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Stinkyshoe
October 1, 2004, 01:44 PM
I recieved this in my email box. Is there anyone familiar with this? Does such an organization exist and function like the article says?
"Are you looking for Work?

ISRA
Confiscation of Registered Guns Begins in Illinois
Wed Sep 29, 2004 17:43
64.140.158.156
Confiscation of Registered Guns Begins in Illinois
http://www.kc3.com/news/chicago_confiscation.htm
The Chicago Police Department and the Illinois State Police have teamed up to make good on Mayor Daley's pledge that, if it were up to him, nobody would have a gun. Daley and his elite "CAGE" unit are apparently taking advantage of gun privacy loopholes to pinpoint certain individuals for inclusion in the confiscation program.
hicago Anti Gun Enforcement (CAGE) unit. This elite squad, operated jointly by the Illinois State Police, the Chicago Police Department, and the Cook County State's Attorney's Office, supposedly exists to identify illegal gunrunners. However, information gained by the ISRA makes it clear that the CAGE unit is targeting law-abiding citizens, not criminal gunrunners.
The ISRA is following up on leads in one case that has disturbing implications. An elderly first-generation Chicago resident was recently paid a visit by an Illinois State Police trooper. After asking to come inside the man's home, the trooper asked if the man owned a gun - to which he replied yes. The trooper then directed the individual to surrender the firearm. The man complied with the officer's demand and the trooper left with the gun. And the story gets better...
The gun in question was purchased legally by the man in the 1970s shortly after he became a U.S. citizen. When Chicago's infamous gun registration scheme went into effect in the early 1980s, the man registered the firearm as per the requirement. However, over the years, the fellow apparently forgot to re-register the firearm, and forgot to renew his Illinois FOID Card.
So...what does this all mean?
In the last edition of The Illinois Shooter, we reported on the activities of a shady taskforce known as the Chicago Anti Gun Enforcement (CAGE) unit. This elite squad, operated jointly by the Illinois State Police, the Chicago Police Department, and the Cook County State's Attorney's Office, supposedly exists to identify illegal gunrunners. However, information gained by the ISRA makes it clear that the CAGE unit is targeting law-abiding citizens, not criminal gunrunners.
Thanks to a ruling by a liberal federal judge, the CAGE unit now has the name of every single person in the United States who, since 1992, lawfully purchased more than one handgun in the period of a week. The CAGE unit also has all the makes, models and serial numbers of those guns. In essence, the Chicago Police Department is now registering guns and gun owners nationwide.
The ISRA has also learned that the CAGE unit has compiled a list of families where more than one person in that family holds a FOID card. Acting on that information, the CAGE unit is now contacting gun shops where those families have shopped, and is illegally registering all guns purchased by those families.
Now, it appears that the CAGE unit is scrubbing Chicago's gun registration list against the list of FOID card holders. Indications are that folks who have let their registrations and FOIDs lapse will have their guns confiscated. We have to wonder how long it will be until state troopers show up at the doors to confiscate the guns of non-Chicago residents who have let their FOIDs expire.
More later as this story develops.
Source: Illinois State Rifle Association
http://www.isra.org"

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Edward429451
October 1, 2004, 01:59 PM
Yeah but, we're not a police state.

CCW holders are next.

OF
October 1, 2004, 02:06 PM
If you ever wanted to know why you draw the line at registering your guns, there it is.

DO NOT REGISTER YOUR FIREARMS. Lest you be forced into a real choice.

- Gabe

joe sixpack
October 1, 2004, 02:09 PM
Wow, with gun confiscation and mental health screening for all
children and pregnant women, Illinois is helping to lead the way!

http://www.newswithviews.com/NWVexclusive/exclusive32.htm

cheers, js

R.H. Lee
October 1, 2004, 06:00 PM
An egregious misuse of police resources. I assume then the crime rate in Chicago is zero, otherwise those resources would be otherwise occupied protecting the good people of the city. :rolleyes: I certainly hope the "authorities" in other areas are not under the false impression this can be done in their respective "jurisdictions".

JoeWang
October 1, 2004, 06:17 PM
That place is going down the socialist toilet fast. I used to live there and loved it.

But just try speeding in that state lately and you'll realize how much of a budget the LE has over there. Talk about a police state. With all that revenue the ISP gets from the tollway transgressions they can afford to appoint special gun confiscation programs.

My wife's father was murdered by some drug dealers that later turned state's evidence on another crime to walk away clean. The cops (CPD) had confiscated her fathers long gun collection (20 pcs or more) and when the family went to collect the cops said "what guns?" That was in '87; I'm sure its gotten worse now.

