, but it was all black, not the two-tone I called back for and requested. Obviously the guy couldn't even walk over to the smiths, or call them, and say, "hey the guy wants this finish, not that". :rolleyes: I don't really mind now, though, since I am glad it is all black and not the two-tone. But it was just wrong that the guy couldn't even let the smiths know about the change, before they even had done anything!

Waitone
September 21, 2004, 03:07 PM
Reading the posts, it appears to me Wilson has had a change in upper level management or the removal of a key member of management. Far too many business systems are failing. Quality just doesn't fail, business system fail usually for personnel reasons.

Possible possibles
--CEO changed?
--CEO out on medical and left no one in charge
--CEO is a control freak and is threatened by good help
--Operations manager changed
--Marketing says screw the little guy, we're going for LE business
--One of John Edwards' buds filed suit against Wilson for environmental crime and everyone is busting butt to get rid of offending chemicals before the trial.

Organizations fall apart for reasons. Looks to me like Wilson has a problem in the executive suite that needs to be fixed.

bogie
September 21, 2004, 07:17 PM
Someone paid $450 to have their shotgun painted tactical black, and then got aggravated when it came off?

Paint it again. I think that Brownell's sells some nice stuff.

Amish_Bill
September 21, 2004, 10:09 PM
One of my shooting buddies got a Wilson CQB. It shot to one side. (you could see one of the sights was off-center) Two other people at the range had CQBs too. (it was the semi-official .45 of the group) They swapped guns around and the crooked shooting followed the gun, not the shooter.

When he called Wilson to have it taken care of, he was basically told he didn't know how to shoot. He sent it back in and when it was returned, he was told that there was no problem. The sight was still off center and it was still shooting sideways. He called back and was told that there was nothing wrong with his pistol again. I seem to recall that he got so pissed with them that he wound up using a dowel and a hammer to knock the sight back to where it should be.

I was looking ot buy a CQB. After that, I'm looking at Kimber Tacticals. 95% of the gun, 50% of the price.

harpethriver
September 22, 2004, 01:13 AM
ESS-your remarks are at best elitist. I'll bet you're the one that was always raising his hand in class to tell on his misbehaving classmates. :neener:

444
September 22, 2004, 01:32 AM
A friend of mine (one of the moderators on Bladeforums) bought a shotgun from scatterguns technology and it didn't work out of the box. He had to send it back. It worked then but it left a bad taste in his mouth.
This was a couple years ago and I don't remember what exactly was wrong with it.

jetman
September 22, 2004, 08:28 PM
I have a Wilson SDS pistol, like it's finish, and recently sent my AR15 upper in for a coating or Grey Armor Tuff that closely matches the older pre-ban Colt grey lower I have. It looks TONS better than the old black over grey 2-tone look. I sent my upper to them parkerized, and my finish is really perfect. I've used solvent on mine several times with no problems at all. It's probably the parkerizing like you mentioned. I'm definitely NOT happy to hear your bad dealings with Wilson, and hope I don't have to try and take advantage of my "Lifetime Warranty" on my SDS.

The Last Confederate
September 23, 2004, 02:36 PM
Wilson is crap, and WAY overpriced for what they give you. Vangcomp and/or Robar are MUCH MUCH better in terms of price, value, and customer service.

Check this out, I bought Robar's rogaurd + NP3 finish on my shotgun. The finish is excellent and has held up very well with little/no wear on parts. Later on, when I wanted to add a side saddle, I asked them if they would coat the screws in NP3 to match the guns finish, they did this and at NO CHARGE to me!! Later, when a part broke, they also refinished the replacement part for me at NO CHARGE!

Lately, I had some questions about possibly refinishing the barrel (since the ports near the muzzle have started to take the finish off of the vent rib). They said,

"No problem! Send it on over, and we'll refinish it for you at no charge!"

All this, and at less of a cost than Wilson's ripoff joke finish.


Why send a gun to Wilson when they don't even improve the performance of the shotgun anyway? Vangcomp will make your gun pattern tighter, kick less, AND shrink slug groups! Plus he will add ghost ring sights, metal parts, etc if you want.

My advice is, if you want to improve your shotgun's performance, send the gun off to Vang. If you want to get the best finish possible, send it off to robar. And if you want to do both, than send it to both! Vang will even send the gun to robar for you if you want his services too (which is what I did). You will not regret buying service from either of these two great gun companies.

MAUSER88
September 23, 2004, 05:46 PM
Good customer service goes a long way IMHO. They should have refinished your shotgun without a fuss to make you happy. PERIOD.
Too bad many dealers only sell products but have no idea how to sell their business's if you know what I mean. Customer service goes a long way and nothing can hurt your future business worse than a unsatisified customer.

NoScreenName
September 23, 2004, 06:17 PM
The very least they could have done is offer a refinish at a discounted or half price rate...

I think that would have been a decent compromise by both sides...


I have run into similar problems in other product arenas and been offered that same deal and while it's not 100% satisfying it was an acceptable compromise I felt...

While this is total speculation, as I have always felt that Wilson''s was overpriced, perhaps the problem with them is that Mr Wilson actually spent a great deal of time building up the name over the years to what it is now and has taken a somewhat less active role in the operation and it is run by people who don't have such a stake in the company's reputation and doing right by customers...

