Guys, honesty is the best policy...time and time again.


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.45FMJoe
September 30, 2004, 04:02 AM
Today was my friend's 21st birthday so I was the designated driver. We went to Bennigan's and had dinner and he and everyone else drank. I had one (1) ice cold pint of blue moon beer the entire night and drank diet coke for the remainder of the evening. Well, fast forward to about 20 after 3 in the morning, I finish dropping everyone off and get off of I-275 on the road that my street is off of. This light at the exit ramp and Westshore Blvd. is so long you could grow old and die waiting for. Two minutes after sitting through it, realizing I have to get up at 6:30 for work, I decide to go through the red light. Now, I slowly eased forward and made sure there was not a SINGLE set of headlights in EITHER direction and normally accelerated through the intersection. Not 1/4 mile down the road I notice the cops headlights flying up upon me. Well, I had to turn off on the street to go home anyway so I flipped my blinker on and he flipped his lights on.

So I placed my truck in park and put my hands at 10 and 2 while facing forward, awaiting further instruction. Here is our convo:

Him - "Do you know why I pulled you over?"
Me - "Yes, sir."
Him - "May I see your driver's license and registration please?"
Him - "Do you have any weapons in the car?"
Me - "Yes, sir...and a permit to carry them too."

At this point I retrieved my license and handed it to him.

Him - "Where is the weapon?"
Me - "There are two in my console here along with my permit."
Him - "Please step out of the vehicle."
Me - "Yes, sir."

He pats me down when I hop out, I placed my hands up and out to accomodate him. He then motions and tells me to stand next to the fender of my truck while he secures the weapons.

Him - "How old are you?"
Me - "22."
Him - "Where are you coming from."
Me - "It was my friend's 21st birthday and I was the designated driver."

He then retrieves my G 32, Kel-tec .380 and permit. Looks at the .380 and says:

"What is this?"
Me - "A .380"
Him - "Yeah but I mean what is it?"
Me - "Oh, a Kel-tec."
Him - "Oh, do you carry it on you sometimes?"
ME - "Yes, sir...in my pocket."
Him - "You said you know why I pulled you over, right?"
Me - "Yes, sir...I ran a red light."

Him - "They are getting expensive these days, $127. I apprechiate your honesty and c______." (Honestly I can't remember the word he used...I was a little shaken up after being pulled over.)

He hands me my license, says have a good night and walks away.



Honesty, honesty, honesty...it's the best thing in the world. I am grateful he was nice to me...I did indeed break the law, and I'm sure he just wanted to make sure I wasn't drunk or anything. I have rarely ever been pulled over and not once in over 2 years (i.e. since getting my permit) and I have always wondered what would happen if I got pulled over. Well, I found out tonight. Ironically, 3 days ago I made a decision in my life that I was never again going to get drunk. I am swearing off the liquor that used to be a common occurance with me. I have driven home from the local bar not necessarily drunk but not in top shape, either. I find it ironic that I was never pulled over during those years (I used to drink under-aged all the time) and I'm grateful that at 17 days before 23rd birthday, I have matured enough in my life to make better decisions. While runnign a red light may not have been a great decision, not drinking more than one beer and being cool, collected, honest and courteous to the officer while trying to make him feel more comfortable doing his job were all good decisions in my estimation.

No real point to my story, just still a little rattled at being pulled voer and I needed to vent.

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4570Rick
September 30, 2004, 04:18 AM
Good for you. Now, pull your shorts outa yer butt and relax. :D

swingset
September 30, 2004, 05:07 AM
"They are getting expensive these days, $127. I apprechiate your honesty and candor" (Honestly I can't remember the word he used...I was a little shaken up after being pulled over.)

That's probably it.

Browns Fan
September 30, 2004, 08:07 AM
Quote:
"Guys, honesty is the best policy"

Roger that. I have a govt job that requires a security clearance and I told them everything about getting fired from some other job I had. This other guy lied about his financial situation on his investigation and subseqentially lost his clearance and his job.