Glad I left the Peoples' Republik of Illinois. I'll never go back there.

Stinkyshoe
October 2, 2004, 12:30 AM
Gabe
I agree with you. But I would think that even being a member of these boards is a form of registration. "They" can figure out who we are and list us as gun owners. I hate gun registration. Just like locks keep honest men honest, so does our knowledge of right and wrong keep us from using guns wrongly(or a spoon or baseball bat). Criminals don't have this sense, and they don't care about right or wrong.
It is not because some of us have bought registered guns that forces us to make a tough choice in the event of confiscation...it is because there are those in the world who wish to take our most basic and valuable freedoms. You are right though, don't register them.
How there would be a real American, ready to serve the public as a peace officer, and be brainwashed into thinking that confiscating guns actually was doing the right thing, is beyond me. Maybe it is the offering of the tough guy appeal and getting to wear black and have a power trip everyday at "work".

4v50 Gary
October 2, 2004, 12:37 AM
Herr Burgemeister Daly wants to make it safe for the criminals.

OF
October 2, 2004, 10:15 AM
But I would think that even being a member of these boards is a form of registration. While a CCW (unless you live in a state where the firearm itself is listed on the permit) and registration in a newsgroup, shooting club, etc. brand you as a (likely) gun-owner, there is no specific information that you have a specific firearm in your possession. There is no known 'item' to be confiscated. Nothing that if a search didn't turn up you would have to account for. Worlds of difference.It is not because some of us have bought registered guns that forces us to make a tough choice in the event of confiscation...it is because there are those in the world who wish to take our most basic and valuable freedoms.While I understand your point, confiscation is a very real threat and as such the line must be drawn at registration. If you register your guns with the state, and the state decides to outlaw your firearms you will be forced into a choice you do not want to make: do you give them up when they come for them, or do you not. Refusing to register is your last passive mode of resistance. It is your last peaceful choice.

The 4473 should be seen as a possible de facto registration and avoided where possible. If you buy guns over the counter on 4473's you should know which guns have paper trails and which do not. Make the decision ahead of time what you would do if they came for the guns with paper. The registration issue should be the number one point fueling resistance to the abolition of private sales and gun shows. Private sales are the last legal method of transferring weapons without leaving a trail for the gov't to follow.

"Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in." This is not fantasy. There are people in congress right now who are a vote away from making this, their mission in life, a reality. Prepare for the worst and work for the best. By refusing to register you move towards putting yourself in a better tactical position should your enemy seize power. Even if you would be willing to give up your 'playtime' guns if the choice was shoot or hand them over, registering your fighting guns is a blunder that patriots cannot afford to make. And if you believe, as I do, that this country is the last best hope for individual freedom on this planet, it's a mistake mankind can not afford to make.

Prove George Orwell wrong: don't register your guns.

- Gabe

Onmilo
October 2, 2004, 01:11 PM
Ok so here is "the rest of the story".
A friend of mine works for the Illinois State Police as a Firearm Violation Investigator.
The state does not willingly confiscate firearms from its law abiding citizens.
Key words are "Law Abiding".
The State of Illinois requires citizens that are in possession of any firearms larger than caliber .177 pellet guns to be in possession of a current and active Illinois Firearm Owners Identification Card, and yes that does include caliber 5mm(.20 cal.) and .22 caliber pellet guns, pistol or rifle.
These "Gun Cards" cost $5.00 plus maybe another $5.00 to have your picture taken and postage etc.
The card is good for FIVE years. that works out to $2.00 a year to legally own a gun here and the card is easier to get than a drivers license, no test required.
Don't be a doper, a felon or one of the very mentally challenged and congrats., you too can own a gun here.
The good citizen who had his weapon confiscated did not have a current card, he let it lapse.
The elderly citizen had also threatened to shoot another elderly citizen over an altercation.
Threats of bodily harm that are reported to law enforcement in the State of Illinois do tend to garner a lot of interest from the investigating officers.
Please note that while the good citizens firearm was indeed confiscated, no charges for the battery were brought against him and he is a free man today, just sans his pistola.
Do I support and favor the Firearm Owners Identification?
About the same way I favor all drivers having a current license to operate a motor vehicle.
Read that any way you want to.
If you don't like the law, vote for people who will do something to change it.
If you don't, or won't, then all you are doing is whining.

OF
October 2, 2004, 01:41 PM
Key words are "Law Abiding".Got that right. Who gets to define the law? The state.

