Boycott Long John Silver? Yum Foods (merged threads)


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Texian Pistolero
October 4, 2004, 11:52 AM
In Dallas Morning News,

a 10 year employee of Long John Silver has been fired for (SUCCESSFULLY) resisting a robber, who was forcing him to the back of the restaurant, after all employees had complied and given over the cash.


Boycott these idiots until honest guy rehired!

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JPL
October 4, 2004, 12:11 PM
I'm confused.

Who should I be protesting?

The restaurant?

Or the porn star? :)

Joe Demko
October 4, 2004, 12:14 PM
Boycott these idiots until honest guy rehired!

Because they complied with the robber's demand, the other employees aren't honest?

Carlos Cabeza
October 4, 2004, 12:20 PM
Was this resistance weapon assisted ? You know that whatever they fry their food in has some addictive qualities. :D Might be hard for some to boycott. :p Potentially ugly situation for all of the employees, being forced to the back of the restaurant.

Texian Pistolero
October 4, 2004, 12:23 PM
Sorry, will clarify.

According to the DMN story,

The manager and all employees initially complied with the robbers.

They went to the floor.

They gave up the cash.

At this point, if the robbers were legit, they would simply leave.

But, this employee was grabbed and forced towards the back of the store.

Those who regularly review tactics, know this is a trigger point.

If the robbers are playing the game, they would leave.

It is an axiom that getting moved to another location jacks the odds in favor of rape/murder.

This means the employee was RIGHT to resist!

The robbers ran out, leaving the money bag.

No one hurt.

But a week later the employee (a ten year veteran), was fired for fighting for his life!
There must be a nationwide boycott of Long John Silver until :

a) This employee is rehired.

b) LJS polices revised to reflect reality

Texian Pistolero
October 4, 2004, 12:37 PM
Worker fired for trying to disarm robber

10-year veteran risked others' lives, firm says


07:59 AM CDT on Monday, October 4, 2004


By MICHAEL E. YOUNG / The Dallas Morning News



The robbery passed in a blur – rough voices, barked orders, workers forced to the floor, a bag of money changing hands.

Then one of the robbers ordered the supervisor at the Richardson Long John Silver's to the back of the restaurant.

"He's going to kill me," the man recalled thinking. So he grabbed a hammer, turned and swung.

The robber fell, then fled, his accomplice with him. The bag of money lay on the floor.

A few days after the Sept. 18 robbery attempt, the supervisor got another shock: Officials at Long John Silver's fired him.

He'd risked his co-workers' lives and violated company policy, he said they told him.

A company spokesman declined to discuss specifics, acknowledging the attempted robbery at the Belt Line Road restaurant and the policy.

Spokesman Rick Maynard said, "Our policy outlines the steps that should be taken to prevent putting customers or employees at risk, including directing employees not to attempt to disarm a robber."

The decision stunned the fired supervisor, who asked that his name not be used because the robbers remain at large. And it surprised law enforcement officials.

"You know what? He might not have followed policy. But don't Monday-morning-quarterback someone whose life was threatened," said Richardson police Sgt. Kevin Perlich.

The supervisor, 46, said his fears overwhelmed him, and for good reason.

"They had my three employees on the floor," said the Dallas father of six who had worked for Long John Silver's for 10 years. "I gave them the money, but the dude who's supposed to have the gun, he orders me into the back.

"The only thing I could think is he was going to kill all of us," the fired worker said.

He'd been robbed on the street 25 years ago. He had handed over his money and offered his watch, but the robber shot him anyway.

"I had a flashback, and I was panicking. I knew I had to do something. I had seen a hammer in the back, and I grabbed it."

A few days later, he was called in by his boss and fired.

"I cooperated. I gave them the money. But they said because I hit one of the robbers, I violated company policy."

E-mail myoung@dallasnews.com

Smoke
October 4, 2004, 12:52 PM
I'm not a big fan of boycotts but there seems to be a good reason behind this one.

Plus, LJS food is crap anyway...I hate that place.

:neener:

Smoke

foghornl
October 4, 2004, 12:54 PM
Those high-level [ahem] mucky-mucks*** should be the ones having to manage an individual store. See what they think after the BG puts a gun to THEIR head.



