Forgot he had loaded gun at airport??


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aut2no
September 23, 2004, 07:41 PM
Forgot where you left your gun, eh John? What part of the Mass law "under your direct control" don't you understand? Thanks for the black eye to the rest of us Class A holders.

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=45608

Traveler's loaded pistol doesn't pass Logan test
By Jennifer Rosinski
Thursday, September 23, 2004

An Andover executive headed to New York for a business trip was hauled off by state police after an X-ray technician spotted a loaded Glock 27 in his carry-on bag during a routine screening yesterday, authorities said.

John Chen, 30, was at U.S. Airways, Terminal B, when he loaded his bag onto the machine just after 7 a.m. and the pistol was caught by a Transportation Security Administration screener, according to state police.

Chen, who was headed to Buffalo, N.Y., told police he ``just grabbed'' the bag before heading for the airport and didn't know it contained a loaded gun.

Chen is licensed to carry a firearm, said officials.

He was arraigned on a possession of a concealed weapon charge at East Boston District Court, Suffolk District Attorney Daniel F. Conley's office said.

He was released on personal recognizance.

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crewchief
September 23, 2004, 07:52 PM
Wow what a shame to see a firearms owner be so careless as to forget where his gun was. What I want to know is why was the glock packed in the bag in the first place? Most people pack thier carry-on the night before or the morning of a flight, and to forget about the pistol within 24hrs. seems kind of lame to me. I also find this story rather amusing seeing how I am a former employee of the TSA.

DigMe
September 23, 2004, 07:57 PM
This happens pretty often.

brad cook

aut2no
September 23, 2004, 08:10 PM
What I want to know is why was the glock packed in the bag in the first place?

One radio news report said "briefcase".

jsalcedo
September 23, 2004, 08:29 PM
This happened to my cousin last year.

The gun fell between the ripped lining of the suitcase.

After much wrangling and a damn good lawyer charges were dropped.

Standing Wolf
September 23, 2004, 11:04 PM
Law-abiding American citizens ought to be able to keep and bear arms anywhere, any time, for any reason or no reason whatever.

gigmike
September 23, 2004, 11:38 PM
I heard a story from an attorney that a client of his was going through security when he realized that he had his Glock in his carry on. His client called him after clearing security and before boarding. He asked what he should do. His attorney told him to leave the airport immediately and worry about his luggage after taking the handgun home. Maybe those Glocks really are invisible to screeners?

MICHAEL T
September 23, 2004, 11:42 PM
Can't be everybody knows a Glock doesn't show up on x-ray,just ask any anti.:D

AF_INT1N0
September 23, 2004, 11:58 PM
Yeah I'll bet those folks in the trade centers would've liked this man to have been on one of those planes on 9-11-01. :banghead:

Just a thought..

GOT
September 24, 2004, 12:51 AM
When I was a kid (before 9-11) my Dad walked into an airport and emptied his pockets at the metal-detector and low and behold he had several cartridges with some change and keys :what: You see he took them from me and my brother earlier that day. Needless to say he didn't make the flight and got stipped searched and all that jazz :uhoh:

Don Gwinn
September 24, 2004, 01:08 AM
I doubt it. He wouldn't have known he had a gun.

Just a smart-aleck thought.

WEPS
September 24, 2004, 02:24 AM
how on gods green earth could someone possibly forget they had a loaded firearm? :banghead:

Pilgrim
September 24, 2004, 01:12 PM
how on gods green earth could someone possibly forget they had a loaded firearm?

Walking around in Condition White frequently will cause it.

Pilgrim

Sleeping Dog
September 24, 2004, 02:59 PM
What's "condition white"? What others are there?

I figure he was in "condition brown", with his head up his @ss :)

Regards.

TonyB
September 24, 2004, 04:40 PM
Ditto,Standing Wolf....:cool:

WT
September 24, 2004, 05:32 PM
I gather this often happens.

This guy seems to be one of the good guys. Give him a walk.

LynnMassGuy
September 25, 2004, 09:25 AM
Law-abiding American citizens ought to be able to keep and bear arms anywhere, any time, for any reason or no reason whatever.

...Yup, and those arms should be under the owners direct control when they are loaded. The idiot didn't know it was on his person?! Those are the kind of jerks who let their firearm-ignorant children get their hand on guns and give us all a bad name. If he didn't know his LOADED gun was in his bag where the HELL did he think it was?
:fire:

aut2no
September 25, 2004, 03:24 PM
...Yup, and those arms should be under the owners direct control when they are loaded. The idiot didn't know it was on his person?! Those are the kind of jerks who let their firearm-ignorant children get their hand on guns and give us all a bad name. If he didn't know his LOADED gun was in his bag where the HELL did he think it was?

