End the DC Gun Ban.


September 28, 2004, 02:24 AM
I copied this from a live journal thread on the guncontrolnow discussion group. http://www.livejournal.com/community/guncontrolnow/37497.html

""Or more specifically, the ban of guns for little people. Gun Owners of America is trying to get the D.C. Firearms ban repealed. H.R. 3193 comes up for a vote in the House next week. Get this poor excuse for law off the books. It doesn't work and only makes otherwise law abiding citizens criminals when they defend themselves. See http://www.gunowners.org/a092304.htm""

The group was started by an anti, and now there is rarely a single anti there. It is basically just pro gun folks converting the masses. The only antis that hang out are the ones who admit that safety is not their reasons for their beliefs.

Edit: The Senate bill is currently languishing in committee.

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September 28, 2004, 08:09 AM
My information is that the Senate set it aside last week. It is scheduled to be debated in the House on Wednesday, 9/29.

CSPAN broadcast (http://www.fednet.net/)

September 28, 2004, 09:55 AM
I wonder if this is another thing to get John Kerry on record as no friend of gun owners?

Either way, the DC ban should die.

BTW, is the DC ban just handguns? I swear I read Colin Peterson, a pro-gun Democrat from Minnesota, had a safe of at least hunting rifles in his office in DC.

September 28, 2004, 12:25 PM
H.R. 3193 (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c108:20:./temp/~c108K1Ngc0::)

Pistols, rifles AND ammo, including in the home.

Note how this bill affirms the RKBA as an individual right. It also underlines gun ban's ineffectiveness in curtailing crime, pointing out that only honest citizens are effected.

My Senate candidate, Jim DeMint (R-SC), co-sponsored this bill as a House member and charter member of the House Second Amendment Caucus. Orin Hatch is the good guy with another bill in the Senate.

September 28, 2004, 12:29 PM
It must have been the Congressman's local office then.

September 28, 2004, 12:37 PM
It'd be interesting to see, that if in the days after the ban is lifted, if gun sales around the DC area have a big jump.

Joe Demko
September 28, 2004, 01:04 PM
I lived in the DC area on and off in the 80's and early 90's. Big jump in sales? I doubt it. Guns were pretty common there, in those days anyway. It seemed like anybody who wanted one already had one.

September 28, 2004, 01:12 PM
Two pieces of scuttlebut I have heard about the effort to repeal the DC gun ban:

* the anti's are somewhat willing to go along with it, but not for the right reasons. Apparently a legal case against the DC gun ban is wending its way through the legal system, and they are terrified of a pro-individual rights verdict from the Supreme Court.

* this is a perfect opportunity to attach an AWB in the Senate, in which case the bill will likely die the way the liability reform bill did.

Partisan Ranger
September 28, 2004, 01:32 PM
It's encouraging to hear persistent rumblings about dropping the ban. But there are far too many in power in DC who want to keep the negroes safe from themselves. After all, the poor, helpless dears couldn't possibly handle being responsible for their own safety and properly using firearms, could they?


Gun control is racist and sexist.

September 28, 2004, 08:05 PM
rl2669 is right IMHO about the reason for this trial to remove the law. The NRA supports this after their attempt to join their suit with the CATO suit failed.

It wont make it out of the senate unless something strange happens.

Baba Louie
September 28, 2004, 08:40 PM
I don't know... In a perverted sort of way, I find it an interesting experiment in America to see the citizens in our nation's capitol so naked and helpless against evil, fully dependant upon the legislation passed and police agencies to stop crime.
Kinda like the old Berlin Wall as a symbol showing how well Communism worked... ya know?

September 28, 2004, 08:43 PM
* this is a perfect opportunity to attach an AWB in the Senate, in which case the bill will likely die the way the liability reform bill did.

I doubt it. I think there will only be DC governance issues, and there are many pending. In any case, I don't see any way the Senate would deal with it in this session. Next year's session will be a nightmare, with Constitutional amendments, gun control, Federal judge nominations, party wrangling, you name it.