FPrice
September 30, 2004, 08:17 AM
"No real point to my story, just still a little rattled at being pulled voer and I needed to vent."

There probably is a point to your story. You were pulled over. You didn't get belligerent with the officer. You were straightforward, didn't try to BS him or challenge him. The officer probably appreciated that, AND was able to tell that you weren't drunk (probably a major problem at that time of the day) and he let you go. As he should have.

El Tejon
September 30, 2004, 08:35 AM
Candor?

.45FMJoe
September 30, 2004, 08:57 AM
Yup, candor! You got it!

FJC
September 30, 2004, 09:04 AM
Candor:

n 1: ability to make judgments free from discrimination or dishonesty [syn: fairness, fair-mindedness, candour] [ant: unfairness] 2: the quality of being honest and straightforward in attitude and speech [syn: candour, candidness, frankness, forthrightness]

Certainly seems to apply to your behavior. Glad to hear it worked out well, and thanks to you and your friends for following the "designated driver" plan.

genie
September 30, 2004, 09:52 AM
huh, from the thread title, i thought this was gonna be about getting caught by the wife when trying to sneak a new gun into the house!

glad all went well for you.

glocksman
September 30, 2004, 11:26 AM
Back when I was young and dumb, being honest with the state trooper got my speeding in a 45 zone written up as my average speed of 79 instead of the 115+ top speed.


When he asked me if I knew how fast I was going, I stuttered out 'My speedometer doesn't go that high' ('75 Caprice, 454 V8, speedometer only went to 100 mph). He laughed and then said I was doing 115 and accelerating when he flipped on his lights.

I think he went easy on me because I made him laugh. The 79 was a ticket. The 115 was potential reckless driving and a trip to jail.

Black Dragon
September 30, 2004, 12:17 PM
Had a similar run in with the long arm of the law. I was doing 15 over in a 40MPH. Told him that I was late for work I understood that I was 15 over. Had handed him my permit before we even started to talk.
He thanked me asked me to slow down and off I went to work (20 minutes
late) BUT without a ticket.:)

juggler
September 30, 2004, 12:28 PM
Since I expect courtesy and respect, I tend to treat others the same way. I admire your actions and viewpoint, and it sounds like you have your act together.
On the other hand, I've also found it better to be polite to the people who can make your life easier/harder, whether it is a cop or a waitress. :D

Wildalaska
September 30, 2004, 01:17 PM
I cant beleive you gave up your gun! Why did you even tell him! The JBTs of local law enforcement could have gunned down your entire family while you were disarmed.

You should have kept your mouth shut, refused to ID yourself, if he found out you had a permit and questioned you about the guns you should have told him directly that you are a free citizen, that your carrying a gun is a right guaranteed by the second amendment and that if he touched you it would be an assault on you that you could respond to by gunning him down like the thug he is!

Why did you even let him pat you down! What a sheeple!

WildifanyoneisinterestedironymodeoffAlaska

NOTE: FOR THE IRONICALLY CHALLENGED AND FOR LURKERS...THE ABOVE IS IRONY

FPrice
September 30, 2004, 01:25 PM
"NOTE: FOR THE IRONICALLY CHALLENGED AND FOR LURKERS...THE ABOVE IS IRONY"

Unfortunately irony is wasted on some of our more rabid members.

Battlespace
September 30, 2004, 02:27 PM
.45FMJoe - you go to the head of the class. Honesty is always the best policy.

I too used to do some mighty stupid things like driving drunk, not just intoxicated, but flat out drunk. by the grace of God I never killed or injured anyone.

Jarhed
September 30, 2004, 03:47 PM
Yes sir and no sir goes a long way with cops. My Marine emblem on the window seems to help. Of course if its a chick cop, youre screwed EVERY time. All of my tickets were written by chick cops, both of them had this attitude like maybe I looked a lot like their last boyfriend that dumped her.

