[Masione]

Hi all, my first post here, but I have been lurking for a while. Anyway, on to the issue.

I am 24 years old, and will be taking my CCW class in approx 3 weeks. I should have a couple freinds I have gotten interested in it along with me, but who knows. Anyway, with this, I have a difficult choice to make. I don't really want to spend a lot of money on several guns, but I am willing to pay for a quality one. What I was originally interested in was a Beretta 92fs, but I fear it will be too big/bulky to conceal on a regular basis. I will probably pick up one of these sooner or later, but I want to buy a good conceal weapon first. Am I correct, or will it be fine? My main style of clothes is a single t-shirt tucked or not, not really that baggy but I have lost ~20 pounds so all of my clothes are a bit too big atm. :D

I am pretty set on a 9mm since ammo isn't terribly expensive, but it still packs a punch.

Since I decided that it would most likely be too big for me, I started looking at other compact models, the compact and subcompact glocks I like, but the fact they have no actual safety on it makes me think it might not be the best choice. Glock 19, 26, and 27 are what I was looking at in this line.

Of course there is always the 92fs compact L, holds a lot less ammo, but other than that is that a good one?

Well after seeing these maybe you have a good idea of my tastes and can recommend something I don't know about, I have a while to purchase a gun, but the CCW class comes with a free month of range time, and I would also much rather qualify on the gun I will be using than a rental.

Price limit is about 500-600 max for the gun, gotta have some left over for holster, ammo, etc. The range I will be taking my CCW class at does offer rentals, but only berettas and glocks. So my experience is mainly limited to those 2.

[WT]

Glock 19 with a 15 round mag. Load with Speer 124 gr Gold Dots.

[Super Trucker]

First off welcome to the forum

I have a 3913 S&W that I like it holds 8 rounds of 9mm it is smaller than the Beretta but slightly bigger than the Glock 26, I personally don't like Glock's ( the grip in my hand is not comfortable ) so I can't comment on them. I just bought a S&W 642 5 shot .38 revolver that I put in my front jeans pocket. So that may be something else to consider. Don't let the "I must have the 6000 round magazine" thing make you buy a gun you don't like. not sure about you but I don't plan on taking on the entire Talibon any time soon, so having a 5 shooter with 1 reload makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. just my .02

[dbracin]

I would look real hard at the Kahr line of handguns. I carry my PM-9 alot. Great trigger and factory night sights make a great carry gun for less than $600. Add a Hedley pocket holster and a Kydex IWB holster and you have everything you need for all occasions. IMHO

[Bainx]

Welcome aboard. You will get answers to all of your questions either here or at TheFiringLine.com

Go Glock for quality and don't look back.
Simple, reliable, "bullet-proof". Anybody with a little coaching, can fire this gun. No levers, switches, etc, etc.

[Black Snowman]

It's going to be critical thet you're comfortable with the gun. Glocks are good and remind the user that safety is in their hands, not any mechanical gadgets. Properly used with a good holster the Glock is not unsafe but if you're not comfortable with it, there are plenty of other quality options.

After much exploration I have found CZs to be my personal favorites. Safe to carry C&L like a 1911 or hammer down like the Berretta. Even have decocker models (PCR and P-01) if that floats your boat.

Rent or borrow if possible an example of the differant guns you're considering. My recommendations are a CZ 75 Compact, CZ 75 PCR, Glock 19, SIG, anything else that floats your boat.

9mm is a good caliber choice as practice is going to be more valuable than terminal performance of the round. You can always get a bigger gun later if you feel the need :)

[Bulldozer]

Before I went and downsized my collection a few years ago, I kept a stable of 9mm compacts. Here's my take:

Kel-Tec P-11 -- very economical, but thin plasticy feel, sloppy trigger. Holds 10 rounds in a very small package.

Glock 26 -- loved this little number. Great little toter and spit on accurate with 124 grain JHPs. Regret letting that one go. Ability o use the 15 and 17 rd G17/19 mags a huge plus.