LynnMassGuy, DITTO

I almost didn't start this thread since, unfortunately, this type incident happens all the time. I recall recently some high profile politicians forgetting they had a gun at the airport.

HOWEVER, the varying responses to this scenario are interesting. Yes, he is probably a good guy (and hopefully doesn't have kids at home).

Yes, some people I know carry in their briefcase, which I don't understand on several levels. Apparently they think they need protection only upon arriving at their destination (ofice retail store, etc), but are clairvoyant enough to know that they won't need it on their person while in traffic or walking in the parking lot.

While I tend to reject government laws substituting for common sense, nonetheless, in this commonwealth, if you're licensed to carry, the firearm must be "under your direct control". (codified common sense) If your pistol is in your briefcase and you stop to pump gas, you have just violated the law with your weapon not being under your direct control. Not to mention the fact that you're most vulnerable standing outside your car unarmed in that situation.

My *guess* about this guy is that he took the minimal training required for application (didn't listen well), got his permit, bought a small pistol and went brain dead afterwards.

While I agree that the RKBA is just that - a RIGHT - and doesn't assume that everyone is or should be a shooting enthusiast, nevertheless, it is the conduct of the John Chen's out there, that fuels the anti's and creates more legal restrictions, such as recertification for license renewals.

Rights do come with Responsibilities.

stealthmode
September 25, 2004, 06:07 PM
what are his credentials for security cheif he used to work as a reporter for 20/20 with barbra wa wa, and bratten asked him to work for him in new york and brought him here with him. is this guy any type of law enforcement or just someone getting a cool job because he knows someone.

aut2no
September 25, 2004, 06:30 PM
what are his credentials for security cheif he used to work as a reporter for 20/20 with barbra wa wa, and bratten asked him to work for him in new york and brought him here with him. is this guy any type of law enforcement or just someone getting a cool job because he knows someone.

Are you referring to John Chen of Andover???

aut2no
September 25, 2004, 06:31 PM
http://www.eagletribune.com/news/stories/20040923/FP_005.htm

Screener nabs Andover man with loaded gun in luggage
By Andy Kosow and Dorian Block
Staff writers

BOSTON -- An Andover man was arrested at Logan International Airport yesterday morning when a airport security screening device detected a Glock 27 loaded pistol in his carry-on bag.

John R. Chen, 30, of 16 Coventry Lane was passing through the US Airways security area of Terminal B when an X-ray screening machine detected the semi-automatic handgun, police said.

Investigators said Chen identified himself to police as the vice president of China operations for Mascon Inc., a Woburn-based company that produces circuit boards and security systems. He told police he was headed to Buffalo, N.Y., on a business trip and that he was unaware a gun was inside his bag when he picked it up to bring it to the airport.

David Procopio, spokesman for Suffolk District Attorney Daniel F. Conley, said the gun was loaded with 10 rounds of 40-caliber ammunition. Procopio said Chen has a license to carry the firearm in Massachusetts and Georgia.

Chen was arrested and charged with an airport security violation in East Boston District Court. He was released on personal recognizance.

Efforts to reach Chen at home and work were unsuccessful.

>SHOCK<^>WAVE<
September 25, 2004, 11:01 PM
Someone who should know better :cuss:


Detroit's top cop lacks permit to carry gun

Chief Oliver says he didn't know one was needed :barf:
October 22, 2003


Detroit Police Chief Jerry Oliver is not yet a licensed, sworn police officer in Michigan, which raises questions about whether he legally could possess the handgun found in his luggage at Detroit Metropolitan Airport during the weekend.

Wayne County officials confirmed that Oliver does not have a concealed weapons permit to carry the .22-caliber handgun found in his baggage Saturday after he checked it at the airport to board a flight to Philadelphia.

Oliver said he didn't think he had to register the personal weapon in Michigan. He has been a sworn officer in other departments, including Phoenix, and said he has had the gun "for years.

"I have several weapons, and they're registered at the place I purchased them," he said from Philadelphia. "They're not registered with the State of Michigan.

"My understanding was that as a police officer, you didn't have to register your weapons."

The loaded weapon was found by airport police in Oliver's bag after he checked in and cleared security for a Northwest Airlines flight. Oliver is in Philadelphia to attend a conference for police chiefs.

On Tuesday, officials from the Michigan Commission on Law Enforcement Standards said Oliver has not yet become a sworn police officer, but is close. David King, a spokesman for the commission, said Oliver has passed a written test, firearms testing and a physical. The department is still awaiting documentation of first aid training.