LoneStranger
September 30, 2004, 03:58 PM
"NOTE: FOR THE IRONICALLY CHALLENGED AND FOR LURKERS...THE ABOVE IS IRONY"

Irony, I don't like Irony so I always by permanent press clothes so I don't have to Irony!:D

Gordon Fink
September 30, 2004, 05:35 PM
I am curious why the patrolman went right to the weapons question, but Joe may have presented a condensed version of the interview. The pat down also seems a bit unnecessary after Joe volunteered the location of his weapons. All’s well that ends well, though.

~G. Fink

SMLE
September 30, 2004, 06:49 PM
Of course if its a chick cop, youre screwed EVERY time. Not in my experience. The last time I got pulled over, it was for a broken head light on my Dad's PU. The Deputy Sheriff was female. I handed her my DL which is in a flip case with my CHL and said; "You probably want to see both of these and yes I am..." She looked at my DL then my CHL and said; "COOL! You know, it's only going to take one of you guys shooting some creep at an ATM for all the creeps in town to get a clue." I said; "Are you married, and if you are, do have a sister who thinks like you do?" She laughed and said that she WAS married and that sadly, her sister didn't think like she did. She then asked to see my registration and insurance. Now my Dad had not put his current insurance card in the truck and I was SOL if she wanted to write me a ticket, but she went back to her car, was there about 2 minutes, came back handed me my stuff and sent me on my way. Once she saw my CHL, I was automatically a "good guy". So far, all the local cops I have talked with think CCW is a great idea. Even before NM got a CCW law, the vast majority of cops were pro-gun. I have always been honest with cops about my carry status and never had a problem. A couple have asked me to step out and have secured my gun, but hey, they didn't know me from Adam and in their place, I would be careful too. All of them have been polite and all of then thanked me for being honest and open. One stated explicitly that my honesty had positivly influenced him regarding my nature and motives and told him right off the bat that I was "one of the good guys".

My 2 cents based on my experence, YMMV.

tlhelmer
September 30, 2004, 07:13 PM
Some of us are good guys!

The question is would you consider the officer a jerk if he had written you a ticket?

sumpnz
September 30, 2004, 07:25 PM
I've been pulled over a total of 5 times, twice for speeding. I've gotten 2 written and 2 verbal warnings, the other stop was a BS stop (cop claimed my car matched the description of one that was stolen, I think he was fishing). I have very little doubt that the fact that I've always had the info available for the cop before he got to my window, and been very polite (yes sir, etc) made a huge difference in just getting the warnings, rather than tickets. That and being honest.

FPrice
September 30, 2004, 08:16 PM
"Irony, I don't like Irony so I always by permanent press clothes so I don't have to Irony!"

Irony. You want irony? You can't HANDLE the irony.

BTW, how is Tonto?

Justin
September 30, 2004, 08:29 PM
NOTE: FOR THE IRONICALLY CHALLENGED AND FOR LURKERS...THE ABOVE IS IRONY

My apologies, I mistook it for condescension.

:scrutiny:

Hardtarget
September 30, 2004, 11:03 PM
I thought "designated driver" meant NO alcohol...not just the one thats had the least ammount.
mark.

carebear
October 1, 2004, 12:25 AM
One pint of beer early into a 3 or 4 hour night IS no alchohol metabolically when drive time comes.

"I was being ironic."

"Ohhhh, irony. We haven't had that here since 1986, when I was the sole practitioner; and I stopped because I got tired of people looking at me funny."

Ed
October 1, 2004, 09:53 AM
Of course if its a chick cop, youre screwed EVERY time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Last time I got pulled over it was by a female trooper with a guy riding shotgun. I was going 15MPH over the 50mph limit. She just asked what all my radios were for (ham radios and scanner) I told her and she said ok, just watch your speed. No ticket.

Got pulled over for running a stop sign by a female with another guy riding shotgun, I didn't have my insurance on me and she let me go too.

The other three times in the last 2 years have been speeding and they were guys, but they gave me written warnings too.

Guess I just need to slow down and don't press my luck.