Honestly, I wouldn't have bought any of their products or services before but this doesn't really add to their image in my mind...

I thank the original poster for sharing the story...


I think it was a wise choice disputing the charge with the CC company... those people are wicked and do their jobs well... Wilson's will wish they had offered a better resolution after the CC company gets done with them...

springfieldmaniac
September 24, 2004, 03:21 AM
Et Spiritus Sancti, My apologies to you for offending such a literary genius.In regards to the validity of my post from TFL,I honestly could care less if you believe the post or not.
To the rest of the forum members,please feel free to go to TFL to read the entire thread about my horrible experience with Wilson Combat.Thanks for your support.

Best Regards,R.Swanno

BluesBear
September 24, 2004, 09:06 AM
springfieldmaniac

WELCOME ABOARD!™

I am sorry to hear that you were treated so poorly. Please keep us updated on this.

I know I remember back when Wilson just just a tiny company turning out some great custom work. The recent products I have seen were much less impressive.

I am not slighting their work, it's just that I can't see paying the Dom Perignon price for a Mogen David product.

Personally, I relly like the work I've seen done by this company (http://www.fit4duty.us/) and, based on first hand reports, the next time I need a shotgun reworked they're the ones getting my money.




p.s. High-fives to SunBear. Tell it like it is Brother!

springfieldmaniac
September 24, 2004, 01:39 PM
Thanks for the welcome bluesbear.If you check out the thread on TFL and follow all my posts it gives a more detailed idea of the situation.Thanks!

Otherguy Overby
September 24, 2004, 03:15 PM
I've talked with three smiths in Northern Arkansas who used to work for Wilson.

All of them, stated that there were problems at Wilson.

Buck Snort
October 5, 2004, 05:24 AM
I don't think anybody without a PHd. in English should be allowed to post here so EVERYBODY can understand what he/she is trying to say!!

454c
October 6, 2004, 04:58 AM
Bill Wilson still owns Wilson Combat.NoScreenName has speculated correctly.After the company was established,he put somebody else in charge and started living it up. I hear he still drops by every now and then.

The Real Hawkeye
October 6, 2004, 10:26 AM
I am not at all surprised. I had a very similar experience with Wilson Combat a few years ago, and swore never to deal with them again. I bought a Compact version of the CQB from them. When I ordered it, they said it would take between eight months and a year, as they were back logged at the time. That was fine with me. About six weeks later, I get a call telling me that my CQB was ready for shipment and that they just needed the final payment. I asked how that could be, but the guy on the phone said it just was, without explaining why it was ready so soon when I was told at least eight months. I figured I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth and sent the check.

It arrived at the gun shop, and I came and picked it up. I looked at it in the shop, but it was dark and I was pretty eager to get it home, so I didn't notice the problems till I got it home. First off, the sights were the kind that were standard for the CQB from about two or three years previous. Since then, they had switched to Novak night sights. These had what I think were called "Cat Eye" sights, no longer part of the CQB package by this point. Next thing I noticed was that the finish looked like it had extensive holster wear on all the areas you get wear on a 1911 when it has been regularly carried for about a year. I immediately called them, and they just denied that it could have any wear on the finish, as they claimed the gun was just made brand new for me. Essentially, they were calling me a liar, so I figured I'd send it back and they could see for themselves, along with a note asking that they replace the sights and redo the finish (it looked like a well used gun). They sent it back to me with new sights, but the finish still looked like what you'd expect to see on a veteran carry gun. I called them, and they said the finish was fine, and they would not redo it at their expense.

I think I got a used demo gun. All the evidence is there. First, it was provided at least 6.5 months ahead of schedule. Second, it had the sights that had not been part of the CQB package for over two years by that time. Third, it's finish looked like it had been holstered daily for about a year, all forward corners having exposed metal, and a gradual fade from there to the areas with finish. I had never even holstered or fired the gun. That's the way it came to me. When I complained, their reps essentially laughed at me, as if to say, sue us. I would never buy another Wilson product again, short of a magazine.

Logan5
October 6, 2004, 11:05 AM
Going slightly OT, what's the story with Eezox? The guy who taught my NRA safety course years ago claimed that he used it to lift old finishes when he was refinishing a gun, and that if there were nicks or gaps in the finish Eezox was great at getting in there and taking the finish off.
I remain convinced that a lot of what this particular guy had to say about anything was B.S., and obviously this shouldn't happen with a pricey, brand new finish, but is Eezox really known to do this?

no_morelipfrom_you
October 6, 2004, 11:17 AM
Based on this thread alone I will never deal with wilson

Bwana John
October 6, 2004, 11:57 AM
Based on this thread alone I will never deal with "The Holy Ghost".

Bobster
October 6, 2004, 12:42 PM
I never dealt with Wilson's.
Even if the person was mistreating the surface, Wilson's should have redone the job, and gotten a valued customer.
Wilson also should have tested the chemicals on the gun themselves to see if it was their mistake.
As with alot of companies that start small and build a rep for quality and service, it will go down when the payroll gets bigger. Employees will also leave having their reps and values honed at their employer.
There is never, ever an excuse for treating a customer rudely.