"He's passed all the major stuff, and he's been very cooperative with us," King said.

Oliver said Tuesday that he has passed every test and has been waiting for notice of his police certification. He said he began the process about a year ago.

"You can be a police chief and not be a sworn officer," Oliver said. "But I wanted to be sworn in the state of Michigan, and that's what I attempted to do."

Detroit Police Commissioner Megan Norris said there are cities across the country that have unsworn police chiefs.

"Whether the chief is sworn or not is of absolutely no importance to me," Norris said Tuesday. "On the other hand, if the chief is exercising certain privileges that you can only exercise if you're sworn, then it would matter."

Meanwhile, the federal Transportation Security Administration is investigating why Oliver didn't declare the weapon, which is airport policy, when he checked his baggage before the 1:30 p.m. flight. Oliver could face a fine of up to $1,000, a security administration spokeswoman said.

Oliver said he has been contacted by the security administration and arrangements are being made for an interview.

"I think they are embarrassed and dismayed by all the publicity, as I am," he said. "We will try to get all this resolved as soon as possible."

Amy Van Walter, a spokeswoman for the security administration, said Tuesday that a decision on whether to fine Oliver will be made by next week.

Oliver said technically, he was not carrying a concealed weapon at the time that airport police found the gun.

"I did not have it on my person, and I could not reach the weapon," he said. "It was packed in my luggage and not accessible, and I did not consider it to be a concealed weapon."

John Roach, a spokesman for the Wayne County Sheriff's Department, said he agreed with Oliver's assessment that the gun was not accessible and, therefore, not a concealed weapon.

"No one sees anything here that would warrant a criminal investigation," Roach said.

State law says a person who does not possess a carrying permit "shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person."

Oliver, who became Detroit's chief in February 2002, acknowledged that he made a mistake by not declaring the weapon when he checked into the airport.

"It was an honest mistake on my part and an oversight," he said. "I'm an adult and I'm responsible for my conduct and I expect to be held accountable for the mistakes that I make."
http://www.freep.com/news/locway/ngun22_20031022.htm

yorick
September 26, 2004, 01:15 AM
So if you're a civilian you get 'hauled off by state police' - but if you're a cop weeeellll---that good ole boy just made a leetle ole mistake -


http://ktla.trb.com/news/local/ktla-me-miller24sep24-lat,0,2078853.story?coll=ktla-news-1


From the Los Angeles Times

Screeners Find Gun in Bag of Antiterror Chief

The LAPD's John Miller says he forgot about the weapon. Bratton calls incident embarrassing.

By Jennifer Oldham and andrew blankstein
Times Staff Writers

September 24, 2004

The city's top antiterrorism official was detained at Los Angeles International Airport on Thursday after screeners found a loaded .38-caliber Smith & Wesson handgun in his carry-on bag, a violation of federal rules that prohibit civilians from carrying weapons aboard aircraft.

John Miller was questioned by the federal Transportation Security Administration after a screener at a security checkpoint in Terminal 1 saw the gun in his black computer bag via an X-ray machine. Miller was traveling to New York with his wife and daughter.

Miller, who is authorized to carry the firearm, said he forgot that the department-issued gun was in the bag, according to Los Angeles Police Chief William J. Bratton.

"It was embarrassing for him, certainly embarrassing for his family, and embarrassing, to be quite frank with you, for the department," Bratton said at a late-afternoon news conference at Parker Center.

Airport police, an independent agency that the LAPD is campaigning to gain control of, confiscated the gun but allowed Miller to continue his trip to tape a farewell message to Barbara Walters, who is retiring soon as co-anchor of the ABC newsmagazine "20/20." Miller, who has interviewed Osama bin Laden, was co-anchor of the program with Walters before Bratton picked him to head the city's antiterror effort in 2003.

The TSA, which was created by Congress after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks to boost aviation security and which manages screeners at the nation's airports, is investigating the matter, said Nico Melendez, a TSA spokesman. The agency can levy a fine of up to $10,000 for taking a firearm through a security checkpoint, he said.

"There is no exception for police officers or people with a [concealed weapons permit] to travel on airplanes with weapons unless the police officer is traveling on duty and has a letter from his or her agency authorizing them to travel on an airplane," said Larry Fetters, the TSA's federal security director at LAX.

Fetters said he would recommend that his agency issue a "letter of warning" to Miller but no fine.

Bratton said that although the incident was an embarrassment, it showed that airport security works.