Beretta 92FS -- big honking service pistol. Hard to conceal in non-winter months, but reliable, effective, and 15 rds of ammo doesn't hurt either.

Kahr K-9/P-9 - great CCW piece in either polymer or steel flavor. quality build, but the mags are quirky until you break them in (250 - 300 rds ougtha do ya).

S & W 59 series -- thick and chucky. I liked the Third generation 39 series a lot better. Oh, the 469/669 was a great little CCW piece.

Taurus 911 -- economical and reliable toter with cocked and locked ability plus hammer drop feature. Held 10 rds and was so popular with an EX that she bought it off of me when we split.

[DMK]

I've carried my CZ-75 concealed which is the same size, weight and shape as a 92FS. It is a big honkin' gun for carry. The only time I feel comfortable with it is in the winter with bulky clothing and a jacket.

Personally I prefer single stack guns over double stacks for CCW since it makes for a thinner gun. I prefer carrying inside the waistband (IWB). I also prefer a shorter grip on the gun and a slightly canted holster. This means the gun will not stick out so much and the grip won't poke through your clothing as obviously.

While I carry a .45 because I find the compact and even full size 1911 platforms perfectly suited for my CCW preferences without giving up on shootability (go too small and the gun is unpleasant and hard to shoot accurately), I can see your reasoning for carrying 9mm. I'd probably go with one of the larger Khar offerings.

[sm]

Try before you buy....

...you can't stop an immediate threat if you can't hit it.

[MICHAEL T]

I agree try before you buy if possible, My self I don't care for the way a Glock feels in my hand. I do like the Kahr in 9 or 40. May a S&W in 9. of course if you can shoot a 1911 , just to see how it feels that is, A man can never have to many carry pistols. Maybe a little 5 shot snub for the ankle and then there the pocket to think about. You see this can get very expensive I haven't even mention spare mags or speed loaders practice ammo SD ammo ,holsters, belts. The list goes on and on. Good shopping,and welcome to the world of CCW.:what:

[tbeb]

Glock 19 and 26 are good choices. You can safely carry with a round in the chamber if pistol is in a holster that covers trigger guard. If it's not going to be holstered than keep the chamber empty--it doesn't take much time to rack the slide, chambering a round. If you think there'll be times when you want to drop pistol in front pants pocket then I'd look at the Kahr PM-9. If you like Kel Tec's then their P-11 is less expensive than and an alternative to the PM-9.

A lot of people carry small frame .38 special revolvers with a 2" barrel, and I am one of these. They are a dandy pocket gun, but only hold 5-6 rounds. I don't practice all that much anymore, so I use one that has an empty weight of 16 ozs. for ease of carry. Try to decide how many rounds you want the gun to hold, and that'll help with your decision.

[Range Ninja]

I'd like to suggest the Springfield XD series of guns, they usually run about $420 around where I live. I find I like the grip a bit more then the Glock, but the Glocks are pretty good also. I have owned 50+ handguns :o, of all different types. What I have learned is that you've just got to try a few different types till you find what you are comfortable with. BTW, my favorites include 1911's, Glocks, Springfield XD's, CZ 75's and S&W K-frames. It has been a fun experience and will continue to be so...:D

[roo_ster]

I would suggest a used handgun and spankin' new quality belt & holster.

Rent & shoot before you buy.

Used Glocks are a no-brainer. I don't like the Glock feel, but they just plain keep on shootin'.

Used revolvers are a bargain, too. They aren't so sexy nowadays, but will get the job done. You could buy a used Smith & Wesson M10 .38spl with a 2" BBL and one with a 4" BBL for that kind of money (Or any two K-frame S&Ws).

Belt & Holster
Don't be afraid to drop $100-$150 of your budget on these. Buy quality.

[JNewell]

Welcome.

9mm is a very solid choice. It will get the job done if you pick your load reasonably well, and you will be able to afford more practice time, which is critical.