Mad Man
October 1, 2004, 01:06 PM
"Ohhhh, irony. We haven't had that here since 1986, when I was the sole practitioner; and I stopped because I got tired of people looking at me funny."


Actually, it was 1983 (http://imdb.com/title/tt0093886/quotes).

I love that movie.


UPDATE: For those that don't want to follow the link, the actual quote is


Oh, ho, ho, irony! Oh, no, no, we don't get that here. See, uh, people ski topless here while smoking dope, so irony's not really a, a high priority. We haven't had any irony here since about, uh, '83, when I was the only practitioner of it. And I stopped because I was getting tired of being stared at.

carebear
October 1, 2004, 01:26 PM
That's the one.

If it's remotely on topic I'll occasionally bust out with "Worms! I'm afraid of WORMS, Roxanne!"

Noone ever gets it.... :(

Zach S
October 1, 2004, 07:48 PM
There's just something about a fine woman in uniform that drives me nuts. take an average girl, put her in a LE uniform, instant hottie. Dont ask me to explain it, because I dont understand it.

This happened several years ago, so I'm pretty much paraphrasing, if I had a cam, the video would be priceless. A few buddies and myself went, um, somewhere here in the southeast, I cant remember if this happened in NC or not. The insurace on my car had lapsed, so I had a block on my tag (I got it re-instated however hadn't ran by the DMV yet to straighten it out, so I kept proof of coverage with me). I notice the car behind me, then see blue lights. The other guys in the car knew I've got this thing for women in uniform, and one of them said "I hope its not a chick!" or something to that effect. He jinxed me. When she stepped out of the car, the other guy in the back said "Holy S***." I thought he was messing with me. When she got to my window, I could see he wasnt. So we had the usual coversation ("license, registration, know why I stopped ya, ect"), meanwhile all my buddies are getting a good chuckle because I was distracted. I thought I was palying it off pretty well, but from there it went downhill.

"Sir, are you stoned?" She asked that and the chuckles turned into laughter.

"No, why do you ask?"

"You just, dont seem 'all there,' if you know what I mean."

"I could explain, but I'd rather not." Never say that to a cop, NEVER. Trust me on this.

"Please do."

So I tell her I had a thing for women in uniform, and when I saw her outside my window, "the blood left my brain and went, elsewhere." I think that threw her off guard, obviously made her uncomfortable. Her body language told me that much, since her left hand was on her issue glock, and her right hand was opening my door while she was asking me to step out. The other guys in the car were laughing almost hystericly by now.

"I'd rather not"

<snap> "I'm not asking twice"

I complied at this point, rather than getting out of the car at gunpoint. Once I stepped out of the car, she realized that I wasnt joking.

"nevermind, get back in the car." the almost hysterical laughter I mentioned earlier, was beyond hysterical at this point. She asked for my keys, and took them and my papers to her car. I told the guys with me that if I got hauled in, they had to pay my bail, and I had an extra igntion key stuck in my sunvisor. She brought my stuff back, and told me that while honesty is the best policy, there is such a thing as being "too honest," then she sent me on my way.

Strings
October 2, 2004, 12:16 AM
Zach... you owe me a new moniter and keyboard. THAT needed a warning!

c_yeager
October 2, 2004, 03:54 AM
Out of curiosity did you give him permission to search your car or did he just decide that your owning a firearm gave him probably cause? Good thing for you one of your buddies didnt drop his "stash" under the seat when you got pulled over. I bet you would have wished you'd said "No officer i dont have a weapon" then.

I'm not saying thats a good idea. But it is the other side of the coin.

dinosaur
October 2, 2004, 07:01 AM
I worked steady 12x8s and hated car stops. Mostly the dregs are out there then, car thieves, drunks etc. Consequently if I stopped someone, they were probably going to wind up in the House of Many Doors.

Once in awhile though you run into the guy going to work the odd hour job or coming home from a date. Since there weren't that many good guys on the road at that hour and unless they were being stupid in a public place, a real charge, honest:neener: I'd let them go on their way.

