The World Is Filled With Junk Guns


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ArmaLube
February 23, 2003, 02:43 PM
.

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9x19
February 23, 2003, 03:23 PM
Thanks.

Blackhawk
February 23, 2003, 03:36 PM
Are you one of those who favors laws regulating what can be sold instead of letting the market work? :rolleyes:

dude
February 23, 2003, 03:45 PM
supply/demand

Akurat
February 23, 2003, 04:27 PM
Mmmk thanks for the guidelines..

Skunkabilly
February 23, 2003, 04:59 PM
LAPD Chooses Kimber! :D

gryphon
February 23, 2003, 05:00 PM
UM, okay?:confused:

arinvolvo
February 23, 2003, 05:08 PM
Wow Armalube...THANKS!! Great post...

By the way, I was wondering...I was considering another purchase...Do you think I could just send you some money, and you could pick a nice gun out for me?
:scrutiny:

Jason Demond
February 23, 2003, 05:31 PM
If this post helps one new shooter pick a first gun, it's worth it.

ArmaLube
February 23, 2003, 05:50 PM
.

hksw
February 23, 2003, 05:59 PM
Although generally sound advice, there are some situations where it's difficult to apply. Some people simply cannot afford an HK P7 or a Glock or even a CZ75. There are some manufacturers who do make basic reliable platforms that most 'in the know' gun buyers and enthusiast would quickly look down upon simply because they are not top-notch quality, not made of the latest metals or plastics, or are state of the art, etc. All of that cost money, money that the manufacturer passes on to the buyer, and money that the buyer must pay. Some don't have all of that money.

In short, for new shooters, research what you can buy and buy the best that your money will allow. There are plenty of forums like THR where unbiased opinions can be read for research. Keep in mind, however, the opinions that only count from the ones that actually own or have extensively shot (more than say 50 or 100 rounds) the gun in question. Throw out the opinions of the gun snobs who have never shot the gun.

10-Ring
February 23, 2003, 06:38 PM
What maybe junk for one, may be value to others. Consider the little old lady, on a fixed income in the hood who buys an inexpensive gun to keep in her purse as proctection when she does her marketing or banking etc.

sm
February 23, 2003, 06:54 PM
Just me perhaps.

We get new shoooters for CCW. Unlike myself whom was raised with firearms...I'm learning and surprised how many today are not raised with firearms in the household. Get a lady, divorced parents, raised by mom...has no clue about guns...and have a gunshop owner have at her...vulnerable...

So we educate, suggest/help with choosing platform. So when said lady is going to inherit uncles model 12 and the gunshop owner said it was a piece of junk and he would only give a $150 for it...or allow on trade for something...She called to ask about "What is a model 12?".

Her small hometown gunshop owner will not get any of her business, she kept the model 12,learning to use,and bought a used model 10 here in the Big City for CCW.

She didn't know, asked, and better off.

Older I get -- the dumber I realize I am. Bunch of stuff I do not know about. My questions may sound stupid to someone familiar in/knowlegeable about---my money and I gotta learn somehow.

IMO

Chainsaw
February 23, 2003, 07:02 PM
Hopefully you won't tell me that I should not have bought my Kel-Tec P-11.

What's a poor boy to do?
Surely you are not for poor people going unarmed!!! Say it ain't so Joe Armalube:uhoh:

Kahr carrier
February 23, 2003, 07:27 PM
Cool guide lines the old saying You get what you pay for.But I think inexpensive guns are okay they are people on limited or low incomes that cant afford a nicer gun . Something is better than nothing.:D

Gewehr98
February 23, 2003, 07:30 PM
I think?:confused:

Of the couple dozen handguns in my safes, I'm sure somebody, somewhere would consider at least a few to be "junk" for some reason or another. Some of the Jewish persuasion would consider my 1918 DWM Luger to be one. Owners of a $2K Valtro would consider my Norinco IPSC race gun to be one. The Desert Eagle gets all sorts of snide comments. But there's that old saying, "Opinions are like @$$holes..." Quite befitting, since I'm the one having fun shooting each and every one of the guns, not the person telling me they're junk.

P95Carry
February 23, 2003, 07:49 PM
I don't see a problem with ''preaching to the choir'' ........ cos actually some choir members may well be quite new to things ... and so if it makes em think a tad harder before buying that ''great value'' Jennings, Raven, Lorcin etc .. that's good.

