[Skunkabilly]

For a while I thought I was going to hang up the 1911 for good. As my needs change (getting a CA CCW or getting an American citizenship in a shall-issue state) my needs are going from less HD and competition guns to HD and carry gun; I am becoming of the 'if I can't carry it, I don't have a use for it' in choosing a handgun.

My first 1911 was Kimber stainless which I hated. It shot good, but was unreliable, and since I learned to shoot on HKs and Berettas I wasn't used to guns failing or needing to be tuned out of the factory.

Second 1911 was (is) a KZ45. Good gun, high quality, as reliable as any HK, accurate, but the ergonomics suck. While the HKs and Berettas I shoot are big guns I can manipulate everything on them easily, which I can't do with the KZ45.

Should I get another all-steel 1911, one of high quality, like a Wilson CQB, or a Kimber Custom and swap out the crappy parts, and give the 1911 yet another shot?

[Sven]

Skunk,

You live in California, home of John Jardine and the Valtro. You at least owe it to yourself to check one out.

How about we meet halfway in Central CA and pop a few hundred rounds go downrange with my instance of the Valtro?

You buy the ammo, I'll gas up and be there!

http://www.imageseek.com/valtro/sven/valtro_360x270.jpg

http://www.imageseek.com/valtro/sven/_tucker_valtro_safety.jpg

I'm serious,

-s

[10-Ring]

Maybe having a poly-1911 is like trying to enjoy New Coke...just won't happen. A steel, single stack 1911 that is well tuned can be alot of fun to shoot & pleasureable to own. Plus, since you like cocked & locked carry, the 1911 is made for you.
Tough call...I'd give a quality 1911 a chance before you completely swear them off. You might not have found the right one yet.

[Soap]

If you can afford it, go all the way. I would go for a Baer TRS, Wilson, or a Valtro. Recently I've been wishy-washing with my choosing the 1911 as my platform. But the more I handle it the more it makes sense to my hands. The 1911 is truly a sweet weapon.

[Glock_PhD]

Why not just give in all the way skunk and get a glock!! :neener:

[Schuey2002]

Give the Wilson CQB a shot..:D

[sm]

Stealing from Jim Higginbotham

typing paper, fold in half, fold again.(quartered)
timer, or buddy with stopwatch
variety of guns (platforms/calibers)
5yds

At the "Go" shoot various platforms (and if same platform but in different caliber, shoot also).

Compare times and group size. This usually defines which platform, caliber, shooter can best shoot--quick accurate hits.

1911's do very well for the majority.

I have a couple of friends that are better with Revolvers. have seen these guys shoot 12 rds faster (that means a reload ) quicker than semi auto shooters--shooting a 10 rd mag!!!

Now -check yourself if want with mag changes.

"Beware the man with one gun...he has practiced and knows it well"

[Sven]

You will definitely want some sort of Magwell for fast reloading, having seen your videos showing the type of competition you enjoy - a little hard to slam one home without lining it up - for me, yet, anyhow.

Love that narrow frame and the feel of 38-40 ounces (+ ammo) of steel, pushing big heavy slow bullets. Throw +P ProLoad HPs in there and now you have 471 foot pounds at your fingertip.

[Stevie-Ray]

Give it another try. I have 3 and carry one about 3/4 of the time. Wouldn't trade away any of them. Do yourself a favor though, spend the extra for the added assurance. My Ultra CDP hasn't failed with the Hydra-shoks once. My Colt self-custom or Delta Elite have never failed to be reliable either.

[sm]

I believe Jim H drill is for CCW

Magwells...can see for gaming, I was thinking more of CCW myself. Skunk, I thought you were referring to CCW and HD...apologize if mis-read your question.

I use stock guns, no magwells,no doodads, gimmicks, or doohickeys . My1911 styles have crisp triggers about 4# , 'bout as tricked out as I get...good ammo and mags a must.