I think it's clear from your post that the 2nd Amendment isn't on your 'favorite freedoms' list.

- Gabe

Onmilo
October 2, 2004, 02:01 PM
Where does being law abiding violate the second amendment?
I don't make the laws, I try to abide by them though, like them or not.
Does the Illinois Firearm Owners Identification infringe on a law abiding citizens right to own a firearm?
No more than a driver license infringes on a persons priviledge to drive a car.
Oh yeah, we are talking about rights and priviledges here aren't we?
Break the law, lose your rights and priviledges.
Like it or not that is our system of law in this country.

Edward429451
October 2, 2004, 02:08 PM
Like it or not that is our system of law in this country.

Only in practice! Otherwise NOT!

The only time Defacto trumps Dejure is when good men do nothing to take a stand for their rights.

If you tell a lie long enough, people will come to see it as truth. Which is what we have here.

sfhogman
October 2, 2004, 02:15 PM
You know, rights and privileges really aren't the same thing.....

The state can protect your rights (or not), and grant privileges.
Ferearm ownership is a right.
A driver's license is a privilege.

It's the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Privileges.

Rant over.

(after all that I sure hope I spelled "privilege" right. Oh well.)

J Miller
October 2, 2004, 02:15 PM
In IL in order to possess firearms or ammunition you must have a FOID card.
F = Firarms
O = OWNERS
I = Identification
D = "


This is a gun OWNER REGISTRATION card. The state doesn't need to register guns, they just register gun owners. There is no reason on earth to have a FOID card if you don't own or have access to guns.
So, the state knows where all the guns are. When, not if, but when they get enough votes in the legislature to state banning them, they don't have to look far to find them. Just to the FOID list.


Joe

OF
October 2, 2004, 02:16 PM
Suffice it to say, you are dead wrong, Onmilo. We've been down this road over and over again. I suggest you search and read some of the extremely lengthy discussions on this topic here before cementing your stand.Does the Illinois Firearm Owners Identification infringe on a law abiding citizens right to own a firearm?The fact that you could ask this question without understanding the answer shows a very serious lack of understanding on the nature of rights, the definition of law-abiding, the bill of rights and the relationship between the citizen and the state in this country.

I hope you enjoy the reading.

- Gabe

Highland Ranger
October 2, 2004, 02:18 PM
Does the Illinois Firearm Owners Identification infringe on a law abiding citizens right to own a firearm?No more than a driver license infringes on a persons priviledge to drive a car.

You are confusing right and privledge.

Owning a gun and self defense are rights and should not be regualted by the state. The second amendment, sans the modern bastardization and reinterpertation of it, guarantees the right to keep and bear arms.

Driving is a privledge, not covered by the bill of rights . . . . hence the regulation.

(you picked the wrong board to play with this one)

Onmilo
October 2, 2004, 02:28 PM
Truth?
Here is some truth for you.
Far more restrictive laws have been passes in other Liberal states than what we have here in the land of Lincoln, my favorite Republican I might add.
The good citizens of these states who disagreed with the Bills being offered did all they could to prevent these bills from becoming law but the will of the masses prevailed.
The good citizens of these states abide by these laws today not because they agree with them but because they respect the rule of law.
I am a member of the ISRA and do not support ANY laws that intend to restrict our rights any worse than the ones that have been imposed on the good citizens of this state.
Our Legislators work tirelessly to prevent any more restrictive laws from getting on the books and God bless them for their hard work.
We the people choose our cantidates and so far we have done a good job of putting people into power that don't want to see our rights violated any worse than those already done.
Bills signed as Law are harder than heck to repeal in this state, we deal with what is there and work to prevent any worse issues from being made into law.
What point are you making?
Should we gun down the law enforcement officers when or if they come for our legally owned firearms?
All with any sense hope that never comes to pass, and so far that has not actually happened here.
Law enforcement personnel only deal with those who break the law.
I am very aware if the difference between a right and a priviledge.
I believe law abiding citizens should have the right to carry concealed, without restriction, in Illinois.
I believe law abiding citizens should have the right to possess selective fire weapons, short barrel rifles and short barrel shotguns without restriction.
I believe law abiding citizens should have the right to possess sound suppressors, without restriction.
I am not confused in any sense of the word.
I do abide by the rule of law.
I will continue to do so because that is what makes me a citizen.