Mention has been made about budgets .. and I have made a few concessions for that reason .... going sometimes for shall we say ''medium grade'' instead of top, because of what I could afford. I would cite an example as my two Taurus wheel guns ..... pretty acceptable ''Smith clones'' in many respects ... and I would not punish them to the same degree ..... they are IMO however value for money. My Rugers, Smith etc .. are definitely in their own league, but not everyone has huge sums available for top ranking purchases .. certainly not always when starting out.

Despite my well advanced years and experience with shooting, I still consider myself learning even now.

Akurat
February 23, 2003, 07:52 PM
a. The teachers
b. The students
c. A few who are hopelessly retarded, malicious, and unable to learn

d. People who make posts simply to advertise their website...and get angry with those who notice.

gryphon
February 23, 2003, 08:02 PM
What I do not understand is that people are posting things with inflamatory or controversial subject lines, then have a coniption fit when people disagree, don't see the value in it or are just plain disgusted.

When you start out with "The World Is Filled With Junk Guns", then go on a diatribe of what you should do to select only a "quality" firearm just reeks of arrogance to me. The "colorful" descriptions of peoples mental capacity later on in the thread only causes a reader to think even less of the original post.

I think that the post would have been better received and been taken more seriously if the subject line had been along the lines of "Guidlines For Selecting a Firearm".

Remember, words mean things, and perception is reality.

Gewehr98
February 23, 2003, 08:10 PM
d. People who make posts simply to advertise their website...and get angry with those who notice.

It was sort of a shameless plug, wasn't it? Dunno if it lends any credibility to the inflammation, though. ;)

Navy joe
February 23, 2003, 08:18 PM
I now own 5"junk" guns. A CAI Garand, a CZ-52, M-44 carbine,a Makarov, and a Pietta New Army BP. With the exception of the CAI's reciever all demonstate adequate workmanship. Besides, I'm shooting the heck out of all but the BP(no accessories yet). I shoot them well, and they are a fun break from my standard and very expensive guns. Matter of fact they are really fun. It's good advice to buy from a gum maker with a good rep, it's bad to sneer towards others who might just like their...Junk.


7. Subscribe to handgun magazines to help maintain your awareness of the latest products and technology.

Hey, at least Armalube has a sense of humor. :evil:

COHIBA
February 23, 2003, 08:28 PM
yeah. screw poor people. they dont deserve to defend themselves. they should forego food, insurance, ect. and move to better neighborhoods. doesnt the constitution say something about the right of the "well off" people "who can afford HK's" shall not be infringed?

dude
February 23, 2003, 09:13 PM
#7!!!

.....what a friggin joke
It only gives you insight into who is passing the $$$ whom


Funny when I read #6, I pictured Algore speaking.

firestar
February 23, 2003, 09:47 PM
I don't see how this topic is at all controversial.:confused: I took it for granted what the original poster wrote.

He never called any of your guns junk, he just made a statement that YOU interpreted. It speaks more about what you really think about your gun than what he thinks about your gun. For example, what if I said "People who can't shoot a handgun accuratly probably need more pratice or a more accurate gun." and you came back and said something like, "Who the hell are you to tell me I need more practice?". That to me would indicate that you are either a bad shot or at least you think you are. Same thing here, nobody said your gun was junk but some of you are getting pretty defensive. Think about it.:scrutiny:

standingbear
February 23, 2003, 10:21 PM
ive had some of my guns called junk.all in the eye of the beholder.some are junk really.especially when it blows up in your hand(is it too late to fish out that ol jennings from the river bottom?)

sm
February 23, 2003, 10:38 PM
and all...My first reply was in reference to new shooters w/o prior exposure.

I still feel , and I/we suggest to shooters to ask questions, have someone with more experience and knowledge to educate, assist with purchases.

I don't subscribe to handgun magazines--I do have SWAT delivered though. I don't like some of the modern designs--especially the ones with "built in gun safety systems[gun locks]).

I like and recommend the Colt Woodsman, Model 18, High Standard Duramatics(and other quality HS rimfires). Nothing wrong with a pre series 70 GM...anybody have a Singer made 1911...being as it's old, and not in a gun magazine...ain't worth nothing...I'll take it off your hands.