The only thing I can find scheduled for tomorrow is a House Rules Committee meeting at 5 PM to establish how the bill will be treated. I suppose it could go farther in the evening. I guess that would include whether to allow amendments and whether they must be "germane". I am only familar with the Senate process.

September 28, 2004, 09:38 PM
rl2669-------Do you know where I can find any up to date info on the Cato or NRA lawsuits. Last I heard was in one the Judge was laughing about D.C having a militia and asking a law clerk to do some research and get the info back to him. Are you saying the NRA wants this done through Congress and not the courts at this time?

September 28, 2004, 10:05 PM
It'd be interesting to see, that if in the days after the ban is lifted, if gun sales around the DC area have a big jump.

Dumb question, but is it legal for residents of DC to purchase firearms out-of-district (cant say out-of-state cause its not one)?

Are there any gun shops in DC?

September 29, 2004, 03:00 AM
I don't believe so, and even if you could, posession in your house of any firearm purchased after the mid 70's is illegal. In NYC, you at least can get a "home defense liscense". DC just outright bans it.

September 29, 2004, 06:24 AM
(cant say out-of-state cause its not one)?

One of the bills in committee is to recede DC to the State of Maryland, a gun control State with no RKBA, which begs the question, how about VA instead? I guess they will do anything to get rid of Elinor Holmes Norton. I don't think the bill has many sponsors.

If you do a search on Thomas for bills and legislation using "DC", you will be overwhelmed with hits, one of which is to establish a DC militia. I assume that's a setup for a collective right interpretation for a new gun restriction.

Even if these bills never make it out of committee and expire, it's interesting to see the various moves that Congressional members make. It is a good way to measure which way the wind blows. Pretty scary stuff.

September 29, 2004, 06:50 AM
10:00 AM - HOUSE FLOOR DEBATE: The House convenes for legislative business. Nine bills are pending under suspension (ed. and two are subject to rules (the last two)):

1) H.R. 4768 - Veterans Medical Facilities Management Act of 2004 (Sponsored by Rep. Simmons / Veterans` Affairs Committee),

2) H.R. 4231 - Department of Veterans Affairs Nurse Recruitment and Retention Act of 2004 (Sponsored by Rep. Simmons / Veterans` Affairs Committee),

3) H.Res. 759 - Commending the Festival of Children Foundation for its outstanding efforts on behalf of children and expressing the support of the House of Representatives for the designation of a "Child Awareness Month" (Sponsored by Rep. Rohrabacher / Education and the Workforce Committee),

4) H.Res. 778 - Commemorating the 100th anniversary of the birth of William "Count" Basie (Sponsored by Rep. Pallone / Education and the Workforce Committee),

5) H.Res. 792 - Honoring the United Negro College Fund on the occasion of the Fund`s 60th anniversary (Sponsored by Rep. George Miller / Education and the Workforce Committee,

6) H.R. 4731 - To amend the Federal Water Pollution Control Act to reauthorize the National Estuary Program (Sponsored by Rep. Gerlach / Transportation and Infrastructure Committee),

7) H.R. 5105 - To authorize the Board of Regents of the Smithsonian Institution to carry out construction and related activities in support of the collaborative VERITAS project on Kitt Peak near Tucson, Arizona
(Sponsored by Rep. Ney / Transportation and Infrastructure Committee),

8) H.R. 3124 - F.H. Newell Building Designation Act (Sponsored by Rep. Otter / Transportation and Infrastructure Committee),

9) H.R. 1402 - Garza-Vela United States Courthouse Designation Act (Sponsored by Rep. Ortiz / Transportation and Infrastructure Committee),

H.R. 3193 - District of Columbia Personal Protection Act (Subject to a Rule) (Sponsored by Rep. Souder / Government Reform Committee),

H.J.Res. 106 - Marriage Protection Amendment (Subject to a Rule) (Sponsored by Rep. Musgrave / Judiciary Committee)


HR3193 is the DC bill.