[Kahr carrier]

For a good basic 1911 try a Springfield 1911 Milspec.Its a good bang for the buck.:)

[Schuey2002]

For a while I thought I was going to hang up the 1911 for good.
Never hang up any gun in your collection for good.. Never!

Park it in the safe, your tastes will change over and over as you get older.. You may find that you've lost the "1911" bug today but, who knows what tomorrow brings..

A future Mrs. (Korean-sniper) Skunk may like 1911's, you never know.:D

[10-Ring]

If you're gonna get a steel 1911, might as well get the Wilson. Why go through the hassle of changing out parts & voidinga warranty. Get the Wilson you want, the way you want it & move on from there.

[Skunkabilly]

Between selling the USP45 and KZ45 I should have enough for the CQB. I already have 7 magazines and a holster for it.

Money's not a factor, we'll see what the Sheriff's Department has to say about my CCW.

[OKC .45 ACP]

1911, get a Baer TRS. 2nd choice Ed Brown Cobra. 3rd choice Wilson CQB.

If you want a gun that'll make you bow down on the ground and cry "I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!" --Save up and get a Vickers or Tibbets custom. I own them both, and I'm not worthy. You've not shot a 1911 till you've shot a custom by one of the masters: Heinie, Vickers, or Tibbets.

[Sean Smith]

I think I have the perfect 1911 for Skunkabilly... the Dawson Precision Tactical :D Advantage. Same price as a CQB but more options to choose from, and from what I hear better quality than a comparably-priced Wilson or Baer.

http://www.dawsonprecision.com/custompistols/dawsonprecision/tacticaladvantage1911.aspx

Either that, or an Ed Brown Kobra if you have to buy off-the-shelf, or just don't like the cosmetics of the Dawson guns. Of course, I dunno if you can get either one in Commiefornia. :(

But these sorta-custom guns everyone is talking about never interested me much. Being a picky bastard, I like having a pistolsmith work over a gun so it is exactly how I want it instead.

[Standing Wolf]

I gave the model 1911 a second chance after twenty-odd years. I made it a Kimber rather than a Colt, and haven't been disappointed.

[Skunkabilly]

Can't get the TA in Cali (leaving anyway maybe I should wait?)...those rollmarks look...:barf:

[Pendragon]

Geez.

DOWN BOY!

Everyone has their favorite 1911 and the semi custom makers are all excellent.

Skunk, you really should take Sven up on his offer - the Valtro is unbelieveably sweet and you might just never look back.

Half the 1911s recomended are not available in CA at this time.

Try the Valtro - it is the most afordable of the best and is every bit the gun the CQB is.

What ever you do, do the following:

Shoot a 1911 that ALWAYS works
Shoot a 1911 with a proper trigger
Shoot a 1911 with a checkered front and back strap
Shoot a 1911 that is very accurate

The Valtro and many other guns fit that description - settle for nothing less.

[harrydog]

Give a good steel 1911 a try. The CQB would be a good choice, as would a Valtro. An Ed Brown Kobra would also be nice. Stick with one of the semi-customs, or even a true custom if you don't mind the wait.
I own or have owned many pistols including a USP9, USP Tactical, P7M8, various Glocks, SIG, Kahrs, etc.
If I could only keep one, it would surely be a full size steel 1911.

[El Tejon]

I've had a number of 1911s. The Les Baer TRS is the one that I carry and the model of which I own multiple copies. What's more it is approved by your betters in law enforcement for the subjects of Tacticalifornia.:D

[10-Ring]

Skunk, why don't you just have one built to your specs? You'll spend a little more, but you'd have the gun YOU WANT!

[Tamara]

Baer, Wilson, Valtro, Ed Brown... there are a plethora of sweet 1911s on the market if you want to drop some heavy green.

I've so enjoyed my Professional that I've about decided to round up some other examples of the genre, like maybe a TRS or CQB...

[MoNsTeR]

If the trigger on a fine 1911 isn't enough to make you throw your USP in the river, then don't bother. Just one man's opinion, but the 1911 is all about the trigger. If you don't need or want a trigger that good, there's no point in forcing yourself to own one.