I assure you if I Don't know I will ask about a brand, make , model...just because its not a pricey pc...or has been flashed in advertising, doesn't mean it is not a quality, dependable, reliable firearm.
Keltec , CZ's, once "unknowns" and not pricey have certainly proven themselves...

arinvolvo
February 23, 2003, 10:39 PM
Armalube...By posting those guidelines, you are assuming that without your guidance we would all do the following:

1. Choose only firearms of non-established bottom rung quality.
2. Stick with poor manufacturers of the lowest reputation.
3. Remain ignorant of the specific firearms of interest so as to stay unaware of the relevant experiences of others.
4. Do not understand the applicable safety features in advance.
5. Do not pay special attention to manufacturers' reputations for quality control, customer service, and product warrantys.
6. Do not evaluate handgun features that represent state-of-the-art advancements. Firearm design technology has progressed relatively slowly, but gradual and meaningful advances have been made.
7. Do not subscribe to handgun magazines to help maintain your awareness of the latest products and technology.
8. Learn to inspect both new and used firearms poorly for defects prior to purchasing. Many examples of poor workmanship, handling damage, poor ergonomics, etc. are readily perceivable upon unskilled examination.
9. Concentrate on firearms that have known reputations for excessive failures, defects, poor quality, etc. Conversely, stay away from those that receive the most praise.
10. A good handgun should feel uncomfortable in your hand. Sharp edged features are a good sign.


Do you think we are all retarded? If people dont know these things, they shouldnt own a handgun to begin with.

I think you may be getting a little flack from your post because THR members consider themsleves at least half-way competent when it comes to gun ownership..etc...

It is preaching to the choir...but the choir is ticked off that you thought you needed to preach....maybe that is it.

dude
February 23, 2003, 10:54 PM
a simple 'IMHO' in the title of his thread would have made the whole thing not come across as such a know-it-all, condesending .............and to some insulting..........diatribe.

Gewehr98
February 23, 2003, 11:35 PM
Kinda reminded me of that guy in Kentucky Fried Movie, the member of the Danger Seekers group, who jumped into the middle of a street craps game and shouted the unconscionable before hightailing it down the street. :eek:

MJRW
February 24, 2003, 12:09 AM
Really, thank you. But tell me something please. Will armalube make my junk guns fire like real guns? Where do I sign up!?!?

RON in PA
February 24, 2003, 12:39 AM
What a load of pomposity and what does a guy from New York know anyway.

Gewehr98: This person of the Jewish persuasion does not think a DWM Luger is junk, not anymore so than my 1939 Mauser Luger. One of the founders of DWM, a Herr Ludwig Loewe was of the same persuasion.

Blackhawk
February 24, 2003, 01:03 AM
Well, Armalube, I can assure you that after investigating and using all kinds of lubricants over decades of shooting and extensive experience from both a user and design perspective that I do use the very best treatment and lubricant available for my guns.

They are Moly-Fusion and FP-10, respectively. :p

boing
February 24, 2003, 01:40 AM
arinvolvo :D

Right on target.

Perhaps Armalube will give us a safety lesson next. :D

Really, except for the subscription thing [ :rolleyes: ], it's sound advice, but it's not like we're brain damaged or something.

Thanks, anyway. :)

arinvolvo
February 24, 2003, 02:24 AM
boing....thanks for the support....I do not deny Armalube's intentions...I am sure they are noble....

But even though this information is sound....it seems almost an insult to preach...

Here at THR these type of things are taken for granted....We just assume that people here have this knowledge....

I dont think that Armalube meant any harm by his post....but i easily understand why forum members may have taken offense at this "daddy like" lecture.

boing
February 24, 2003, 03:12 AM
"Here at THR these type of things are taken for granted....We just assume that people here have this knowledge...."

It's not just here, and it's not just guns. Most of the points are just basic Common Sense Consumerism, applicable to any product on the market, and known by just about anyone who exchanges money for goods.

Pico
February 24, 2003, 07:06 AM
Buy what you want, it's your money after all.

Regarding the 10 Commandments...

Number 7: "Subscribe to handgun magazines..."

No No No. Dont spend any money on these rags and their slanted viewpoints. Go to the range or gun show. Talk to real people instead. ACTUALLY SHOOT SOMETHING INSTEAD OF READING ABOUT IT FOR GOD"S SAKE!

Pico

ojibweindian
February 24, 2003, 08:13 AM
I thought it was pretty good advice. About the only thing I would disagree with is 7. And I take exception to #7 because of great firearms boards such as THR and the late, great, TFL!

Al Thompson
February 24, 2003, 08:33 AM
Welcome to The High Road, an online discussion board dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership. It is the declared mission of this board to achieve and provide the highest quality of firearms discussion on the Internet, a standard set by the discussion board The Firing Line from 1998-2002.

And Rule 4 - 4.) Spamming, trolling, flaming, and personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree with other members, even vehemently, but it must be done in a well-mannered form. . Attack the argument, not the arguer.

My take is that Armalube is presenting his idea's on how to avoid new folks getting taken. As an assistant RO in SC's CWP class, this is not bad advice. I get to see folks with junk guns once a quarter

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