Glocks are a good choice if the grip agrees with your hands. Most are very chunky, even fat, due to the double-stack magazine. I will take the risk of getting flamed right outta here and suggest that Glocks are not ideal for those new to handguns and especially if it is for carrying by those persons. I frankly think that a defensive weapon should have a slightly heavier trigger and would suggest that you think about replacing the stock 5.5 pound trigger parts with the so-called NY1 trigger, which IIRC yields about 8.5 pounds. In a defensive situtation, you will not notice the extra 3 pounds, but in other situations it will increase the margin of safety. Before you start thinking that 8.5 pounds sounds like a lot, think about the triggers in DA revolvers, even before the lawyers got to the engineering people.

Kahrs are very nicely made and exceptionally reliable, especially after being broken in. A K9 would suit your purposes well.

The S&W third generation pistols are very underrated. The 3913 and its so-called DAO counterpart the 3983 are excellent pistols.

The SIG P239 is also exceptionally reliable and accurate and a relative bargain compared to other SIGs. However, for your purposes (carry), you may be better off with a trigger that is always the same -- hence a Glock, Kahr or DAO S&W 3rd Gen.

The Berettas are great pistols, but tend to be large for their size.

Lots of opinions...if possible, the try before you buy advice is worth following.

[TarpleyG]

Kahr PM9. I don't own one but I want one and I have heard nothing but good stuff about them.

Greg

[GigaBuist]

Yes, the Beretta 92FS is big. Great duty gun or range gun, but tough to CCW I guess. We got a guy (Skunkabilly) on this board that weighs about 120 pounds though and CCW's one. We all agree he's a little odd though. :neener:

Yes, the no manual safety on a Glock is a bit scarey to some. I think it forces you to confront that whole "don't put your finger on the trigger" issue though. A Glock was my 2nd gun (by 24 hours) -- so I'm probably biased.

The G19 or G26, if you can try 'em out, might be worthwhile.

I'm also a CZ fan and the PCR, P-01, or the CZ RAMI (subcomact) might be good choices. The RAMI doesn't fit everybody's hand well though -- I like mine though! They're pretty cost effective too.

Definately plan on spending 100-150 for a holster and belt though. I'd suggest http://www.hbeleatherworks.com for a good holster. Nice looking stuff and I'm very pleased with the quality of workmanship!

The best pistol in the world is useless if it's uncomfortable to carry and you stop doing it.

Go ahead and post your location too -- might find some locals that'll let you try out their stuff to see what you like. We like making new gun owners around here. :)

[cratz2]

I've carried several different guns including extended stints with the following: Glock 23, Kahr P9 Covert, SIG 229, CZ PCR and several 1911s. I've carried a couple various CZs and EAAs and a Taurus 85CHULT. I also own a Taurus PT99 (copy of the full size Beretta with a different safety) that I was never able to comfortably conceal.

The Kahr is great for the minimalist, but I'd rather have a bit more to hang on to if serious shooting was ever required. As much as I like 1911s and single action pistols, I couldn't bring myself to recommend one to a new CCW holder/new shooter. I have no problem with the Glock design and certainly no problem with the SIG design... The Glock has a bit of a strange grip angle and the double stack SIGs are too blocky for my hands. The CZ PCR and CZ P-01 are just about perfect for my hands... Sized similarly to the Glock 19/Glock 23 but worlds better ergonomics in my opinion. Reliability on my PCR (and all the other CZs I've owned) has been perfect as has been my experience with two Glocks and three SIGs.

If I lost all my guns tomorrow and had to buy a new carry gun, it would be a CZ PCR, CZ P-01 or the frankenstein P-01/40 combo gun. They are just great guns and a very good value.

[Nick96]

I would say forget the auto and go with a revolver initially. But if your heart is set on an auto - I'd get a revolver first, then an auto. I would tend to go with these two - a Glock 19 and a S&W 642.