In your case he knows the light is way long. However, now he has his probable cause to make a car stop. Bad guy? We know who you are. Good guy, eh why bother? The problem is today with racial profiling they want paper on every stop in some places. Some cops figure if they have to fill out more paperwork when they let someone slide might as well just do a summons and justify the stop.:banghead:

dustind
October 2, 2004, 09:34 PM
WildAlaksa: Why don't you give that speech to the people in Minnesota that have been arrested for legally carrying firearms with a permit.

Wildalaska
October 3, 2004, 02:31 PM
And your point is?

WildherewegoagainAlaska

tyme
October 3, 2004, 06:15 PM
I cant beleive you gave up your gun! Why did you even tell him! The JBTs of local law enforcement could have gunned down your entire family while you were disarmed.

You should have kept your mouth shut, refused to ID yourself, if he found out you had a permit and questioned you about the guns you should have told him directly that you are a free citizen, that your carrying a gun is a right guaranteed by the second amendment and that if he touched you it would be an assault on you that you could respond to by gunning him down like the thug he is!

Why did you even let him pat you down! What a sheeple!

WildifanyoneisinterestedironymodeoffAlaska

NOTE: FOR THE IRONICALLY CHALLENGED AND FOR LURKERS...THE ABOVE IS IRONY
That, uhh, "irony" does not address whether:
1) It's constitutional to require someone to inform a police officer when that someone is exercising an enumerated constitutional right
2) It's constitutional to disarm someone during a minor traffic stop
3) It's constitutional to require someone to ID him/herself during a traffic stop
4) It's ethical to give someone a break on a ticket because they have a good attitude or present a CHL

You can gripe about the apparent stupidity of someone who has a different concept of constitutionality than you, but there is a whole chain of logic between interpreting the Constitution and deciding that pragmatism is the best policy. Various parts of the chain have been discussed before, but there is no consensus that it is correct. It remains the case that many great historical figures would not agree with the links you place in that chain. Insulting their memory, contribution, and importance through irony is not going to win any converts among the "more rabid members" here.

sendec
October 3, 2004, 06:43 PM
yes
yes
yes
yes

I am firmly convinced that some people would complain if a cop smashed out a window to save kittens from a fire - "What, no warrant? It doesnt say ANYTHING about a kitten exception to the warrant requirement in the Constitution! To the rooftops!"

Mad Man
October 3, 2004, 09:07 PM
I am firmly convinced that some people would complain if a cop smashed out a window to save kittens from a fire

Likewise, some other people wouldn't complain if a cop threw kittens into a fire.

carebear
October 4, 2004, 01:38 PM
That depends, were they bad kittens?

Shootcraps
October 4, 2004, 02:04 PM
I am firmly convinced that some people would complain if a cop smashed out a window to save kittens from a fire


I would. I hate cats. :evil:

I never argue when I'm pulled over. I just say, "Yes I was going xxx speed, or I was just following the flow of traffic". I know I was going over the limit. No harm no foul.

When they give me a ticket I say have a nice day.

Sam Adams
October 4, 2004, 05:01 PM
I had a similar experience in MD about 15 years ago.

I was driving from NJ to a friend's wedding in VA. It was Friday afternoon, I was in my dad's red Corvette, and I was doing 67 on cruise control in a 55 in the middle lane, pretty much like everyone else. Everyone else, that is, except for the geezer in the 196? POS Dodge Dart in front of me. OK, I looked around and saw no cops, and the radar was dead silent. I passed him (using the blinker properly at both ends) quickly and settled back down to 67. 30 seconds later I got nailed by a middle-aged cop.

So, here I was, a 27-year-old schmuck in a red 'Vette with out of state plates, nabbed by the MD state troopers (who don't exactly have a reputation for leniency). I could just about hear the laughter from all of the cars that were passing me, and I was imagining not being able to drive the car again-ever (Dad's last words to me as I rolled down the driveway were "Don't speed!").