***Nicest term I could use to describe management [so far removed from reality, that a trip to Mars would be a short side-trip]

notbubba
October 4, 2004, 12:55 PM
Well, I don't eat at Long John Slivers & I'm willing to still not eat there.:evil:

KRAUTGUNNER
October 4, 2004, 01:02 PM
The fired employee should sue LJS! THAT case should be won even with the help of a cheap and mediocre lawyer.

sendec
October 4, 2004, 01:12 PM
Talk about your monday morning quarterbacking

Wait, thats what WE are doing! Its OK for us, but LJS shouldnt, the prongs.

SAG0282
October 4, 2004, 01:18 PM
I boycotted them long ago based on their atrocious food quality.......

nico
October 4, 2004, 05:33 PM
will do. I've never eaten at one anyway and if I want frozen, processed, fried fish, I can get it from the grocery store.

That is absolutely ridiculous though. I can almost understand the CYA policy of "just cooperate" but sanctioning the man in any way is absolutely absurd. He should find the slimiest lawyer he can (I hear John Edwards will be available in a month or so) and sue the pants off the company and any executives who were involved in the decision. They definitely would not take responsibility if the man had been killed, so they have absolutely no business telling him what to do in a life or death situation.

Dbl0Kevin
October 4, 2004, 05:48 PM
Wait, thats what WE are doing! Its OK for us, but LJS shouldnt, the prongs.

Sendec are you actually saying that you support the decision to fire a man who was defending his life?? :confused:

sendec
October 4, 2004, 06:35 PM
What I am saying is that I'll not make a decision based on a random demand from someone I dont know who provides minimal info on the web. I also think it is hilarious when we criticize a decision made by people who have FAR more info than we do for a decision based on info we dont have.

Maybe the guy should be sainted, I dunno. Keep in mind that the decision he made was unilateral - it could have had a horrific consequence for everyone else involved. I am glad it worked out, but was it because he was good, or because he was lucky?

I'm sorry, I dont like other people making my decision for me, on the net or in the middle of a robbery. You want me to boycott, fine, send me the videotape, the police reports, the interview summaries and the statements from the other people there and I'll take a look at it, but I'm not basing a decision on what someone on a forum has to say whithout providing foundation.

And how is this boycott going to help? So 12 people don't eat grease. Get a couple of minimum wage fryer jockeys laid off? How is suing going to help? He violated policy. Ask the lawyers here how they'd get around that, cause it aint easy. Get his job back? Who'd want it after they rear ended him like that?

If you think what he did was so great take the money you woulda spent at LJS, stick it in an envelope and mail it to him. That'd mean a lot more than bluster on the web.

Based on my experience and knowledge, he gambled and won. Good for him. But the house odds are a beech. For those who think interrupting a robbery is just peachy I'd refer you to the PepBoys tape, the North Hollywood tape, the Norco tape.......You feelin lucky?

Dbl0Kevin
October 4, 2004, 06:41 PM
You're right I don't have all of the evidence and wasn't there at the scene. That is exactly why I give the benefit of the doubt to a man who was in danger for his life and chose to ACT in order to defend it. We know there was a robbery, this is of no dispute. Given that fact alone the man had reason to fear for his life. I will stand behind someone who chooses to take action in such a situation everytime over someone who meekly complies with someone who means to do them harm. If there were more people like that then perhaps the twin towers would still be standing.

cerberus
October 4, 2004, 06:50 PM
Getting fired from that fish dump is the best thing that could happen to this guy. I am sure he will find a much better job with a much better employer.:rolleyes:

Redlg155
October 4, 2004, 07:28 PM
Based on the information given, he feared for his life and took whatever action he deemed necessary. It's kinda late to resist while they are pulling the trigger on you.

I'm sure the responses here would have been much different had the article read something like " Concealed Carry Permit Holder fired for opening fire on robbers". He did not have a gun, but he improvised.

Hopefully he will get a better job, and not in the fast food sector. If he does stay in the fast food business he shouldn't have too much problem getting a new job. As Chris Rock says " If you get fired, so what. Buger King don't talk to Wendy's!". :D

Good Shooting
Red

effengee
October 4, 2004, 07:41 PM
A few places I have worked have this type of policy with a strict wording that stated something to the effect of you WILL be fired for attempting to save your life on the job during a robbery...

It's sad as hell, but that's the policy.
It didn't stop me from taking the job and I never agreed that I wouldn't try to stop a crime anyway

Boycotting the single restaraunt or the entire chain would do little good.

Write a letter to the corporate offices stating your dissatisfaction.
It still won't do much good, but they'll know somebody's paying attention.

Jim

Texian Pistolero
October 4, 2004, 08:55 PM
I don't think an actual boycott will be necessary.

