Good Shoot by MP in California?


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Leatherneck
September 24, 2004, 11:29 AM
Los Angeles Times
September 24, 2004

Military Police Officer Kills Theft Suspect

By Times Staff Reports

A military police officer shot at three civilians — killing one and wounding another — after confronting them as they tried to steal a motorcycle from North Island Naval Air Station, officials said Thursday.

The incident occurred Wednesday night in a parking lot. The officer fired because he thought his life was in danger, said Navy Capt. Tim Lawrence.

One suspect was found in Coronado, another on the bridge linking Coronado and San Diego. Both men were taken to a hospital, where one died. The third man remained at large.

TC
TFL Survivor

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RKCheung
September 24, 2004, 11:32 AM
Not enough information.

WT
September 24, 2004, 12:08 PM
Based on what is presented, I have no reason to doubt the veracity of the MP.

I know MP's get killed or wounded by civilians on US bases. Two MP's were shot and wounded at Ft. Dix about 2 years ago.

Durus
September 24, 2004, 01:08 PM
From my understanding a MP is only required to say "halt" and if the person they are saying halt to doesn't comply with the request he is not only authorised but DUTY BOUND to stop the individual, forcefully if required.

There is a mildly amusing story of a naval officer ignoring a marine private "halt" order on a foriegn base and wound up getting shot. The marine was commended for his actions but the base comander suggested more markmanship training as the naval officer was only wounded.

It may not be a true story but it makes me smile.

Series 70
September 24, 2004, 01:09 PM
Back in my MP days (in the '80s), the only reason for shooting a perp was if that suspect had a firearm and was threatening you with it. If confronted with a knife-wielding perp, the appropriate level of force to use was the baton.

We were taught to escalate to equal force, not one step above the level of force available to the perp.

I always thought that was dumb, but those were the rules. I hope the rules have been updated. If this MP was not faced with a firearm, he would not be justified in using his own firearm under the UCMJ.

noonanda
September 24, 2004, 01:33 PM
I agree with the escalation of force issue, and Deadly force would not be authorized to protect a motorcycle.
Deadly force is authorized in defense of goverment property inherently dangerous to others such as weapons, explosives, in defense of goverment property not inherently dangerous but could pose a threat to national security(radio freqs/crypto), in defense of others and in self defense. Maybe they have a different ROE at north island

Steve in PA
September 24, 2004, 03:26 PM
Not enough info.

But if the story stays the same, then no, the shoot was not "good". I was in the military, USMC and there is no way we would shoot someone for stealing a civilian vehicle.

Things would be different if they were trying to steal a military vehicle possibly.

Oleg Volk
September 24, 2004, 03:55 PM
I thought he shot them for threatening his life subsequent to him interfering with an in-progress crime...

dustind
September 24, 2004, 04:00 PM
ASS-U-MEing the story is correct. Good shoot.

Series 70
September 24, 2004, 04:23 PM
The officer fired because he thought his life was in danger.

We don't know why he thought his life was in danger. That's really the crux of the matter. If the bad guy came at him with a knife, sure his life was in danger, but in the army that does not justify drawing one's sidearm. We need more information.

dinosaur
September 24, 2004, 04:32 PM
If the guy with the birdie on his shirt (the Navy Captain) says the MPs life was in danger, I think we can move along, nothing to see here.:cool:

Gameface
September 26, 2004, 12:58 PM
Disclaimer: The following is what I heard from other shipmates about the matter, not confirmed fact by any means.

The incident took place in what we call the non-decal parking lot that is located just OUTSIDE one of the entry gates. It is a place for people to park vehicles that for whatever reason do not have base parking decals. The incident took place while my ship was out to sea. A few weeks ago when my ship was out to sea 6 motorcycles were stolen from that same parking lot. I think it is safe to assume that the MA’s (In the Navy they are Master-at-Arms, not MP’s) were keeping a close eye on that lot in case the thief’s decided to come back.

They came back…

This is the part that is not confirmed. The way the story went around the ship was that the MA’s tried to block the thief’s from getting out of the lot, which is gated in except for a single access point, and one thief was on one of the bikes and tried to drive over an MA to get out of there. That’s when a different MA shot the man in order to protect the MA who was blocking the exit.

My opinion is that if they’ve got a workable story to prove that the use of force was justified then that’s good. At least one of the thief’s was assigned to a Transient Personnel Unit (TPU) which is often where one goes as they are being processed out of the Navy. These guys were stealing other service members’ bikes when they knew we’d be gone.

They are scum.

Gameface

WT
September 26, 2004, 02:56 PM
Gameface - we should bring back keelhauling!

Drjones
September 26, 2004, 06:12 PM
Good Shoot by MP in California?


A military police officer shot at three civilians — killing one and wounding another — after confronting them as they tried to steal a motorcycle from North Island Naval Air Station, officials said Thursday.


No, it was a bad shoot.

He only wounded one and totally missed the third.

:banghead:


Hey, you try to steal, you should pay the price....those are MY TAX DOLLARS they are trying to steal!!!! :cuss:

At least there's one less criminal in this world and two others who will probably choose a new career now....

jefnvk
September 27, 2004, 10:06 PM
If you're dumb enough to steal from a gun store or military base, you probably deserve what you are gonna get.

Gameface
September 27, 2004, 11:55 PM
I’ve got to agree with jefnvk. Most of the MA’s are gung ho Navy, but they’re stuck checking ID’s at the gate, or rounding up drunken squids. So a few idiots decide they’ll steal motorcycles from a military lot while the ship is away. They get away with it once and think they’re onto a good thing. They just didn’t know how little base security really has to do on an average night. I temporarily worked with shipboard security and I’ll tell you, these guys are just waiting for something like this.

Go ahead…Make my (NAVY) day!

Gameface

UnknownSailor
September 28, 2004, 12:04 AM
I have a pretty good ideal where this happened. Probably at the gate over by Pier Lima, which does have a lot outside the gate.

I imagine things were pretty worked up around security that day... Normally it's a pretty dull job.

Gameface
September 28, 2004, 02:03 AM
That's the one.

Are you airwing? If so what squadron and what rate? I've got an old buddy that last I heard was an instructor up there (Whidbey Island) and he's an AT. He'd probably be AT2 or AT1 Martin.

Gameface

UnknownSailor
September 28, 2004, 02:34 AM
I was on the USS Kitty Hawk from 1996-2000, so I spent about a year and a half at NASNI, prior to going to Japan.

I dropped many a dollar on the Coronado Bay Bridge, let me tell you.

I'm in VAQ-140 currently, a supply bubba.

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