Edward429451
October 2, 2004, 02:40 PM
I wasn't born into slavery and I wont accept it. Or at the very least, even if I was born into slavery, I still wont accept it because I know how its supposed to be. This is not a Constitutional thing and its not limited to the united states. Human beings were endowed with certain rights upon birth by God, or if you're of the evolutionary persuasion, birthright, ie, no man is an island. Longheld fundemental law states two rules: 1). Do not infringe on the rights of any others, and 2). Keep all contracts that you enter into voluntarily and intentionally.

These cover a lot of ground. No other laws are needed. #1 covers the NAP, #2 involves keeping your word. Wherein are multiple volumes of legislation required to keep the peace? Legislation is an attack on the citizens only because criminals don't follow the laws and this is well known. It's merely a revenue generator and instituted as a means of control of the good citizens. Law abiding citizens respect and follow the law above and beyond the fundemental law in an effort to be recognized as a good citizen, or out of fear. There can be no compromise with the truth and it has not changed. Therein lies the deception. Nothing is "Legal" anymore. There are laws in place to cover any situation. They might not be enforcing all laws all the time...but pick & choose the times to use them against you...stacking charges to gain leverage and control and submissiveness.

Supposedly, we have the right to pursue life, liberty, and happiness. Suppose in my pursuit of same, I require to go visit my friend...I have to apply for the priviledge to drive on the roads? Happiness infringed, no victim, nil law. Locomotion is not a priviledge, they want you to believe that. Suppose I pursue happiness and require money for my family...lets go work and make some...Oh, I need an authorization to work (SSN), application fees and licenses & testing for a particular trade, local licenses, waiting period for approval...Got it! Lets go to work now...Oh wait, gotta fill out more forms and give autho for the employer to convert some of my funds to send to the feds for whatever reason. Whoops, not yet, still gotta buy their books, mandated equipment (threat of EPA & OSHA fines if not in possession of them). Then there's the gas tax, mandatory or walk. Supplies at the supply house? Taxed there too. And now they want another fee for the specific job too (Permit fee). Whoo, can finally go to work. Payday! whats this? Another chunk gone? Federal withholding? It's robbery, extrotion, infringement and slavery. I have to pay some oneelse most of it to be able to pursue the price of happiness of a banana split at the dairy queen with my family? I think not. Thats organized crime brother.

Regulations are the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on the citizens. This country is a Constitutional Republic, the regulations are for the Government. The Constituion is theirs , not ours. Limits them, not us. We (are) the people and hold the power and answer to no one but our conscience and our God, unless of course we violate the fundemental law and victimize someone in some way. Then I would expect to be held accountable. Penalties should be in place. If I wander into your fair city and hurt someone, take me out of society or hang me in the town square but don't release me back into the community... And why penalize the citizenry with restrictive psuedo laws for a criminals actions? Illegal in and of itself. Un-Constituional laws are null & void from the day of enactment (Marbury vs Madison) No citizen is bound to obey.

My point is, with all due respect, that you are wrong in my opinion.

<The good citizens of these states abide by these laws today not because they agree with them but because they respect the rule of law.)

This is a fancy way of saying that citizens fear the tyrants, goes down easier that way. I respect the rule of self government with community accountability.

<I am a member of the ISRA and do not support ANY laws that intend to restrict our rights any worse than the ones that have been imposed on the good citizens of this state.>

Emphasis mine. This is a compromise and the seed of a deception. Compromising sure sounds amicable but is a fallacy in thinking so. Kind of like beleiving that just the addition of a teeny little bit of dogpoop to your cake will not hurt it. A little leven leaveneth the whole loaf. Having a free body is not possible without a free spirit/thinking. A free spirit cannot exist with dogpoop clouding the issue, however minute. To mistakenly believe otherwise would be to surrender to the enemy. No wonder things are the way they are.

< Should we gun down the law enforcement officers when or if they come for our legally owned firearms?>

Good question. Well, lets just say that the penalty for treason against the Constitution is well documented. I wouldn't want to take another human life and have certainly always given LEO's the benefit of the doubt and cooperated with them for the most part, but who knows if I'll ever run into one who's a tyrant/jbt who I may take offense at his actions? A badguy is a badguy and is not identified by a cloth uniform. That would be a clever camoflauge as some criminals have used to the detriment of good citizens. All rights reserved on that one.

Wearing a uniform does not a good guy make, and wearing a gun into a Starbucks does not a badguy make. I sympathize with LEO's, they're in a tight spot. Get the real badguys and respect the good citizens? How, with all the legislation (and criminal violence) in existance? It IS the (defacto) law as they say and if they give too much respect to the wrong individual, they go home dead. Some job. A few bad cops give them all a bad name. A big responsibility there and a balancing act of correctness.

