[Spark]

After checking out the Kel Tec's at SHOT, I'd thought for sure that I'd have a .32 model come home with me at the earliest opportunity.

When I went to the local shop / range, ready to put down the cash, they said something that gave me pause.

Namely, they didn't stock them, but they could get them for me - because they'd stopped carrying the brand due to problems. Namely slides flying off on the range and hitting people in the face.

They recommended the Kahr 9mm polymer models (the steel model was heavy as hell) and I have to admit that it's pocket friendly. Not to mention 9mm is a better choice than .32... but caliber is another issue.

So, does anyone have reliability info on these two?

Kevin

[Pico]

Although I'm a KT P-11 owner, IMHO Kahr is a much finer weapon and it also costs twice as much. I've stopped trying to equate these two because I get hammered big time by the folks who shoot Kahrs. I really like them, too, but for a pocket gun with a 3" barrel, as long as it fires every time, it doesn't have to be all that perfect to me. The newer gen KT's are reporting fewer problems but they remain undesirable to many with their long trigger pulls and unfinished appearance.

Could be the shop owner is trying to sell you a higher priced weapon because I haven't heard of any events such as slides flying off happening. The chief KT problems are feed/extraction related and the .32 is generally considered better than the P-11 in reliability here.

I have one of the P-11's which has been flawless in 600 rounds so far but others still report occasional QC problems. At least you can be sure Kel-Tec will fix the problem if it comes up.

Pico

[denfoote]

I have thought enough of the Kel-Tec P32 to purchase one for my lovely wife!!! You can infer what you want from this. I trust it, she trusts it. It is the perfect weapon for the distances she is apt to have to shoot. Namely, across a retail counter to put a couple of quick rounds into the goof that is trying to hold her up, then get the heck away and call the police!!! The small size means that there is not going to be a tell tail buldge in her pocket to frighten the customers or alert the BG to it's presence. I also offered her the Kahr MK9. She rejected it because it did not fit her mission profile.

[CleverNickname]

I have both. The PM9 has been much more reliable than the P32. I got the P32 before the PM9 came out, but once I got my PM9, I haven't carried the P32 since.

[JohnBT]

"...slides flying off on the range and hitting people in the face."

Of the problems ever reported on KTOG, or anywhere else during the couple of years I've owned my P-32, this isn't one of them.

Bwahahahahaha. slides flying off hee-hee.

That's a good one. Never heard it before.

John

[Blackhawk]

I've got both a P-11 and a P-32. Both have been 100%, and I could spend the rest of the night extolling their virtues. Let me just condense it all by saying what you heard at your gunshop is a big steaming pile of Barbra Striesand.

Balance that with the fact that you can pick up a P-32 at a gun show for $200-$210 or just order one from CDNN for that price AND the fact that your dealer doesn't have one but he does have a Kahr from which he will undoubtedly make a bunch more profit.

As a general rule, I never trust a vendor who knocks a product he doesn't have in favor of one he does have.

Kahrs are fine guns, but so are KTs....

[agony]

You sure this gun-shop loser wasn't talkin' about the time when he was a SEAL BUDS trainer and his best friend's ship-mate's step-brother's Beretta M9's slide flew into his face??? ;)

Never heard the KelTec prob you mention.

IMHO, the Kahr is a finer piece. But it is a different gun than the P32. I carry a Kahr as my primary CCW, and a Keltec as a BUG. I trust my Keltec, after nearly 1000 rounds without a failure. Plus I still retain my ugly mug, as the slide is still on the frame. HOWEVER, I will probably stop shooting the P32, as I don't want to excessively wear it out any further. Hopefully, when the Kahr PM9 gets my 100% reliability rating, it may replace the KelTec.

[Spark]

I know, I know, when I hear the "slide flying" stories, I roll my eyes too.

But when all 3 guys behind the counter say that they consitently have problems on the range they operate, and the head guy says he dropped the line because of warranty problems (costing them money sending back and forth), my ears perk up because I face the same problems.

I'll be chatting one of them up tomorrow at a shoot were both going to go to... I'll see if I can get my BS meter running right.

We're both in the same line of business in the same town, but you never know - some guys just see the bottom line.

Kevin

[Minute_Of_Torso]

I've posted this before and I'll post it again:

P-11. 1500+ rounds. 100% reliable. Never had a slide fly off. Never heard of a KelTec slide flying off. BTW, my 92FS has never had a slide fly off either!

Can't say anything about the Kahr, never owned one and probably never will since if I want another very small, very reliable pistol . . . I'll buy another KelTec at half the price of the Kahr.

[Blackhawk]

But when all 3 guys behind the counter say that they consitently have problems on the range they operate, and the head guy says he dropped the line because of warranty problems (costing them money sending back and forth), my ears perk up because I face the same problems.More Barbra Striesand from the same perspective... behind the counter of a dealer who wants to upsell you. Dealers can mail guns to manufacturers, and KT pays to send them back. The protests about KTs from those guys sound churlish....

