What's the Deal with Sound Suppressors?


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iiibdsiil
September 22, 2004, 02:34 PM
My girlfriend and I got into an argument about sound suppressors. She said they are 100% illegal, not even cops can have them, yada yada yada.

Now, I know they are legal some how, but I don't know how. So, we have a bet going. And I have to prove it to her by state or federal law.

I did a search on sound suppressors, and didn't find all that much information. I saw some nice setups though.

What I got is you have to apply to the BATF or something, it is a $200 tax, takes a while for an approval. It's Class III, or your gun becomes a class III, because of the threaded barrel, I believe.

Ya'll are the experts, not me. My knowledge when it comes to firearms is very very little. But, that's why I'm here, to learn.

So, if anybody could help me win this bet, that would be great. I want to show her and go :neener:.

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fletcher
September 22, 2004, 03:00 PM
From what I know (others will probably know more :p) you are pretty much right. You have to pay a transfer tax to the ATF to get one, and then you can have it. I'm not sure how the application process works, but I do know they are not illegal in the sense that you can not own one under any condition.

wasrjoe
September 22, 2004, 03:00 PM
According to the NFA act of 1934, sound suppressors are require a class III tax stamp. It does not effect your firearm at all. The stamp is only for the suppressor. Therefore, for a full auto suppressed FNC, for example, you would have to have two tax stamps - one for the suppressor and one for the rifle. Machine guns are illegal to manufacture as of '89, I think. The ones made before then, assuming they were legal up to that point, are still legal provided you do all your paperwork. Dealers, law enforcement, etc. can get suppressors and other goodies without very much hassle, comparatively speaking.

SLCDave
September 22, 2004, 03:02 PM
Sounds like you just about nailed it. GF is wrong. Here's a link for your reading pleasure (http://www.gem-tech.com/legal.html).

PMDW
September 22, 2004, 03:09 PM
Machine guns are illegal to manufacture as of '89, I think.

86. 89 is the import ban.

wasrjoe
September 22, 2004, 03:15 PM
Ahhh, k. So many dates to remember.

Chipperman
September 22, 2004, 04:04 PM
They are legal in some states and not others.

Unlike MG's, new suppressor manufacture is ok. All privately owned MG's (ie not an FFL/SOT, or LEO) were made and registered before May '86.

You can file the papers, pay the money, and make your own suppressor if you want. They do not have to be made by a company like Gemtech.

The suppressor is the NFA item. You can attach it to any firearm, and it does not affect the legal status of that gun when you take it off again.

F4GIB
September 22, 2004, 04:12 PM
This is an interesting contrast.

In anti-gun England and most of Eurpoe, sound supressors are NOT illegal or restricted at all. The considerate hunter uses them in order to avoid disturbing the neighbors when hunting or target shooting. Check out this ad. http://www.reflexsuppressors.co.uk/

SLCDave
September 22, 2004, 06:18 PM
So, what does she owe ya...? ;)

Justin
September 22, 2004, 06:20 PM
You know, that law is so asinine and antiquated. They passed it in a time when they didn't even know that exposure to excessive noise caused permanent hearing damage!

Based on just medical costs alone, deregulating sound suppressors would save the public multiple millions of dollars every year.

SLCDave
September 22, 2004, 06:21 PM
So, what does she owe ya? ;)

Justin
September 22, 2004, 06:23 PM
You know, that law is so asinine and antiquated. They passed it in a time when they didn't even know that exposure to excessive noise caused permanent hearing damage!

Based on just medical costs alone, deregulating sound suppressors would save the public multiple millions of dollars every year.

iiibdsiil
September 22, 2004, 06:54 PM
She owes me dinner. We'll see if she will accept this though, because it's not an "official gov't website."

PMDW
September 22, 2004, 07:15 PM
http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm

It's a rather large document, but it's in there.

iiibdsiil
September 22, 2004, 07:22 PM
Between the first link, and the last one, she said it was good enough for her.

I told her what you told me about the last link, "It's in there somewhere." Lol.

I WON! :neener:

Foreign Devil
September 22, 2004, 07:38 PM
Justin, do you have a tax stamp for that 3 round burst you just fired?

I want to see silencers deregulated too. You should be able to buy them over the counter. Let's start a letter writing campaign.

Dan Forrester
September 22, 2004, 08:58 PM
Here’s my Gemtech Vortex 2, with ATF form 4 underneath.

Dan Forrester
September 22, 2004, 09:02 PM
This is the same side of the form 4 without the gun. The Chief Law Enforcement signature is in green. In this case the sheriff of my county.

Dan Forrester
September 22, 2004, 09:06 PM
This is the opposit side of the form 4. At the top right is the actual $200 stamp. Ath the bottom left it my class 3 dealers signature. On the bottom is the signiture of the ATF examiner.