I had my hands on the wheel at 10 & 2. License, registration and insurance card ready. Car off, radio off. Window down. Naturally, the officer asked me if I knew why I got pulled over. I told him that I knew I was speeding, and that I probably bumped over 70 in passed the Dart, but that I didn't know the exact number. I also apologized for doing it, and called him "Sir" every chance I got.

Guess what! I got a warning. 27 years old, speeding in a red Vette with out of state plates, and I got a warning!:D :D :D

It shows that honesty pays. It also makes sense to try not to hand the kind officer a steaming load for an excuse. You see, he's heard every excuse for speeding known to Man, and if you hand him a load of bull then what you have really done is to call him an idiot who can't tell the truth from something you made up in 30 seconds while panicking after you got pulled over.

P.S. I didn't tell Dad about the incident until after he sold the car. He just :rolleyes:

SOT_II
October 4, 2004, 05:13 PM
honesty and candor

Do do that again...

Kestrel
October 5, 2004, 12:28 AM
I've been pulled over about 12 times in the last 20 years and I've never mentioned I had a gun in the car. Is that supposed to be a requirement?

SOT_II
October 5, 2004, 12:29 AM
Depends on the state.
I am pretty sure if they ask you MUST tell them in every state.

rritter
October 5, 2004, 01:37 PM
One side note to some of these stories - when I get pulled over, I always answer 'No, sir' when the cop asks if I knew why I was being stopped. I'm not a mind reader, after all, and I don't want to admit to a violation that the officer isn't interested in.

A case in point: several years ago I was stopped by a New Hampshire police officer while I was driving about 10 mph over the limit. I thought I was being stopped for speeding, but still answered 'No'. Turned out I was being stopped because I didn't have an inspection sticker on the windshield. The officer never mentioned my speed. When I showed my registration, the officer saw that I was still within the grace period for getting the car inspected (I had just moved to NH, and you have something like 10 days to get the inspection done after registering the car). He just reminded me to get it done before the deadline and sent me on my way. If I had answered "Well, I was speeding", I might have gotten a ticket!

Roger

Zach S
October 5, 2004, 01:43 PM
Zach... you owe me a new moniter and keyboard. THAT needed a warning! It had one. It was pretty subtle, but it was there...

...if I had a cam, the video would be priceless...

Oh, sorry 'bout your monitor and keyboard...

Cosmoline
October 5, 2004, 01:54 PM
Nothing attacts LEO's like LOOOONG red lights on isolated roads and burnt out tail lights. I do get the very strong feeling that most law enforcement these days is about raising $$$ for the government. With minimum fines so high, it's getting tough to tell the difference between paying a bribe to some Mexican cop and paying a ticket here. Though at least with the Mexican, you know some of your money is going to the cop himself not just the fat cats.

Zach S
October 5, 2004, 02:33 PM
Most of the LEOs I've ran into didnt seem like that. At one time I was one point away from losing my driver's license, so I've ran into more than a few.

Note that I said "most."

Cosmoline
October 5, 2004, 02:40 PM
The cops themselves can be really great. But I'm pretty sure in most departments someone is on their case to get more and more fines issued in order to raise more money. Those minimum fines hit poor folks like a brick to the head. But that's not the LEO's fault.

sendec
October 5, 2004, 03:57 PM
In most jurisdictions the money from fines goes to the county or city municipal court, from where it goes into the city or county treasury. It typically does not go directly to the issuing agency and in fact they may never see money that can be identified as coming from traffic fines, though that money is in the city or county coffers. While it may generate revenue as such, it is a very inefficient and costly way of doing so.

Of course their are notable and egrigious examples, mostly involving small town agencies with mayor's court. New Rome Ohio is a good example of a tiny burg that made gazillions thru fines. It musta worked too well cause the state and a couty judge basically disolved them as a political enitity, literally putting them out of business. I believe their are a couple small towns in Fla that are similar.

One of the hidden goals of traffic enforcement is traffic safety education. A citation is negative reinforcement, while a break is positive. Like a good grade, breaks typically result from drivers acknowledging that educational component.

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