The mere threat of a boycott often will work.

I don't think there is any guaranteed outcome to this,

but at least I have the balls to try.

I actually like LJS,

about four times a year.


After an initial summary, I have posted the

Dallas Morning News story in full from their website.

I rarely agree with the Dallas Morning News,

but they obviously agree with the fired employee.

The facts may or may not be as they reported,

but any error in the report is theirs.

In any case LJS will have the right to correct any errors.

If the facts are as stated, they are in the wrong.

Standing Wolf
October 4, 2004, 08:56 PM
If I ever encounter one of those restaurants, I'll be sure not to eat in it.

Edmond
October 4, 2004, 09:01 PM
I don't eat at LJS, but I'll be sure to tell all my friends about this sad story.:uhoh:

Tharg
October 4, 2004, 09:12 PM
I'll have to agree w/ sendec.... in the sense that when that man reacted - he reacted on behalf of all involved.

Of course - so does a CHL holder - in fact - i'd say a CHL holder is charged w/ the duty. But hey - thats just my opine.

According to the story - he did all the right things - right up until it became about his life - and if thats the case... I'd commend him.

This isn't a first - companies do this all the time. Its designed to rein in some &ock Jock who thinks he's the cream of the crop and resists to just resist - which overwhelmingly results in loss of life/injury. (IE: won't happen in MY store man!!!) I'm sure there are liability issues etc as well - but all the info i've seen says that resistance is usually futile in those situations.

I can't say how i'd react - in the back fryin the grease at a LJS i doubt one would be ready for a robbery since whatever the % is that nothing happens. Not only will you not likely be near a defensive weapon of some sort - you will also not be prepared for it.

If the words above are correct - the guy remembered a hammer in the "back" and knew where it was for a suprise launch against his assailant... don't know how it turned out - he hit him he didn't whatever, the guys ran away... but how would we be viewing this story if it turned out how the %'s usually roll and the story read instead that he resisted and was killed or he was killed and so where his fellow employee's...?

I'm not gonna boycot LJS, but since i don't like fish fried grease or fried loaves of bread w/ some bits of chicken inside... its not really gonna matter since they don't get my business anyway. (I think its the ONE place i REFUSE to eat at no matter what)

J/Tharg!

gryphon
October 4, 2004, 09:30 PM
You know I'm gonna John Kerry on this one and do a reversal.

This goes back to the Pizza Hut driver that wsas fired for using his CCW weapon to defend himself on his route. On that one I stated that I wanted to boycott Pizza Hut.

But now when I think about it, both places had clear policies about what would happen in these scenarios given the response of the employees.

As an employee you know what the policy ios going in.

If it was me I probably would have done what the employee did in the LJS and Pizza Hut scenario, however, it's hard to cry fowl(sp?) when you know what the outcome would be. It's just a job.

Texian Pistolero
October 4, 2004, 10:20 PM
Perhaps.

But I have a PERSONAL right to never, never, never, again,

give one red cent to these lowlife corporate d*** suckers,

that's MY policy.

If I want a less than optimally fried piece of of fish,

I got gaziillions of alternative choices.

case closed.

Texian Pistolero
October 4, 2004, 10:21 PM
why don't some of you guys strap on a pair of balls,

and take a STAND ????????

mparris71
October 4, 2004, 10:22 PM
He violated policy :rolleyes: He is still alive and so is his co-workers. I think he made the right move baised on the info given . As was stated above "He Violated Policy" So what! Self defence is a baisc human right. I'll give him the attiboy award. If I were him I would not want the job back if that is LJS policy

garrettwc
October 5, 2004, 12:23 AM
I have a question. LJS, like most all fast food places, is a franchise. That means they are owned by an individual who buys the rights to sell their product in a particular location.

Has anyone actually emailed Yum Brands to see if this a corporate policy or a policy of the local franchise owner?

Didn't we go through something like this with Applebee's where it was the local manager acting on his own biases and not the corporate entity?

c_yeager
October 5, 2004, 06:35 AM
I will continue to not eat their horrid food served in their awful "restaraunts". If they ask me why i will say that this is one of the reasons (along with the fact that they outright suck anyways).

Cool Hand Luke 22:36
October 5, 2004, 07:47 AM
I boycotted them long ago based on their atrocious food quality.......


Ka-ching! What garbage.