The 642 will likely end up being the most useful personal defence handgun you will ever get. Small, light, easy & safe to carry concealed, reliable, potent cartridge, simple to operate, etc. And, currently, you can buy them new most anywhere for under $375. Initially you may feel a bit light in the number of rounds area - but as time goes on you'll likely relize that 5 is adequate for a civilian use CCW gun.

So now the Glock 19. Unlike a revolver, it is strictly a holster carry type gun. There are some trigger insert safeties that can be had for them - but it's still not a gun that will forgive mis-handling as much as any DA/SA revolver. So loose pocket carry, dropping into a brief case or bouncing around in a car's glove box is strictly out. However it is light, reliable, simple to operate and uses a potent round. A big advantage to the Glock (in my opinion) is the trigger system. It operates more like a revolver than an auto. That is to say, consistent from first to last shot. Key in a self defence CCW gun is the ability to quickly pull from concealment, point & pull trigger - repeatedly. You don't want to be messing with buttons & levers to make it work - or adjusting to different trigger positions and grip holds in the process. The Glock 19 is neither too big or too small either.

[borderguy]

My duty weapon is a Beretta 96 .40 cal. It's a big honker so I don't carry it off-duty much.

Tried the Kel-Tec P11 and the ammo rattled in the magazine.

Tried a Mini Glock Model 27. It was a handfull in .40

Tried a Taurus Model 85. Nice, but not perfect.

Picked-up a Colt Officer's .45 and life is now good!!

It's small, easily controlled and packs a serious calber.

You'll probably have to spend some time with several different models to find the one best suited for you.

[Masione]

Thanks for all the great suggestions, my local range is pretty limited, only rents glocks and berettas, and don't know of any others near. Might have to go to Knoxville. I live near there in East Tennessee, Sevierville to be more exact.

I haven't even looked at the Kahr's, CZ's, or Springfield XD series. I'll take a look at those. I got a couple friends from work that are going to go to the class with me as well, one I want to go just because I want him to learn more respect for his weapon, and that's the only way I'll ever get him to do it.

[Masione]

Was looking at the XD9101, the 9mm version, and I really like the looks of it, and it has the grip safety. Not too expensive either.

[Black Majik]

The Glock 19 is a great CCW pistol. But IMO go for a .40 caliber pistol, the glock 23. Its the same size as the 9mm, but packs a slightly bigger punch.

If you want slim, you can always go for a 1911 Colt Commander. :D

[MrMurphy]

For a new shooter, it's all about hits. Having seen a bunch of people get shot, a 9mm with good hollowpoints will do the job IF YOU HIT HIM! So practice a lot, and hit center of mass. Peripheral hits will not drop someone regardless of caliber.


Glocks, Kahr and Sigs aren't "No safety" guns, they're No External Safety. Now revolvers, which have no external safeties, have been standard for 130 years. Keep your finger off the trigger like you're supposed to, and you're fine. The Glock design has three internal safeties and the Kahr does as well I think. I've seen little-practice or no-practice shooters who panic forget to remove the external safety in a match and "die", and I've seen video where a jewelry store owner did the same thing in a holdup with his PPK and was shot three times. The guy was out of ammo or he'd be dead.

In 9mm, the Kahr K9, P9 or a Glock 19 would do well. The Beretta 92 is far too large for what it delivers, and always has been. A good holster and belt go far in helping you conceal your gun, and I recommend a Comp-Tac C-TAC holster with a Aker B21 belt or a Wilderness 5-stitch Instructor's belt.


The Sig P239 is good, but bigger than the Kahr for the same performance.

The CZ's are excellent, the Czechs have made some world class guns for 80 years, so if they appeal to you, don't be afraid of them! The new PCR and P01 are good.

[Masione]

Hmm, I never even bothered looking at the CZ cause it's Czech, but after looking at it and the specs/reviews, I must say I am sintrigued by it. I need to stop being lazy and find a range with a better selection of rentals, gotta be one around here somewhere. So far I am considering the XD-9, CZ75/P01, and don't really like the Kahr, a bit too small, as is the G26 after thinking about it.