It is interesting to note that the Marriage Protection Act is sponsored by the chairperson of the House 2A Caucus. I guess she is an ultra-conservative, but personally I would say their is conflict in considering the Constitution to merely leverage personal beliefs rather than be a BoR purist.

Anyway, internet broadcast of the House proceedings is available on FedNet (http://www.fednet.net/)

I would guess that points of interest not under suspension of the rules will be in the afternoon, probably late.

Don't get too excited about things that pass, because the Senate may effectively ignore them until the next Congress.

September 29, 2004, 08:25 AM
Quoting a Washington Post article from this morning:

"Here's another fact: D.C.'s ban deals only with handguns. More than 101,000 residents have legally registered rifles and shotguns over the decades, according to police, and residents can protect themselves with, say, a buckshot-blasting 12-gauge shotgun, a can't-miss weapon big enough to blow half the living room into the front yard."

If accurate, this indicates that handguns are banned, but rifles and shotguns must be registered. Extensive effort to find the root laws actually in question was frustrated. The current HR3193 is what we really need to understand.

One possible reference for existing law:


September 29, 2004, 08:50 AM
One of the bills in committee is to recede DC to the State of Maryland, a gun control State with no RKBA, which begs the question, how about VA instead?


That would be an incredible drain on our state. Md can have DC.


September 29, 2004, 09:21 AM

We already have our own little slice of DC...it's called PG County. I think it's time VA stepped up and took on their share:neener:

John Hicks
September 29, 2004, 10:41 AM
We did, we took Arlington :D

September 29, 2004, 10:43 AM
we'll give you DC, and the entire Potomac River.

How's that for a deal?

Harry Tuttle
September 29, 2004, 10:56 AM
AlertNet, Tue, 28 Sep 2004 3:22 PM PDT
D.C. leaders decry House bid to scrap gun laws http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N28287342.htm
WASHINGTON, Sept 28 (Reuters) - The mayor of Washington, D.C., and other top city officials on Tuesday pleaded with Congress not to overturn the capital city's gun laws, often described as the strictest in the nation.

Houston Chronicle, Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:54 PM PDT
DeLay puts hot issues on floor of U.S. House http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2820299
WASHINGTON - House Majority Leader Tom DeLay has called for votes this week on gun control and same-sex marriage measures, a move that appears to be designed to force Democrats in tight congressional races to record positions that could work against them in November.

Jack T.
September 29, 2004, 11:11 AM
they're debating it on CSPAN right now

Harry Tuttle
September 29, 2004, 11:14 AM
politicrats off the starboard bow:

Harry Tuttle
September 29, 2004, 11:19 AM
here comes my representative
anti gun Wynn of Maryland


September 29, 2004, 11:34 AM

September 29, 2004, 11:35 AM
Appears to be moving along nicely right now.....

September 29, 2004, 01:29 PM
any poison pills amendments?

September 29, 2004, 01:56 PM
any poison pills amendments?

No, the rules committee set it up so that there would be no nonsense.

The catch with this bill was that it was required to have the majority cosponsor it before coming to the floor. I think it had 222 with 50 some Democrats.

September 29, 2004, 01:57 PM
Doesn't appear to be any amendments.....

So what happens now?

I can't wait to see the voting record on this.

September 29, 2004, 01:59 PM
Dagnabit Realgun!

You and I have to stop posting at the same time:D

This is a real victory for DC residents and people in neighboring states.

Harry Tuttle
September 29, 2004, 02:46 PM
pix from screen:

September 29, 2004, 03:25 PM
I second the 'can't wait to see the voting record' part.

The Senate will be the acid test.

September 29, 2004, 03:46 PM
Here's the voting record:


September 29, 2004, 04:17 PM
The "Republican" Wolf voted against. Virginia really needs to get that guy out...

September 29, 2004, 11:06 PM
Gee, no surprises from Maryland:fire:

Vote Jane Brooks for Congress, Marylanders.