However, henceforth, consider my continued 20 year avoidance of LJS as part of the boycott.

aguyindallas
October 5, 2004, 12:14 PM
Well, you may remember a couple months ago when a Pizza Hut driver defended himself during the course of work and was then fired for carrying. Well, Pizza Hut is owned by Dallas based Yum Foods. They own several other brands, including Long John Silvers. It seems another employee has defended themselves and the companies property only to be fired.

For those that want to research the parent company, Yum Brands (http://www.yumbrands.com)

Here is the local news story.

FORT WORTHTexas - The manager of a Richardson fast-food restaurant is out of a job after defending himself and three teenage employees during a robbery attempt.


The manager, who did not want to be identified, said two men came into his Long John Silver's restaurant and demanded money. The manager handed over the money in the cash register, around $500, and then fought off the men with a hammer.

After giving the men the money the manager said he told the men to leave, but they resisted saying they wanted the rest of the money. The manager told them that there wasn't anymore money.

The 46-year-old Garland man said he felt like he needed to defend the three 16-year-old employees who were laid out on the floor. "It was going through my mind he was fixing to do something drastic to us ... so I started to look around ... I see his hands, you know, I don't see his hands on no weapon, but I see his hand ... and that's when I grabbed the hammer and I hit him upside the head," said the manager.

The two robbers left the restaurant without any money and none of the employees were hurt. Citing company policy, the manager said the restaurant fired him, after putting him on suspension for two days, for not following company policy and for putting the employees at risk during the robbery attempt.

"In my heart I feel like I did the right thing. There ain't no telling if I wouldn't have did it what the outcome might be ... somebody probably be dead," the manager said.

The Richardson Police Department has released photos (pictured, above, left) of the two men attempting the robbery and ask that anyone with information about their identities to notify the police.

roo_ster
October 5, 2004, 12:15 PM
You want me to boycott, fine, send me the videotape, the police reports

I don't have the tape, but saw it on the "if it bleeds, it leads" local newscast (this happened a few miles away from Chateau Ruser).

My wife saw it as well & was royally honked off. She made a beeline for the PC, & determined who owned LJS (Yum) and said, ""We're not ever again eating at LJS, KFC and Taco Bell."

Hooo-boy, was she hot under the collar!

I love that woman.

BTW, earlier in the day I sent a nastygram to LJS va their website.

I'm not a big boycotter, but I have no problem sending a nastygram to the deserving.

TRDBucket
October 5, 2004, 12:22 PM
:barf:

Someone should hit Yum Foods upside the head.

halvey
October 5, 2004, 12:30 PM
"It was going through my mind he was fixing to do something drastic to us ... so I started to look around ... I see his hands, you know, I don't see his hands on no weapon, but I see his hand ... and that's when I grabbed the hammer and I hit him upside the head," said the manager. Sounds like the thug was going to pull a weapon and the manager defends himself and gets fired for this? I hope he sues the stupidity out of YUM.

TRDBucket
October 5, 2004, 01:12 PM
Sounds like another place I'll have to curtail my spending of funds at... I have a local list that's starting to get quite long..... Darn, and I liked their stuffed crust pizza.

aguyindallas
October 5, 2004, 01:24 PM
TRD...I am in the same boat. I love Hooters Wings and they are anti CCW, so I dont get to visit anymore.

Pizza Hut really makes me mad, I LOVE stuffed crust pizza.

"Yes, I would like some pizza with my cheese" is my motto.

nitesite
October 5, 2004, 03:19 PM
NYSE > Listed Companies >Yum! Brands, Inc.
YUM! Brands, Inc. (YUM) is a quick service restaurant company with over 33,000 restaurants in more than 100 countries and territories. The Company is made up of six operating companies organized around the five restaurant concepts of KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, Long John Silver"s (LJS) and A&W
www.nyse.com/listed/yum.html - 12k - 2004-09-30

I hope he finds this a good time to make a career change into something that has better pay/hours, no weekend work, no damn teenager mentalities to contend with, etc. etc

TheEgg
October 5, 2004, 04:03 PM
violated company policy

Whoop-de-do!

It is MY policy not to be found dead in the back of a rat-infested grease trap with my head blown off. Sounds like it was this guys too -- in my opinion a sound, rational judgement. AFTER the fact, you deal with the company, and find a new job if necessary. Don't let self serving company "policies" slow you down, it might be fatal.

Some of you seem to agree with and support such "policies."

The only reason such policies exist (and they do, all over the place!) is that the corporate lawyers have decided that it is far cheaper to have 5 employees dead in the meat locker than it is to sanction any kind of resistance on the part of the employees that might lead to the company getting sued.