There are those who can/will get on here and explain in their lawyerese that compromise is the right thing to do. I call dogpoop on that. A little dogpoop icing on your freedom cake, sir? How bout if we put the dogpoop inside and sugarcoat it for you so it goes down easier?

No guns in Chicago? How bout please refrain from shooting fellow chicagoans? If there is rights and there is priviledges, and bearing arms is a right, tell me how come getting a CCW permit is the right thing to do? To pay to excercise a right. No dogpoop please.





:neener:

Highland Ranger
October 2, 2004, 07:17 PM
Your defense sounds like, the citizen's equivalent of I was doing as ordered.

No one is telling you to break the law . . . . .

But restrictions on rights are illegal themselves.

And if you say that driving without a license is the same as having a gun without a license, then you don't know the difference between a right and a privledge (in essnce the quote I quoted earlier)

Good luck in the fight . . . .

Onmilo
October 2, 2004, 11:33 PM
Many people all over the country possess a drivers license and do not own a car, they can't afford them and the gas and the mandatory insurance neccessary to operate this priviledge.
There are many people in Illinois who don't own a firearm who still get their gun card because at some time they may decide to buy a firearm.
Many others buy hunting licenses and the stamps and don't actually hunt.
They buy them because they support Conservation.
I am a free man but am required to follow the orders of my employer and don't consider this to be an insult to my manhood.
If the State orders me to turn in my firearms because they as a State decide guns are illegal, this I will not do, I will move from this state before that happens.
If this State imposes further restrictions on the right to own or possess firearms that I now have in my possession I will move from this state to a state that allows me my freedom.
The fact is that attempts to do just that have occurred in ths state of Illinois and have been soundly rebuffed time and time again.
But I digress and so has everyone else that has posted a rebuff to my belief that the Illinois Firearm Card isn't a bad thing it is just a thing.
Why as a law abiding citizen would you be so opposed to a simple card?
The card identifies you as a law abiding citizen legally allowed to possess and use firearms.
The folks who live in states that actually allow the concealed carry of firearms issue cards to those legally allowed to do so or at least note the fact on those individuals Drivers Licenses!
The FOID is the same thing as a CCW only we can't legally carry concealed weapons unless we are law enforcement or Military or the favored son of a wardsman in Chicago.
The gent who had his firearm confiscated DID NOT have a current FOID card in his possession so he was required to surrender his firearm, period, end of issue.
He did not do the simple reapplication required to keep his firearm.
What happens in states that require individuals that legally carry concealed weapons to make reapplications for their CCW?
If they don't do it, they lose their right to legally carry, right?
Well the same thing applies here.
There are people here that are trying to get legal carry passed for all citizens who possess a FOID card, the card would act as their CCW.
"Shall Issue", if you can get a card, are 21 years of age or older then you can carry concealed.
It doesn't look promising but it is in the works.
Yes I favor the FOID Card.

Highland Ranger
October 3, 2004, 12:21 AM
Why as a law abiding citizen would you be so opposed to a simple card?

Guilty until proven innocent? (Right out of the Nazi playbook.)

The card identifies you as a law abiding citizen legally allowed to possess and use firearms.

As a free man the constitution identifies me as such without any "card".

Comparing gun ownership (a right) to driving and hunting (privledges) doesn't count as they are not covered in the bill of rights and are irrelevant to the gun control discussion. Apples and oranges and right out of the gun control advocates playbook.

If we are licensing "dangerous things" then I think we need power tool and 5 gallon bucket licenses . . . . . both very dangerous and it would be something good for the chidren. (sarcasm)

This has NOTHING to do with manhood.

Any kind of restriction on gun ownership is a BAD thing.

Think about it . . . . I came from NYC where no one has guns and it takes some time to think through all the reasonable sounding restriction on guns.

I've come to the conclusion that no restriction is acceptable and that the ones who want them most and push for more are the elitists who have armed bodyguards anyway.

BTW . . . . don't feel too bad, I live in NJ and its probably worse.

aerod1
October 3, 2004, 02:54 PM
God Bless Texas!
We don't do that here...............yet.

Jim

Lord Bodak
October 3, 2004, 03:12 PM
Confiscating firearms from a gentleman who is legally able to own them, using only the reason that he never paid a fee and filled out a form, amounts to the residents of Illinois being forced to pay to exercise their rights. That is unacceptable, under any circumstances. Our rights are non-negotiable.

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