[tdow]

Skunk,

I think you need to forget all this new-fangled beavertailed, low mount sighted, forward cocking serrated so-called "tactical" doo dads, and get yourself some old school firepower. How 'bout a nice, blued Colt Government Model!

Just my .02.

--tdow

[Carla]

Hi Skunky,

Why not consider an older, used Series 70 or earlier Colt LW Commander or the steel Combat Commander in 45ACP. This gal has the LW Cmdr fitted out with low mount BoMar sights, extended safety and smoothed out action and I just love it. Fits my hands perfectly (and I'm no two-ton Tessie either) and I can shoot it both fast and accurately.

Best idea is go to the range and see if some of the folks there will let you shoot their 45's. Try a wide range and see which suits you best.

Just an idea. Best to you in your search.

Carla

[Sean Smith]

Tamara Sez...

I've so enjoyed my Professional that I've about decided to round up some other examples of the genre, like maybe a TRS or CQB...

I think you should look into getting a 1911 in 10mm. I know there are a couple of Baer models you can get in 10mm Auto, and I think Ed Brown's Class A Limited is available in 10mm too. 10mm and the 1911... two great things that go great together. :cool:

Or you could have a pistolsmith make something like THIS for you... you know you want it. :D

http://maxpowers.maxpayneheadquarters.com/pics/delta_left.jpg

:evil:

[Skunkabilly]

Arnitday, I called Wilson and they can't ship the gray CQB to Cali :barf:

[Stevie-Ray]

Wow, a gal armed with a 1911. It just doesn't get any better than that!

[Schuey2002]

Stevie Ray, not only does she own a '1911', she is a virtual gun show unto herself..;)

[CWL]

Skunk,

You can always ship the CQB back for refinishing to gray, although you can do the same refinishing yourself using Brownells spray-on polymer coating.

Here's another suggestion, get a SA milspec (~$500) and shoot that, then you can can use it as a platform for truly personalized customizing.

[Skunkabilly]

Down boys....


I figure i'll be putting a couple bucks into it either way if I buy it new the way I want (Wilson) or get a Mil-Spec and having it done up...still have to flip a coin.

Having the Wilson redone gray will cost me $30 shipping and $150 for the job. :cuss: I know that gray finish will be ultratactical because I can't have it in Cali!!

[stevec]

Should I get another all-steel 1911, one of high quality, like a Wilson CQB, or a Kimber Custom and swap out the crappy parts, and give the 1911 yet another shot?

Looks like everyone assumed that it was a foregone conclusion that you _would_ want a high end 1911.

Of course, if you didn't want one, then nobody would be able to pimp their favorite 1911 on you:D

I get the impression that your odds of getting a carry permit in some place like LA are going to be pretty slim. And if you did carry, you'd probably want something a little smaller and lighter than the government model. A 1911 is a big, comforting hunk-o-steel, but I wouldn't want to carry one IWB all the time (or even part of the time).

If I were blowing the sort of money you're talking about, I'd pick up a decent officer sized, alloy framed 1911, sell the top end, and have a smith fit a new caspian commander length slide and barrel on it. Its the hard way to get a Colt CCO/Wilson Stinger, but you'll have the 1911 that is very carry friendly, and built to your own specs. You can make it as tactical as your heart desires.

And really, when you're dropping that sort of money, wouldn't you _really_ rather have Skunkabilly's notion of perfection in a 1911, rather than Wilson's or Baer's notion of perfection?

Steve

[Tamara]

Wow, a gal armed with a 1911.

You're new here, aren't you? ;) :D

[mattk]

Buy the Smith and Wesson 1911 rip out the FP safety and buy a couple of more mags. Be happy.
The Smith is Ultra tactical bead blasted stainless with SUPER tactical Novak sights. Great accuracy and reliabitly in mine. Plus they come with SUPER DUPER tactical Wilson Tactical Combat Tactical Mags.*

Can you tell I really like my Smith 1911?