Any worth you have to your employer ends immediately when you might become a financial liability. They don't care if you are "terminated with extreme prejudice", just as long as the bottom line is healthy.

Ate one meal at a LJS once -- never again! I will e-mail them with my opinion of this "policy" but I don't think it will do any good at all. The lawyers and accountants will win this one, even if the one guy gets his job back.

Werewolf
October 5, 2004, 05:29 PM
The problem with company policies is that they cannot cover every conceivable situation.

They are guidelines and are not engraved in stone. Unfortunately your average unimaginative HR person - backed by the written word is everything I don't care if it doesn't make sense lawyer - believes that company policies are engraved in stone.

People aren't programmable robots. The universe isn't digital and policies no matter how detailed and numerous cannot cover every situation.

Sometimes - just sometimes - people have to use their minds and make judgements. Corporate lawyers and HR weenies seem however incapable of doing that. As a result human beings reduced to paper policies have to occasionally suffer the consequences of that failure.

Here's a prime example. About 15 years ago one of my employees had a problem with tardiness. She was counseled concerning the situation both verbally and in writing. She had gotten to the point that the next infraction meant termination. That got her attention. She went almost 6 months with no problems but didn't get in until 10AM one day. She called and told me she was going to be late and why. Her son had been in a car accident the night before and she was up at the hospital with him all night (verified by Hospital).

The HR weenies wanted to fire her. It didn't matter why she was late. The policy said she was to be fired. It took an hour of my time and an hour of the site manager's time and many overt and covert threats with the HR puke to convince him to lighten up. Needless to say we never got along after that and I've had little or no respect for HR types since and none of them have given me cause to change my low opinion either.

Unfortunately for the LJS supervisor he seems to be in the same situation without a boss courageous enough to take a stand for him.

I wish him luck and would advise him to find a good employment law lawyer (though that might do little good one never knows what a clever lawyer might accomplish).

Buck Snort
October 5, 2004, 05:45 PM
The BEST reason to boycott Long John Silver is because of the LOUSY FOOD!!

XLMiguel
October 5, 2004, 09:55 PM
KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, Long John Silver"s (LJS) and A&W - aha! AN epicurian cesspool.

I can't tell what really happened from all the noise, but my emotional response (assuming that what has been presented as "company policy" is more or less true), is that senior members of Yum! 'management' needs to be led to the back of one of their establishments, pistol whipped, sodomized, and then asked if they'd care to reconsider their policy on employee self defense. The flogging should continue until their heads are 'right', but that's just me. What on Earth are these people thinking?:fire: :fire: :fire:

All n'all, better to lose the job than your life, yes?

JohnMc
October 6, 2004, 09:49 AM
Has anyone actually emailed Yum Brands to see if this a corporate policy or a policy of the local franchise owner?
I tried the LJS and Yum brands websites. I couldn't find any "Contact Us" information. A search on the Yum website with the word "contact" yielded "No matches found for contact"

A boycott isn't much good unless the company knows about it & why.

IMHO, this proves they're chickens, fit for the Colonel's fryer. :evil:

effengee
October 6, 2004, 10:41 AM
A kitchen is full of potetial weapons...
A Navy seal/cook in a movie said it best:
"Nobody beats me in my kitchen!"
Various knives, long metal objects, pots and pans full of steaming foods, hot surfaces, slippery floors, brooms and mops, CERAMIC AND GLASS!!!
Granted, I won't have time to make the microwave bomb, but if you think the only way to defend yourself from a gun is to have another, bigger gun, you're dead already...

I don't need to carry at work...
I got a meat tenderizer that'd make a medieval mace shudder and a few 10" chef's knives that're sharp enough to cut a week into 9 days...
The hammer I can understand, as any of us here who work/have worked foodservice can attest to. (They're handy for prying open grease traps, and working on Hobart dishwashers)

It really confuses me when people say that to interfere with a criminal is stupid and even if you are armed you shouldn't do anything...

What's the point of carrying if you aren't willing to defend yourself or those around you from the scum of humanity?
This guy did what anyone should have done....
Recognize a threat, choose your battleground, and use the elements of surprise and deception to overwhelm the enemy.
No luck. No mojo. No magical potion.
Just a quick assesment, and moral conviction.
If I worked there, I'd quit.

jim

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
October 6, 2004, 10:58 AM
Suspect's grandma backs fired manager
Teen worker grateful ex-boss hit assailant; man surrenders in case


08:09 AM CDT on Wednesday, October 6, 2004

By JASON TRAHAN / The Dallas Morning News


The teenage worker didn't get a chance to thank her supervisor on the night he foiled a robbery at a Long John Silver's restaurant by hitting one of the attackers with a hammer.