Miller isn't the only high-ranking official to be caught with an undeclared firearm at an airport security checkpoint.

Last month, Indiana Republican Rep. John N. Hostettler, who was stopped with a loaded gun in his briefcase by security at Louisville International Airport, pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of carrying a concealed deadly weapon. Hostettler agreed to give up the weapon in exchange for a suspended 60-day sentence.

Last fall, screeners at Detroit Metropolitan Airport found a loaded .25-caliber handgun in then-Detroit Police Chief Jerry Oliver's checked baggage. Oliver said he was unaware that such firearms must be packed in a locked case and declared to the airline, the TSA said.

Since February 2002, the TSA has confiscated more than 2,000 guns at airport security checkpoints.

Fetters said Miller is often at the airport moving in and out of secure areas and is an "integral" part of protecting the airport.

"I don't perceive any ill intent on his part," Fetters said. "It doesn't alarm or concern me other than I don't want him to do it again."
Copyright © 2004, The Los Angeles Times

jamz
September 26, 2004, 08:34 AM
I might know this guy. I think he shoots at my range. I've shot his 1911. I know he has a black powder Navy replica that he likes, and he brings a huge wheeled case fulla stuff with him when he shoots.

I don't know him personally, other than that, so I don't know what his level of responsibility is like, other than he is "range safe".

-James

Dorian
September 26, 2004, 01:02 PM
Those are the kind of jerks who let their firearm-ignorant children get their hand on guns and give us all a bad name.

Sounds like the ignorance is the problem, not the firearm.

aut2no
September 26, 2004, 01:53 PM
Sounds like the ignorance is the problem, not the firearm.

True, and if it were to end there with the consequences incurred by the irresponsible license holder, that would be fine and fair.

HOWEVER, as these incidents accrue, it the legislators that enact new onerous laws that impact us responsible CCW license holders. We are a "May Issue" state. Then his irresponsibility becomes MY problem.

Dean Speir
September 26, 2004, 03:21 PM
&nbsp; The LAPD's John Miller says he forgot about the weapon. Bratton calls incident embarrassing.

The city's top antiterrorism official was detained at Los Angeles International Airport on Thursday after screeners found a loaded .38-caliber Smith & Wesson handgun in his carry-on bag, a violation of federal rules that prohibit civilians from carrying weapons aboard aircraft.

John Miller was questioned by the federal Transportation Security Administration after a screener at a security checkpoint in Terminal 1 saw the gun in his black computer bag via an X-ray machine. Miller was traveling to New York with his wife and daughter. John Miller is, and always has been what we in the East refer to as a "dick," and upon personal knowledge, an arrogant one to boot.

In Law Enforcement circles, they have another name for him, and I believe it is known as a "buff."

When he was a crime beat reporter on the local (NYC) NBC station, he rode around in his personal white Range Rover which was outfitted with a siren, strictly prohibited under New York State law.

He also had a full NYC carry license, a v-e-r-y hard to come by document which he routinely abused by bringing his bimbo de nuit to our local range Sundays and letting her blast away with his Glock or D-frame snubbie. (He had a weekend get-a-way in my old neighborhood 1½ miles from our range.) In New York State it is a Class D felony to allow an unlicensed individual to handle a handgun.

He left his reporter's job at WNBC for a period of time to serve as deputy police commissioner for public affairs for the NYPD, under Bratton, I believe. After a high profile dust-up, his second year into that job, he returned to his reporters job at WNBC, and then jumped ship to ABC network news.

His sole claim to anything seems to have been that the late NYC mob boss John Gotti took a liking to him and Miller enjoyed greater "access" to the mobster than any of the other local reporters. This crime coverage "made" him as a reporter.

But he's always been "a dick," an assessment shared by one of my crew who recalls:As an alumnus, I attended a panel discussion at my old law school where Miller was a speaker. This was when he was with NYPD. Miller's S&W J-frame in an ankle holster was clearly visible under the table (which was on an elevated stage from the audience). I thought he was a dick before then, and I thought so that day too. His qualifications as a counterterrorism official are highly suspect. It seems that his #1 qualification for anything to do with Law Enforcement is his willingness to be Bratton's "butt boy."

&nbsp;

j.wise
September 26, 2004, 03:59 PM
That's the problem with briefcase/purse carry. A friend of mine was walking into a busy courthouse, and when he saw the metal detectors he realized his mistake. He immediately stopped, turned around and began walking back out to the parking lot. Security stopped him in the parking lot (after he'd dropped off the pistol) and questioned him.

Oops...

I forget HOW MANY guns I have on me sometimes- is that the same?

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