*I am pretty sure this is a direct quote from Wilson's catalog.:D

[Sean Smith]

Skunkabilly,

Maybe this might help you decide between custom vs an off-the-shelf gun like a CQB:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10567

And yes, this is me shamelessly promoting a dead topic I started. :D

[Skunkabilly]

Well The Wilson CQB comes pretty close to my ideal 1911, save for the front cocking serrations. Handy but ugly. They're not too bad and I'll take them but if I had a choice I wouldn't have them.

Second are the sights. The slide is going to Trijicon or someone to put the Novaks on for me.

Third are carbon fiber grips, but that's a quick fix, and I do like the Wilson gray grips.

I'd need to have the gun refinished in gray. So much more tacticaller than green because I can't have it in CA.

I'll do the math and see how much it costs to have a Colt done up to a CQB so I can still have the horsey factor.

If I had a dollar for everytime Wilson used TACTICAL for everything in their catalog...I'd HAVE everything in their catalog!! :D

[Sean Smith]

You can have the front cocking serrations cut off, you know. It looks very nice.

http://www.burnscustom.com/images/131.jpg

Note the carbon fiber grips. :)

You could also have the Wilson sights modified... I think the back of these sights were serrated to give a more Heinie-style sight picture.

http://www.standingwave.org/albums/burnscustom2/ada.sized.jpg

I'd guess the all-in price between a CQB (nearly $2,000) and modifying a Colt to your specs would probably be about the same, especially since you are already talking about modifying the CQB anyway. But if the CQB is most of what you want anyway, you might as well get it. For Novaks I'd suggest sending it to... Novak's. :p

http://www.novaksights.com/

For a gray finish, flat Hard Chrome is going to be alot better than Armor-Scuff, but of course will be somewhat brighter in color even if the steel is bead-blasted.

Note that Heinies seem to take a beating in my experience better than Novaks though. Does that make them "more tactical"? :D

[Stevie-Ray]

You're new here, aren't you? :D I'm afraid so. And the area I'm in doesn't have many women that like guns, though I try very hard to introduce them to the shooting sports. Been successful with a few but very few.:( I love to see women take an interest in guns and the RKBA.

[Skunkabilly]

Steve...very nice very nice!!

Are those yours???

I'd like to keep most of the work with Wilson if I'm getting their gun. I wonder if they can cut off the front cocking things.

[tex_n_cal]

Sven, Skunky, since I am about halfway between the two of you, drop me a note and cruise on by...we have decent indoor and outdoor ranges in the Central Valley.

I have a few Colts that shoot so pretty they will make you cry.:p

Don't know if I'll have my Lightweight 9mm Commander running in the next couple weeks, but I can certainly let you shoot a spooky-accurate 10mm Delta, a Gold Cup that's worthy of the name, a Springfield with .38 Super and 9x23 barrels, a Defender, and a new Colt GM that's as good or better than anything out of Kimber.

You might even get to shoot what you refer to as a "revolver thingy".:D

[stevec]

Skunkabilly,
I think you got me and Sean Smith mixed up because we're both recommending custom 1911's.

Those fine 1911's were posted by Sean. I don't know if those are his though - I remember he sold off his cherished S&W 610 and Colt Delta Elite 10mm a few months back, and seems to be working on a custom Colt Delta Elite v 2.0

My own 1911 is just a humble Springfield. But I've decided that if I'm going to own a 1911, I'm going to own a mouth watering one - so the SA is not long for the world in it's current form.