By the time she returned to work a few days after the Sept. 18 robbery in Richardson, her boss had been fired. Company officials said he had endangered the employees' lives – including hers – by violating rules that require cooperation with robbers.

"I can understand the company policy saying that he shouldn't have put our lives in jeopardy, but we were already in jeopardy," said the young woman, who asked not to be identified while one of the robbers remains at large. "He did what he had to do, and I'm thankful. There's no way to know what would have happened if he hadn't. I was shocked when they let him go."

Police say two men – one with a mask – burst into the Long John Silver's on Belt Line Road, forced employees to the ground and then led the supervisor to the back of the restaurant. Fearing for his life, the supervisor picked up a hammer and hit the masked man. Both men fled, and the money was recovered. Days later, the manager was fired.

On Tuesday, 21-year-old Raymond Demond Clayborne of Dallas surrendered to Richardson police and was being held at the Richardson jail on suspicion of robbery. His bail was set at $50,000.

"We brought him over there about 3 a.m.," said Charlene Miles, Mr. Clayborne's grandmother, who said she helped raise Mr. Clayborne.

"We saw him on TV; they had him on camera in that robbery," she said. "I know that when the police are after you like that, they take no chances. I didn't want the police coming in here with their guns or getting him on the street. We didn't force him; he wanted to get this off his chest. He was raised in church. It had been eating at him."

She said even she is dismayed over the company's firing of the restaurant supervisor. "I don't think he should have been fired," Ms. Miles said. "I think I would have done that too, if it had been me. That's instinct."

Ms. Miles said the robber who was masked is an acquaintance of her grandson's.

"The boy that got hit, he came by here a day or two later," Ms. Miles said. "He said, 'Boy my head hurts!' He was scared to go to the doctor because he thought they would report him."

Richardson police Sgt. Keith Cannon said officers are searching for the man.

Mr. Clayborne was sentenced to a year's probation after he was caught in July 2003 stealing a television, stereo and cellphone from a Fry's Electronics in Dallas.

Authorities were in the process of revoking his probation when he surrendered Tuesday morning.

"I've done all I could to keep him out of trouble," Ms. Miles said. "He's in the Lord's hands."

E-mail jtrahan@dallasnews.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Online at: http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/100604dnmetlongjohn.a2c48.html

sendec
October 6, 2004, 12:15 PM
Werewolf,

Good example, but look at it from the HR standpoint: She had already burned any goodwill she may have had coming by her prior actions. If you have one employee who was never/seldom late, and one who had a chronic problem, albeit in remission, who "deserves" the break?

It is easy to criticize management, if you have never done it. It is a real delicate balance between what is good for the employees and what is good for the company. What might motivate LJS to have such a policy? Could someone have played hero in a different case, but without the positive results? Could it be because the majority of robberies do not involve injuries?

Things just usually are not as clear-cut as they appear at first blush. Policies are not developed in a vacumn. Who wants to bet that if things broke bad and the guy was'nt successful, and the robbers killed everyone, that the estates would be suing LJS for failing to control their employee? My first reaction was to think that LJS was nuts for firing the guy, even if only from a PR standpoint. But whats the backstory?

veloce851
October 6, 2004, 12:35 PM
I think the issue and the desire to boycott companies with policies like this is not neccessarly to resolve the firing of an employee so much, as point out to these companies that stupid policies like that need to be changed or abolished.
And that we the consumers can and due have the power to make our point by withholding our precious dollars.

Personally if I was the employee I'd plead my case in the public eye.
I'd be willing to bet he'll have multiple job offers shortly after.

He may not have a case for keeping his job. But that doesn't mean his arguement against the policy isn't valid.
And a consumer boycott could help him make this point.

lbmii
October 6, 2004, 01:06 PM
Yes please tell YUM all about what you think.

I did it's fun! :evil:

Here is a link for you to use.

http://www.yumbrands.com/contact/default.htm

kfranz
October 6, 2004, 01:09 PM
Did Pepsi sell them off, or is YUM a subsidiary?