444
September 22, 2004, 09:08 PM
By the way: here is the legendary form 4. You can fill it out online and then print it out. This particular one has stuff already in the blanks that you would have to change: like where it says machinegun, you would have to change that to suppressor. http://www.titleii.com/pdf/032804Form4.pdf

If you are interested, you order the suppressor through your local dealer. You fill out the form above and print it out. You go to your local chain drug store (or whereever) and get some passport photos. You go to your local head law enforcement officer (sheriff, chief of police.......) and have him sign the form saying that there is no local law prohibiting you from owning the suppressor. You attach the photos, enclose a $200 check, mail it to ATF and sit back and wait. Oh, I forgot, you need to send in two copies of the form 4. What you get back from ATF is one of these forms you sent them only it has a stamp attached. The stamp looks just like a postage stamp only it is in the amount of $200. That is what makes you legal.

The reason you order the suppressor from your dealer first is because it has the serial number on it that you need to put on the form 4. The suppressor then stays at your dealers place of business until you get the form 4 back with the tax stamp. At that point, you go and pick it up and have fun very quietly.

Dan Forrester
September 22, 2004, 09:13 PM
Here’s a close up of the stamp.

Dan Forrester
September 22, 2004, 09:19 PM
BTW: I’m just a regular guy. I’ve never been in the military, law enforcement, or in any way been employed by, or have connections to anyone in the Government.

Tell you’re GF that if she wants to go shooting some time, to meet me at the first lock on the Kissimmee river in Okeechobee city. We’ll have our selves a good time.

Seriously though, meet me out in Okeechobee City some weekend and we’ll do a little suppressed shooting. I have a Gemtech Trinity 9mm that I’ve already purchased. I just need the paperwork to clear.

Dan

444
September 22, 2004, 09:19 PM
Crap, I guess the whole time I was typing that, Dark Tranquility was posting picutres of it. Oh well, bandwidth wasted. :D

Thumper
September 22, 2004, 09:25 PM
Either way, looks like dinner.

What's your gal saying?

Better yet, let her post.

SB88LX
September 22, 2004, 09:54 PM
What's the average waiting period to receive the overpriced postage back from the BATFE?

444
September 22, 2004, 10:02 PM
Well, it isn't a postage stamp.
And, the price of it hasn't gone up since 1934.
But, I waited about three months on mine. I have heard they are slower now since 09/11. They want to make sure that no terrorists attempt to legally buy an NFA weapon. :rolleyes:

jefnvk
September 22, 2004, 11:26 PM
Man, lots of rapid fires!

As soon as I leave MI when college is done, one of my guns is getting a supressor. Just because I can :p

(Either that, or a MAC10 has a future in my gun cabinet, if I get a good paying job :D)

SB88LX
September 22, 2004, 11:36 PM
I'm considering a MAC-10 in .45, only full-auto in my price range, but I need to make a decision soon before it appreciates right out of it.


"Well, it isn't a postage stamp"

Yeah I know. Just a sad attempt to make fun of it.

Zach S
September 23, 2004, 10:40 AM
How much does she know about machineguns? Maybe make another bet for desert...

Telperion
September 23, 2004, 11:48 AM
Even better, ask her why she thought that such useful and helpful technology was illegal. Explain some of the health and safety benefits of suppressed firearms. Change people's minds, one at a time... :D

BB62
September 23, 2004, 12:14 PM
Off topic a bit - am I correct in my understanding that if one legally owns a machine gun, one must notify someone (ATF, etc) when taking it out of state?

There is a machine gun shoot at Knob Creek Range, near Ft. Knox, twice a year, and it seems I hear the above somewhere...

Thanks!


BB62

BB62
September 23, 2004, 12:16 PM
double post...

BB62
September 23, 2004, 12:17 PM
Off topic a bit - am I correct in my understanding that if one legally owns a machine gun, one must notify someone (ATF, etc) when taking it out of state?

There is a machine gun shoot at Knob Creek Range, near Ft. Knox, twice a year, and it seems I heard the above somewhere...

Thanks!


BB62

Bubbles
September 23, 2004, 12:26 PM
Off topic a bit - am I correct in my understanding that if one legally owns a machine gun, one must notify someone (ATF, etc) when taking it out of state?

Yes, you must file a BATF Form 5320.20. It's available online at http://www.titleii.com/archives/000008.html

I've had BATF turn mine around in as little as 8 days, and as long as 2 months.

Bubbles
September 23, 2004, 12:32 PM
Off topic a bit - am I correct in my understanding that if one legally owns a machine gun, one must notify someone (ATF, etc) when taking it out of state?

Yes, you must file a BATF Form 5320.20. It's available online at http://www.titleii.com/archives/000008.html

I've had BATF turn mine around in as little as 8 days, and as long as 2 months.

Poodleshooter
September 23, 2004, 01:19 PM
Do you need to fill that form out for transferring AOW's or suppressors interstate? Instruction A on the form only indicates machine guns,DD's and short barreled rifles and shotguns.

Hkmp5sd
September 23, 2004, 03:31 PM
Do you need to fill that form out for transferring AOW's or suppressors interstate?
Nope. They are exempt.

Here's one of my suppressors on one of my machineguns....so they must be legal. :)
http://www.concealedcarry.info/modules/xoopsgallery/cache/albums/Image-Hosting/MP5.jpg

Hkmp5sd
September 23, 2004, 03:34 PM
Seems like a lot of double-taps going around today.

Glock-A-Roo
September 23, 2004, 03:55 PM
Just because I can...

Hahahahahahaha! Get it, "can"...

Well, it was funny to me...:D

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