Steve

[Daguerre]

Skunkabilly... Owning over a dozen 1911's, I sure do appreciate these things! And I've learned that there are lots of really nice 1911's to have. And you don't have to buy a super-premium gun to get ultra-reliability. My most recent is an Ed Brown Class A Bobtail Commander... a superb gun, but one which will also set you back quite a bit of green. Definitely don't overlook the new Colts. Just as nice, in it's own way, and a much better buy would be a new-issue Colt Series 70 like one of mine:

Colt Series 70 - new production/re-issue
http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/Guns/Colt2937.jpg

These awesome guns can be had for around $795. This pistol is every bit as reliable right out-of-the-box as any super-premium 1911, possibly more so! Colt doesn't have to include a note telling you what ammo might not be reliable in this gun...(like Wilson does). This Colt will digest whatever you want to feed it. And it's nearly as accurate as a premium priced 1911. Shoot them just as is for a great experience or, if you're so inclined, buy one and send it off to Ted Yost, Jim Garthwaite, Chuck Rogers, Don Williams, or Larry Vickers for some really special fine tuning by a master 1911 pistolsmith. Either way (I'm doing both, keeping a box-stock version and sending another off for customization) you'll have a superb gun.

Other great guns would include the Ed Browns, then the Les Baers, then, I suppose, the Wilson. For some reason, though, from what I can determine, Wilson's just ain't all that wonderful for the huge bucks they charge! And what's with their disclaimer that their guns should run right with certain name brands of ammo and not with other name brands? My Colts will run all day on any ammo I care to feed them. To me the Wilsons seem like little more than Kimbers with a little extra fluff. And they sure seem overpriced. But, I suppose, they're still a pretty decent gun if you don't mind spending more money than they might really be worth. Just one guy's opinion, that's all. And, hey, the Springfield TRP is a dang nice 1911 for around $1100!!! Not a super bargain, but possibly as good as some brand name models selling for $1600-$1900. :eek:

[Skunkabilly]

Man, right when I thought I was off the 1911 boat...(again :rolleyes:) that Dawson 1911 looks tacticaliciously advantageous!!!

:rolleyes:

I am fickle. Sorry :o

[bokchoi]

If the trigger on a fine 1911 isn't enough to make you throw your USP in the river, then don't bother. Just one man's opinion, but the 1911 is all about the trigger. If you don't need or want a trigger that good, there's no point in forcing yourself to own one.

Monster hit it right on the head, at least for me.

I couldn't justify getting a gun that I'd potentially have to "make" good, or that has seen far more changes and upgrades in its entire history than any other gun. That's not to say 1911s are inferior, of course; they're probably the most refined gun on the entire market thanks to the constant and fullhearted attention to design improvement.

Regardless, a 1911 didn't suit me; I wanted an SA/DA, double-stack magazine handgun, and the 1911 just didn't cater to me in those regards, and I didn't see any further purpose in trying to justify a gun in my collection just on the basis that everyone else owns one.

Until the day I DO get a good 1911 (and that day will come), I'll continue to slog through my crappy mushy duty gun triggers and DA revolvers until one day my trigger control is good enough to let me make ransom-like groupings (not bloody likely :D)

[10-Ring]

Revisiting this thread has me re-evaluating whether or not I should just get one...again. :banghead:

Oh & by the way, those pics aren't helping any!

[faustulus]

Maybe what you need is something a bit more modern. Might I suggest and STI or SV. I find the wide grips make it easier to manipulate the controls.

and STI has a tatical model :)

http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Tactical/images/TacBlueLeft1.jpg

[Cal4D4]

Aw cr#p! My oldest just plunked down the cash for the Kimber Custom blued, night sighted, LAPD SWAT whatever lettered full sized 1911. I refuse to touch it. I'm DEWATing my POS AMT because I'm too embarrassed to shoot it at the range now. I keep telling him 1911s are too easy to shoot well and REAL shooters master the Glock trigger. I may have to come up with some sort of 1911 in 10mm just to save face.

[denfoote]

Skunk,
I hated the 1911 for years. Well guess what??? I just got a 1911!! It's what almost everyone here would call a "cheapie". I paid $250 for it used. It's an Israeli made Colt Government clone. But, it has all the bells and whistles, and this weekend I'm gunna put another 50 rounds for a total of 200 through it. It has not jammed or failed to feed on anything I've fed it so far, including Hydro Shoks or Golden Sabers. A 1911 does not have to be a Rolls or a Lexus to function well. Give it another chance!! :D

[Mannlicher]

Weird thread.