Holly76201
October 7, 2004, 11:15 AM
I didn't read the story in the Dallas Morning Snooze, but I did see it on the local NBC affiliate.
And to those of you who say "He knew the company policy and worked there anyway"...he resisted with a HAMMER. But he still resisted. Still in that situation I think "Fight or Flight" kicks in and since he had 4 or 5 16 y.o. employess on the floor he chosse to defend his life AND theirs instead of running away like a Blissninny.

And those of us who are going to boycott need to call the locations where we're Not going , tell them why, and get the corporate # or Website addy to tell them why we're boycotting, i.e. we disagree with their no resistance policy, and we think this employee was unjustly fired for being a brave man.

halvey
October 7, 2004, 11:47 AM
I told them what I thought.

Isn't if funny when things like this are brought up, people say "I hate their food anyway" or "who cares, their service sucks"? SO WHAT! That's not the point.

Like when a Home Depot posted a sign banning guns. "so what, they suck" or "it's their property" or the "concealed means concealed" crap. It's my money, and you need my money to stay in business.

Start acting like our rights mean something guys.

CZ-100
October 7, 2004, 12:20 PM
Forgive me, Tharg, but you are mistaken..

A kitchen is full of potetial weapons...
A Navy seal/cook in a movie said it best:
"Nobody beats me in my kitchen!"
Various knives, long metal objects, pots and pans full of steaming foods, hot surfaces, slippery floors, brooms and mops, CERAMIC AND GLASS!!!
Granted, I won't have time to make the microwave bomb, but if you think the only way to defend yourself from a gun is to have another, bigger gun, you're dead already...

I don't need to carry at work...
I got a meat tenderizer that'd make a medieval mace shudder and a few 10" chef's knives that're sharp enough to cut a week into 9 days...
The hammer I can understand, as any of us here who work/have worked foodservice can attest to. (They're handy for prying open grease traps, and working on Hobart dishwashers)

It really confuses me when people say that to interfere with a criminal is stupid and even if you are armed you shouldn't do anything...

What's the point of carrying if you aren't willing to defend yourself or those around you from the scum of humanity?
This guy did what anyone should have done....
Recognize a threat, choose your battleground, and use the elements of surprise and deception to overwhelm the enemy.
No luck. No mojo. No magical potion.
Just a quick assesment, and moral conviction.
If I worked there, I'd quit.

jim

Good answer.

The only thing I would add is he should of hit him harder with the hammer... :D

I guarantee if I hit him he would not of gotten up and left! :D

sigman69
October 7, 2004, 12:39 PM
sent email

sturmruger
October 7, 2004, 01:05 PM
I have been boycotting LJS ????ty food for years!!! I hate HR departments, most of the corporate BS that gets implemented starts in the HR dept.

Lonestar.45
October 7, 2004, 01:15 PM
What do you want to bet that this guy gets offered a better job somewhere else after all of this publicity? I mean, the man worked there for 10 years, so he can't be that big of an employment risk. Hopefully there are some good samaritan business owners in that area who are looking at all this publicity and will get him hooked up.

Screw LJS and their policy. I understand why the policy is in place, but there has to be room for exception, and it ought to be looked at on a case-by-case scenario. Had he not believed he was about to be executed, I'm sure it would have ended up like every other run of the mill armed holdup, and the bad guys would have run out w/the $, only to later be caught.

What is wrong with this country these days, with the sheeple mentality running so rampant?

Werewolf
October 7, 2004, 01:51 PM
Sendec wrote:Werewolf,

Good example, but look at it from the HR standpoint: She had already burned any goodwill she may have had coming by her prior actions. If you have one employee who was never/seldom late, and one who had a chronic problem, albeit in remission, who "deserves" the break?

It is easy to criticize management, if you have never done it.But I have done it... And for many, many years (though I got out of the boss business about 5 years ago - I'm much happier now by the way).

My point was and is that company policies are not law - they are not engraved in stone - they cannot cover every conceivable situation. Thus they must be used as guidelines. Human judgement must occassionally be used to override what is written when what is written makes no situational sense.

The law recognizes that - it's why there are judges and juries. HR departments, in my experience however, do not. Give a mouse power over lions and they will exercise it to the fullest extent possible. HR departments are CYA groups. They produce nothing and know it. And that makes them feel bad. They're like legislators - if they ain't legislatin' then they feel like they ain't doin' their job. It doesn't matter that there are enough laws to do the job now - gotta make more to justify their existence. HR departments are the same - they are the bane of modern business 2nd only to lawyers.

