the ULTIMATe pimp gun


max popenker
September 20, 2004, 05:37 AM
and guess who made it and for whom? ;)

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Tom Bri
September 20, 2004, 05:46 AM
Just a guess, for Saddam?

September 20, 2004, 06:39 AM
Too many flowers, too girly. Pearl handle looks tacky, gun is too huge. I want that undelivered MP5K that H&k has, but with flames or something a tattoo artist designed.

Not freakin' FLOWERS.

max popenker
September 20, 2004, 06:40 AM
Just a guess, for Saddam?
Close, but still miss.
Built for Iranian Shah...

September 20, 2004, 07:06 AM
Are you certain this was made for a shah?
The reason I doubt is that I had read that devout Moslem faith prohibits depictions of living things--either animals, plants or people, of any kind. This is why Arabic architecture such as mosques are always covered with winding banded knotwork, and never pictures of---living things, either plants, animals or people. I do not know much about religion, but a mild interest in ancient architecure and art seems to concur.
As an example, here is a Google image search of a really, really expensive Dubai hotel:
? Notice the "odd" decor (by Western standards)--no images or figures of living things were used.
Two possible countries of origin I'd guess: Last I heard, Turkey has maintained a "fairly" secular government heavily influenced by Moslem belief, and --ironically, Iraq was the other Arab country fairly-secular (in that Saddam refused to allow the church to run the country).

Standard "internet BS discount" applies, which basically means--I could be totally wrong.

September 20, 2004, 07:14 AM
IIRC, Iran was pretty secular under the Shah. Then the Ayatollah Khoneini took over and it all went to hell.

An d the lion, I believe, is the historic symbol of Persia.

September 20, 2004, 08:22 AM
I once saw this submachine gun illustrated in German gun publication "Deutsches Waffen-Journal". Damn I can't say which issue it was.

If I remember correctly, this gun was made for a rich Saudi-Arabian sheikh, probably a high-ranking, influential member of their government back then (late 60s?).

It may have been a "persuasion" gift for adoption of Heckler & Koch firearms for their army.

Don't know for sure...

September 20, 2004, 11:11 AM
Islam is iconoclastic, no depictions of animals. Floral designs are allowed.

September 20, 2004, 11:55 AM
It was for the Shah. IIRC, it was never delivered, however.

You can read about it in Project 54. The book is about the development of the HK MP5.

September 20, 2004, 01:39 PM
I once saw this submachine gun illustrated in German gun publication "Deutsches Waffen-Journal". Damn I can't say which issue it was.


You mean I have to go through every ONE of my copies???

:D :D :D

September 20, 2004, 01:55 PM
Looks like the lion is h*mping the back of the gun.:scrutiny:

September 20, 2004, 03:25 PM
I saw the plans for that in "art of the engraver" in an old Shooter's Bible, the plan called for 8 POUNDS of ivory.

Kind of overkill for a room broom.

Oh and FYI, when it comes to depictions of people and animals, you will occasionally see pictures of "heaven" depicted, but never in a mosque.

I had an art history professer who was married to an Iranian man, and sometimes these 'heaven" pictures are nearly risque, and they sort of fly in the face of everything you think you know about islamic art and culture.


September 20, 2004, 07:21 PM
According to the back dust jacket of "Project SIXTY-FOUR: the MP5 Story", the gun was part of a matched PAIR given to the Shah of Iran. They both lacked serial numbers and disappeared in the Iranian revolution.

Woohoo, hundredth post!!!

September 20, 2004, 09:22 PM
I was going to guess Liberace.

September 20, 2004, 10:43 PM
Ah, 64 not 54.

September 20, 2004, 10:49 PM
The straight mag indicates that it's a rather early variant, right?

September 20, 2004, 10:57 PM
The straight mag indicates that it's a rather early variant, right?

Yes, as does the size of the handguard.

Matt G
September 21, 2004, 02:52 AM
Well, that, and the fact that the Shaw was exiled in 1979 and died the following year. :) Has to be a quarter century old, anyway.

September 21, 2004, 07:27 AM
You mean it wasn't Tupac Shakur?:( Actually, until I took a good look at the crest with the Persian Lion-with-scmitar motif, I would have guessed Richard Nixon.;)

September 21, 2004, 07:34 AM
I got sent a pic awhile back for a friend of mine in country in Iraq with a pic of a Gold plated MP5.

September 21, 2004, 08:42 AM
As Garrison Keillor would say: and then there's the "yeah...but-al"

Though Islam has a general prohibition against portraying living things, this seems pretty commonly violated. Iraq was full of Saddam murals, though Saddamist Iraq was considered a bastion of secular socialism and wickedness by other Islamic nations. A falcon is depicted on the seal of Iraq, and commonly seen on any official document, even in the post-Saddam era. A local town where I work recently erected a fountain in the public plaza, depicting three teakettles and a plunging falcon. This despite the fact that they are Sunni Bedouin. I've heard Saudi is considerably stricter, but there is quite a variety of levels of piety across the Islamic world.

IRT Persia and lions: almost every Persian weapon I've seen was stamped with a seal depicting a lion beneath a mountain sunrise. I don't know about post-Shah seals, but most Shah-era G3s and Mausers have said seal.


Harry Tuttle
September 21, 2004, 12:22 PM
Pahlavi coat of arms

more bling:

September 21, 2004, 12:33 PM
What no AK love?

September 21, 2004, 12:38 PM
Damn preview stripped my attachment.

September 21, 2004, 01:04 PM
Liberace? Classic!

September 21, 2004, 11:38 PM
Dang, neeko, that really requires some explanation.

September 21, 2004, 11:44 PM
I dont know where the picture came from or even if its real. But it wouldnt suprise me if some gangster rapper out in California owned it.

September 23, 2004, 04:57 PM
I like the gold-plated AK I saw in pictures from Iraq.


September 25, 2004, 09:58 AM
neeko, that AK is from a collection of photographs taken by a female artist/photographer.

She took commonly seen weapons and had different coloured finishes applied to them. Many had fur accents added. SOme were real weapons and some were non-firing replicas. I think there were about 20 photographs or so.

There was/is a post either here or on The Firing Line about it. If I had more on-line time allowed to me I'd look for it. It's out there somewhere.

She did some very interesting work.

Texian Pistolero
September 25, 2004, 06:04 PM
follow that gun,

and you will find...


(ignore all the little green creatures.)

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