Skunkabilly, the worst two guns I ever owned for reliability were a HK USP Compact, and a Beretta 92. I did not even bother to return them to the factory, I got a refund.

The best guns I ever owned for reliability have been my Colt's Combat Commander, and my Springfield 1911-A1.

Point here, is no single example of a hand gun speaks for the whole production run. Nothing mechanical is perfect.

[Daguerre]

Skunk... I know how frustrating and demoralizing it is to have a pistol which doesn't run right... makes you want to just dump the damned thing and keep moving on. Problem is, you can get a lemon from ANY maker. If you look through the various forums over on the 1911Forum, you'll see owners of Wilsons, Glocks, Kimber, HK, Colts, Springfields, Berettas, Dan Wessons, Baers, etc. complaining of one of their guns that is not running right.

When you realize that problems crop up as does the occasional lemon on guns from any maker, and when you realize that you don't have to buy a premium 1911 to get one which is accurate and reliable, then you can relax a little on your choice. Whetever you buy, if it has problems, you can learn enough about 1911's to make it right or have the factory make it right for you.

I don't know as much about the DA and DA/SA pistols as I do about 1911's, but I'd say don't spend your money on a premium 1911 unless you have the money to burn and you just want to. Sure I like my $2400 Ed Brown Class A, but I love my Colt Series 70 just as much, if not more.

You can buy 1911's every bit as reliable and as accurate at $550 as at $2000, or more. I have 1911's ranging from an Ed Brown Class A Bobtail Commander down to a basic Colt Combat Commander. I like them both equally in different ways. And they are equal on reliability. And nearly so on accuracy. With minor modification, the basic Colt can be made to shoot as accurately as the Brown. As fine as my EB is, there's still something about the Colts which appeal to me as much or more.

But there is no point in trying to force yourself to like 1911's. 1911's are in a class by themselves and if you have to TRY to like them, then you just don't get it and they're probably not for you. No point in trying. If you just don't like them, don't spend any more energy thinking about them... just move on and buy tupperware or something else, plenty of other guns will get the job done, if that's all you need.

But I sense the allure of 1911's is in you and you really want another one.

If you don't like 1911's because you had a bad experience or two with certain samples of them, then I'd say get over it buy another one! And don't worry about spending the big bucks. Find a Colt 1991A1 in blue or stainless (they're a little scarce right now... you might try the internet gun sale sites) or a Springfield mil-spec or loaded, and if for some reason whatever you buy isn't flawless, work out the bugs. We at the 1911 forum can diagnose and help you fix about anything that might crop up... there's a huge wealth of 1911 knowledge and experience over there.

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/index.php?s=

[LeonCarr]

You can buy a Les Baer, or you can buy a Glock and 1000 rounds of ammo. Your choice.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
P.S. Read my Signature

[susan28]

as a 10mm shooter, i've found no equal to the 1911 for pure shootability, and i've tried most of them. my G20's not going anywhere and am currently fitting 'er with a 6" slide to tame the muzzle a bit, but the Delta practically shoots itself in comparison and i'm currently looking for a spotless bone-stock one to send to my favourite 'smith for perfectionisation..

::wavin to Sean:: heya love.. still looking for pics of yer Delta, they never display in your posts! i wanna see! :rolleyes:

[Sean Smith]

Nice job bringing back a topic from the dead. :eek:

P.S. Check your PMs. :)

[Ala Dan]

Give an all steel Kimber such as a Gold Combat, Team Match II, or the
Raptor another chance. Speaking of the Raptor, it differs greatly from any
other Kimber. :uhoh: I bought one NIB, and haven't been disappointed. :D

BTW, the Kimber Raptor's are kind'a scarce. We had 2X NIB, and they just
lasted 15 minutes. Kimbers custom shop is running anywhere from six to
eight weeks behind on these fine firearms.

[Skunkabilly]

What's different on the Raptors? Can they rap? A wick wick wicky wicky