In the LJS case it is just wrong to fire a guy who defended his life. How can any responsible company put it's profits ahead of the lives of it's employees? I know how - but I don't like it and neither should any other right thinking, moral person.

OK - I'm done ranting now.

Cosmoline
October 7, 2004, 02:24 PM
Outrageous. Companies are certainly entitled to be stupid. And we're certainly entitled to stop buying from them because they are stupid.

Old Dog
October 7, 2004, 02:32 PM
I can't speak for anyone else, but geez, I sure appreciate Sendec's clarifying that this whole issue is simply a Human Resource Management issue and that corporate policy trumps any American's right to preserve his or her life by defending one's self ...

And here I thought this country was predicated on our individual rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness ... and the freedom to protect ourselves from those who would attempt to take same from us.

sendec
October 7, 2004, 03:01 PM
Oh, bull, its easy to blubber on about the big bad meanies who make the rules, until, of course, you need one of those rules for your benefit, like for overtime and seniority.

HR doesnt produce, huh? Who hired you? Personnel assets are one of the largest investments in any company, whose worth is largely dependent on its personnel, which are largely a product of HR. If we could bottle commons sense, we would not need personnel manuals.

Go ahead, mail the guy a couple bucks, that'll do more good than getting all snitty. Life isnt fair, deal with it.

Tharg
October 7, 2004, 03:05 PM
Bah Effengee =)

I dont' think i'm wrong - but that is speculation on my part... just ask the gf =)

The point was if 100% of the time (ie: its never happened there) its been business as usuall - then MOST people are not prepared for when it becomes un-usual. Prepared via a gun, or a knife in the kitchen, a pot... the glass or ceramic you mentioned. or even a hammer.

In the Movie btw... the guy was a career seal - while i don't rule it out - most if not all food service managers probably aren't trained seals =)

I gave credit to the manager for thinking on his feet and realizing a situation, planning, and execution.

Someone did a book or a study or something - and said that the avg room ANYWHERE contained some number of weapons including things people would have never considered a weapon.... so of course a kitchen is prolly on the higher end of weapons about =)

J/Tharg!

Werewolf
October 7, 2004, 03:22 PM
Sendec asked:HR doesnt produce, huh? Who hired you?The VP of Operations hired me. The only contact I had with HR was after the fact and to fill out the legally required forms and sign up for Med Insurance.

I've worked for 3 Fortune 500 companies and 1 Fortune 50 company over the past 20 years and HR was never involved in any hiring decision. For hourly types they get involved - some - but the final decision has always been the hiring dept managers prerogative. Maybe other companies do it different but not the ones I've worked for.

HR should keep it's nose buried in benefits projects where it belongs and keep it's nose out of everything else.

Hell 60 years ago HR depts were the exception not the rule. Country got along just fine without them then. Look at employee relations now. It's totally hosed.

Does anyone think that 50 or 60 years ago a Pizza delivery guy or a restaurant supervisor would have been fired for defending their lives.

I don't! Thankyou to HR departments everywhere for making that kind of thing the norm today instead of the exception.

roo_ster
October 7, 2004, 06:50 PM
HR Employee=Social worker who wants better pay

Yes, social workers/HR have some valid functions. Unfortunately, they feel the need to expand their area of influence beyond what it is necessary for them to do...and are quite jealous of any authority they are given/gain.

It is best to keep them under tight supervision, lest they interfere with vital business functions and objectives. They are SUPPORT and need to be kept in that role.

Yep. I, too, have had some run-ins with overweening HR types. Exasperating bureaucrats. I've also run into a few squared-away HR types who understood their role. The overeweening ones can do great damage before they incite mgt to smack them into line.

Example of HR types with too much time on their hands and too much authority:


XXXXXXXX is Diversity Month and the XXXXXX Diversity Council is
presenting an interactive lunch,
"Voices of Diversity". Vignettes from the book, "Voices of
Diversity"
will be acted out by XXXXXX employees with follow up group discussion
sessions
by attendees. Attend to increase your diversity awareness in the
workplace.

Date: XXXXXXXXX
Place: XXXXX, XXX
Time: 11:15 - 12:15 (approximately)

Bring your own lunch, the XXXXXXX Diversity Council will provide refreshments
and a
light dessert for attendees.





This is a business function? This is wise stewardship of shareholder investment? This helps us meet our business objectives how? If the company zeroed out such expenditures, by how much could we reduce the employees' contribution to the health insurance plan?

I can't make this BS up. It is beyond parody.

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