September 30, 2004, 02:34 PM
Man, Blumenauer (D) OR, sucks. He's my distirict (Portland), imagine that.:fire:

He's getting a flaming letter. No, not that kind.:evil:

cracked butt
October 1, 2004, 01:24 AM
When I read about the vote to repeal the gun ban in DC, you could have knocked me over with a feather.:D

Unfortunately one of the reps from my state (Dave Obey D.) abstained from the vote and the gutless onder has an 'A' rating from the NRA.:fire:

October 1, 2004, 05:56 AM
Obey (D) is not listed among 230 cosponsors. I would say that A rating is in jeopardy.

October 1, 2004, 06:16 AM
Here is the Senate version:

Title: A bill to restore second amendment rights in the District of Columbia.
Sponsor: Sen Hatch, Orrin G. [UT] (introduced 7/15/2003) Cosponsors (33)
Latest Major Action: 7/24/2003 Referred to Senate subcommittee. Status: Committee on Governmental Affairs referred to Subcommittee on Oversight of Government Management, the Federal Workforce, and the District of Columbia.
COSPONSORS(33), ALPHABETICAL [followed by Cosponsors withdrawn]:
Sen Allard, A. Wayne [CO] - 7/29/2003
Sen Allen, George [VA] - 7/15/2003
Sen Baucus, Max [MT] - 7/15/2004
Sen Bond, Christopher S. [MO] - 2/12/2004
Sen Brownback, Sam [KS] - 7/22/2004
Sen Bunning, Jim [KY] - 7/15/2003
Sen Burns, Conrad R. [MT] - 7/15/2003
Sen Campbell, Ben Nighthorse [CO] - 7/15/2003
Sen Chambliss, Saxby [GA] - 7/15/2003
Sen Cornyn, John [TX] - 7/15/2003
Sen Craig, Larry E. [ID] - 7/15/2003
Sen Crapo, Michael D. [ID] - 7/15/2003
Sen Domenici, Pete V. [NM] - 7/15/2003
Sen Ensign, John E. [NV] - 9/3/2003
Sen Enzi, Michael B. [WY] - 7/15/2003
Sen Graham, Lindsey O. [SC] - 7/15/2003
Sen Grassley, Charles E. [IA] - 7/15/2003
Sen Hagel, Chuck [NE] - 10/20/2003
Sen Hutchison, Kay Bailey [TX] - 7/15/2003
Sen Inhofe, Jim [OK] - 7/23/2003
Sen Kyl, Jon [AZ] - 1/20/2004
Sen Lott, Trent [MS] - 7/31/2003
Sen Miller, Zell [GA] - 7/15/2003
Sen Murkowski, Lisa [AK] - 11/24/2003
Sen Nelson, E. Benjamin [NE] - 6/9/2004
Sen Nickles, Don [OK] - 7/17/2003
Sen Reid, Harry M. [NV] - 10/21/2003
Sen Sessions, Jeff [AL] - 7/15/2003
Sen Shelby, Richard C. [AL] - 7/21/2003
Sen Stevens, Ted [AK] - 7/15/2003
Sen Sununu, John E. [NH] - 7/15/2003
Sen Talent, Jim [MO] - 11/3/2003
Sen Thomas, Craig [WY] - 7/15/2003

October 1, 2004, 07:28 AM
Never get through the senate and the reps know it.


October 1, 2004, 07:55 AM
Senior Senator Hatch will pick his battles, but I am sure he is serious about this bill. The House passage sets it up for next year. I don't see it as a Xmas tree for amendments. Rules set for the bill will tell the tale, just as it did in the House. One of the House sponsors, Jim DeMint (R-SC) will follow it when he wins a seat in the Senate.

If I understand correctly, SCOTUS has original jurisdiction in DC. If Congress doesn't want to see a direct confrontation on the 2A, threatening gun control laws in place, they need to pass this bill. I think they will.

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