As for Et Spiritus Sancti: Please ride your high horse over to another forum where your need for ego boosting at the expense of others can be appreciated.

BOB

flatrock
October 6, 2004, 01:18 PM
I use Eezox all the time on my guns, and have never had it hurt the finish on any of them.

SunBear
October 7, 2004, 01:53 AM
Blues Bear: Thanks for the kind words. I enjoy your posts.

Fear not. There is nothing to fear for I AM with you. Do not look around you in terror or be dismayed for I AM your God. I will strengthen and harden you to difficulties. Isaiah 41:10 :D

carebear
October 7, 2004, 02:48 AM
That's what happens when the 'name' that built the business goes from "owner/operator" to "beloved founder".

Now the little guy can't get any service cause Wilson's nailin' cocktail waitresses two at a time.

Somebody needs to slap him around a little.

:D

The Real Hawkeye
October 7, 2004, 10:46 AM
Now the little guy can't get any service cause Wilson's nailin' cocktail waitresses two at a time.That's what Mo Green says he's doing, anyway. Oh, wait a minute, that's Fredo. :D

fastball
October 7, 2004, 11:59 AM
I am sorry about your problem, understand your complaint, and am embarrassed that a member would be treated with such a lack of respect, not just by the offending corporation, but by another member. This is not a term paper, and should not be judged as such. Hang in there. Just hope your credit card company comes through for you.------Tom

johnnymenudo
October 7, 2004, 12:31 PM
Pay for everything with a credit card. If you get screwed you contact the credit card company and dispute the charges. Solves a lot of problems and forces people to take action if they think they are not going to get paid.

JM

BluesBear
October 7, 2004, 03:42 PM
Now the little guy can't get any service cause Wilson's nailin' cocktail waitresses two at a time.
Oh come on y'all.

It's fine and dandy to criticize the workmanship, quality control, customer service or whatever regarding the business.

But don't you think groundless insults and personal attacks againt Mr Wilson himself are a little low road? Especially without hearing his side?


No wait a minute. Back the bus up...

Any man Wilson's age who can still nail two cocktail waitresses at once is Da Man! :evil:

taliv
October 23, 2004, 08:52 PM
my experience with wilson:

dec of last year I ordered a custom pistol through a master dealer in WV that I got off wilson's website. they later fired the wilson rep i was working with, and the master dealer mysteriously disappeared (his voicemail still works as of august, but he has yet to return any of the messages I've left). Apparently the wilson guy was telling everyone, including myself, that ETA on custom pistols was 3 months or less, when in reality it was 9+ months. Also, my order number apparently changed due to wilson changing computer systems sometime around the beginning of the year (or so I was told.)

neverthless, I was able to keep my order and called and checked the status of the order about every other week until May '04. In May, I walked into another Wilson master dealer's store in Ohio and saw a pistol that was EXACTLY what I ordered: a tactical elite, with stealth slide but full-sized frame like their professional model, but with the tapered cone barrel, and green/black in color. This combo was unique when I ordered it. (esp the color, as nobody else wants the tac elite or supergrades in green)

I asked about the gun, and was told wilson had called this dealer and said a customer flaked, so the dealer bought it to resell.

naturally, I marched straight home and called wilson, and surprise surprise, they no longer had any record of me or my gun. they couldn't even tell me who they sold it to. Now, I could understand a little mixup, but not having any record of a gun is a bad thing (particularly as far as the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms Explosives and Goose-Stepping (BATFEGS) is concerned).

The rep I talked to spoke to the test firer and he remembered the gun and my name (and remarked about the unusual color), but had no idea where it went. Fortunately, I hadn't put any money down so I wasn't out anything more than 6 months of anticipation.

I am a pretty forgiving customer, especially of small businesses, and all the conversations were cordial, but I was upset that they acknowledged the mixup but refused to do anything at all to help me. All I asked for was to be moved to the front of the line, but was told that even though I had already waited 6 months, I would have to wait another 9+ months to get my gun. I declined.

Last month, I decided to buy a tactical supergrade compaq from yet another dealer, and have been very happy with it. I really like their guns and am inclined to believe the quality is worth the admittedly high price. And just today, I had decided to purchase a CQB compaq for xmas for my father, but after reading this thread, I've changed my mind and regret purchasing my supergrade, regardless of how well it shoots (which is pretty dang well).

I hope Bill W. decides to skip a few safaris and salvage his reputation.

NoHarmNoFAL
October 23, 2004, 10:06 PM
I own 2 Wilson’s and had to send one back for work and it was flawless. I can't believe this thread is still going.

nvrquit
October 23, 2004, 10:33 PM
Here I thought that EAA was a true gem to deal with.

At least the Tan Witness didn't tag me for the $1K plus that Wilson asks for their hardware.

Considering that several individuals have been handled in what can only be kindly referred to as "disrespectfully", I would think that the credit issuing avenue should be the minimum prosecution to pursue.

I wonder if the accounts listed here are within a certain time frame and fit any discernible pattern? It is a question worth asking....

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