[Kahr carrier]

If you are looking for a pocket gun take a look at the NAA Guardian 380 Kahr makes the frames for these guns the MSRP is $449.00. I have a Kahr K-9 elite and has been reliable for me and I usually put 50 rnds a week thru it. Cant say anything about the Keltec Ive handled them but never shot one.

[zorba]

I have a Kahr K9, it is a well made and reliable, don't own a Kel-Tec but if I had to choose between the two, I would buy another Kahr.

[Arub]

Let's see, profit margin on a $239 pistol is less than the profit margin on a $499 pistol, which would I prefer to stock and sell? Think this might have something to do with their position?

If 'slides were flying off' and hitting shooters in the face, it would be all over the web by now. I generally hit 5 firearms forums on a regular basis. Have never seen a report concerning Kel-Tec slides 'flying off'.

The reply about 'I own a Kahr and have never owned a Kel-Tec, would buy another Kahr over a Kel-Tec'. That's a normal position. If someone has something they know and are comfortable with, it's an easy and safe decision to buy it again rather than risk buying a competing product they know little or nothing about. Default is comfort and known. Doesn't mean that the comepting product is not adequate or superior.

[Snowdog]

I don't by KTs because I've heard that they sometimes go full-auto and explode on the last round.
:uhoh: :D

I've had a K9 for about five years or so, it's as reliable as reliable gets. My P32 is a performer as well.

I'd say it boils down to which feels best for you.

[Marcus]

Yep,the gunshop guys are really yankin yer chain. Of course the rumors of Kahrs exploding in a huge mushroom cloud and turning the shooter into a pile of radioactive goo are true. :neener: The Kahrs are fine guns and my gut tells me that their solid construction (especially the steel guns) should outlast the more lightly built Keltec. On the other hand my trusty P-11 has well over 8,000rds. through it including lots of Corbons,Triton and Speer +Ps and it doesn`t show any more wear than it did on day 1 and has experienced 0 breakage and only one jam,a failure to go fully into battery with cheapo Win. whitebox when it was extremely dirty. Marcus

[yzguy]

Well I kinda have heard of slides flying off, but that would be in the forward direction, not rearward. It is physically impossibly (without severe metal parts being broken off and flying around) for the slide to travel off the frame rearward. So if the slide were to fly off and hit someone in the face, it would be the person you are aiming at!!

and to address the problem of the slide going forward, some of the older KT's had a problem with the assembly pin backing out under recoil. If it were to come all the way out, the slide can slide forward and off (that is how you field strip it). When I got mine I came up with this solution (for the P-11 and P-32):
http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/assemblypin.htm
(because I never wanted to see that problem)

Now newer ones (no idea as to how new but some time in the last year) the assembly pins come with a deeper grove in them, but still not as deep as mine, so I like my idea better. (I wonder if they got it from me??)

[sm]

Over 6K rounds through a P-11, never had a slide fly off, no failures of any kind.

I grew up and spent 35 years in retail--observations:

-If one tells the truth--they don't have to remember a lie.
-easiest way to build one's self (or company) 'up' is to degrade someone else (or co.) , which to me means they haven't the experience, knowledge or performed research...easier to 'mis-inform' than to educate.
- Bottom line: How much product are you getting for the money spent.

I have a Keltec, it fit a price range in a product to fill a niche. The gun fits me.

I have never shot a Khar--I have handled one. Kahr makes a nice product in a different price range.

In anything--what are getting for what you spent.
Another pet -peeve, Which I refused to do and resent when retailers do, do NOT insult my intelligence by telling me that "I like you and just for you I'll sell it for 50% off."

A loaf of bread is $2---Do NOT tell me that loaf is $4 and your discounting it 50% to me. I'm still paying $2 for bread.

OFIT and out of retail.

[firestar]

"As a general rule, I never trust a vendor who knocks a product he doesn't have in favor of one he does have."

Good point Blackhawk. I have noticed the same thing with dealers around me. If they carry it, it is the best gun ever, if they don't, they are the biggest POS ever. It is funny when you catch them talking about how great a gun is when you can remember them trash talking it before they carried it.
:rolleyes:

I also have NEVER heard of slides flying off any Kel-Tec. I have heard just about every other problem with them though.

I have a P-32 and it is now reliable but when I first got it, it had many FTE. KT replaced my extractor with the upgraded one and it works fine. I think as long as you are buying a new recent production KT then you should be fine. KT is great for warrenty work and they don't make you send the entire gun in to fix something that is only in the top half. This will save you money, it cost me $4 to ship the top hald for repairs while it would have cost me $25-30 if I had to ship the reciever.

You can't compare a Kel-Tec P-32 to a Kahr for many reasons, price, size, weight, cal, etc. I don't think there is really anything like the P-32 on the market right now. It is the ultimate for DEEP concealment, you can carry this gun behind ear if you wanted.:D Hey, whats that behind your ear? Oh, its a P-32.:neener:

[firestar]

I can't speak to duribility but reliability is on the Kahr's side. Maybe now KT has all the bugs worked out but they had some serious QC problems.

I would say, buy the Kahr if you can afford it and if you can afford to carry the size and weight of it. Sometimes, my P-32 is brought along when I would take ANY gun and I like that. :D