Yeah I know there is nothing wrong with the Glock if you are following standard rules and not doing what you aren't supposed to do, but being as this is kind of new to me, I just don't feel it's the right choice. I have a tendency to keep my finger on the trigger when I pick up a gun, I slap myself everytime I see myself doing it, but it's a habit I need to break. Comes from my experience with revolvers I suppose.

I do plan to spend a lot of time at the range, we get a free month with the CCW class so I will go there a lot at first. My dad lives in the country on a bit of land, so I can go out there as well, which I do at least once a week since I am restoring a car out there. 1967 Fairlane 500 if anyone cared about that :cool:

And yeah, no use buying an expensive gun if you are going to use a cheap belt/holster and make the CC a pain anyway. Make me not want to carry it one day, and Murphy's Law will pay me a visit.

Great responses so far, showed me options I never thought of. Thanks a lot, and thanks for the welcome.

[waktasz]

The Beretta 92 compact L still holds 13 rounds, not a whole lot less than the full size. I had one and liked it but 'thought' it was too big to carry. I traded it for a Glock 26 which was good, and now I carry a SIG 229, which is as big as the 92L. It's much easier once you get used to carrying but I was way nervous at first until I got used to packing the g26, which was a piece of cake.

[Smurfslayer]

M,

I didn't notice if you said this would be your first carry gun, or your first handgun period. In either case, I suggest getting 2 guns.

1: A decent .22 plinker in whatever flavor you like - wheel or semi.
2: A decent .357 magnum revolver.

I believe that you could still make your budget, and accomplish what you need. You would be able to use the dirt cheapest .38 spcl. ammo, through hot personal protection magnums.

The .22 will help make you a better shooter...

check out www.gunbroker.com.

A buddy just bought a 4" S&W model 19 .357 for $240 at the dealer, and it had a darn good trigger, and shot great.

Nothing against semis, I have several and carry one, but the wheel gun will get you on your way less expensively, and they're just as effective.

Ruger, Browning, S&W & Beretta (at least) make good .22 semis, and Taurus, S&W & ruger make good quality .357 magnums.

Good luck,
HTH

[j_a_espo]

Welcome to the Fourm. You'll find a wealth of information here and much good advice.

I agree the 9mm is a good round - it's inexpensive and of sufficient caliber. Again, as someone wrote earlier you can someday buy a larger caliber pistol if you want to. It's much better that you can aford to practice often.

What's best for you is something that will change over time - as you get more experienced with ccw you will eventually settle on a few different gun/holster arrangements that change depending upon how you must dress, jeans/shorts/suit, etc. Buy only good quality stuff that fits your body type and mode of carry. Keep the gun on you and avoid any off-body carry systems like day-planners, etc.

Get yourself a good quality IWB holster worn on the strong side. The mouth of the holster must be reinforced so that you can reholster the gun without removing the holster. Do not get a holster that forces you to use the muzzle of the gun to "dig" the holster open. That is dangerous.

A stong-side, IWB holster will work will with an un-tucked shirt. Even just a dark-color T-shirt is usually enough.

When you can't go with an untucked shirt you'll need a small revolver for front pocket carry. There are small autos but IMO nothing beats the reliability of a good revolver. If you can't afford a revolver right away then get a good ankle holster for the pistol and save your money for a while. Ankle carry is slow but at least you still have a gun. I did this for a year while I saved money for an airweight revolver.

The hard part of hiding a pistol is not the length of the barrel. It's very easy for most folks to hide a 4-inch barrel or longer. The width of the grip is what prints through your shirt and gives you away. A pistol with a single stack magazine is thinner and easier to hide. The Kahr is thin (I carry the K-9), you might also consider many of the Smith-Wesson 9mm autos like the 908.

I consider the Glock a professional's weapon and do not recommend them for the new ccw, ever. I love the Glock but the trigger is not forgiving. This is not license to be careless - keep your finger out of the trigger-guard and you'll be fine, true. But, in my opinion I would avoid the Glock for a while. get something that has a long, hard trigger for at least the first shot or go with the DAO piece like the Kahr.

Do not get in the habit of carrying with a round sometimes in the chamber and sometimes without one in the chamber - that is too confusing and might contribute to a dangerous situation.

Buy the way, get a set of good snap caps so that you can safely practice. You can even use them at the range: have someone load your magazines for you and occasionally insert a snap-cap. Keeps you on your toes.

Enjoy, have fun and stay safe.

J.

[MrMurphy]

A good way of remembering to keep your finger off the trigger is to have someone break your finger the next time you do it.:D I guarantee you'll never forget again!


The Kahr and G26 are small BECAUSE they're carry guns. My Glock 30 isn't tiny, but it's hideable with a good holster and proper dressing. And I can do it with a tucked in shirt (if it's patterned). www.comp-tac.com, the C-tac.

A carry gun is not going to be big, you're trying to hide it!

[wintermute76]

I carry a Kimber ProCarry HD in .45 ACP or a Taurus M85 .38 Spl.

In 9mm I would go with a HK P7M8 or P7PSP. You should be able to find some for around $600-650. I've fired a couple now and I find they fit my hand well, and don't seem to have as much muzzle rise as some pistols. My next handgun will probably be one.
One drawback, is they tend to be butt heavy and will need a good holster and belt.

[dairycreek]

Hmm, I never even bothered looking at the CZ cause it's Czech, but after looking at it and the specs/reviews, I must say I am sintrigued by it.

I have owned and shot all manner of Glocks and Beretta's and will not say bad things about them at all. But I would urge you to research the CZ line of pistols. They are exceedingly well made, highly reliable, and reasonably priced. I think that you will be pleased with what you find. Good shooting;)

[jercamp45]

Though 95% of the time I carry some form of 1911 in .45 acp(a Colt CCO is my current on and off duty piece), I have experimented with alot of the Nines over the years. Here's some of what I learned.
The Kahr...very sweet, small, thin pistol. Not the easiest for a beginner to manipulate the DAO trigger.....but a PM9 is one of the smallest Nines and it can be concealed in many ways! My girlfriend packs one, but she had alot of challenges learning the trigger.
The CZ's ARE Excellant. I have not played with the more compact versions that are out now. But the CZ 75 is a sweet pistol, inexpensive, reliable, and accurate. It can be combined with a Kadet .22 conversion unit too, but I have no idea if the kit will work on the midsized pistols.
Glocks work. The are chunky and do not fit my had well,but they are quite servicable pistol's, durable, reliable, and accurate enough.
Sigs are awesome! But most are a bit chunky for CCW.
Beretta? Far too large for the performance it delivers.
P7? Expensive, complicated, heavy. Unique manual of arms, thin, reliable and pretty accurate.
Keltec and Taurus compacts are OK, if that is all you can afford, but I'd get a CZ for the same general price.
No experience with Walther P99.
The S&W 3913 and 6906 were OK, but nothing to get excited about.
If I had to get a Nine to carry, I'd pick a CZ compact, but would later add a Kahr PM9 for deep concealment.
Jercamp45

[Rickstir]

I am a fairly large guy and I love my 92FS. I carry it IWB at 4:00 just behind my love handle. I usually weat a t-shirt tucked in and an over garment like a baseball jersey or a denim shirt open and out. Nobody has ever "made" me in this get up. I carry an extra mag on the opposite side. At 4:00 I can sit and not "clunk" on the chair arms. My holster is an Undercover by Orca Software. Love it.
I sometimes carry a Taurus 650 CIA in .357 also in the same brand of Orca holster styled for the snubby.

Welcome and good luck on your CCW.

[pittspilot]

My vote goes for my carry gun,

XD-9 subcompact. 11 rounds, (13 when the standard cap mags show up) of 9mm, has a grip safety to help with the Glock problem, cheaper, and is great to shoot.

[sigman69]

Any of the small glocks or a SIG P239 in 9mm....slim and accurate...