Liberal gun owners???


October 4, 2004, 07:26 PM
Who out there is a liberal gun owner? Democrat, Green, Independent or even (gasp) Socialist. If so, what do you own?

No need for flames or debate. We are all on the same team. :)... Just wondering what % of THR is liberal.

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October 4, 2004, 07:34 PM
Democrat. On some issues I am "liberal", on some I am "conservative." The American political definitions of both words are really screwed up compared to their original meaning.

SAR-1, Mossberg 500, Mossberg 5500, XD .40, Tikka T3 (.308), and M1911

At work, I'm a weapons geek. So... Basically every modern military small arm in the world, I've played with it.

October 4, 2004, 07:38 PM
Oh, BTW I'm an independent liberal. I'm w/ the Green party on most things, but they are a little bit too naive for my taste... also, too many hippies.

A lot of liberals in this state are pro gun. My own mom is a democrat and thought that Dems were generally pro gun and Republicans were generally antis.

Glock 23, Remington 870 HD, Remington 700, Americanized Yugo SKS, savage arms .22.

October 4, 2004, 09:03 PM
I am socially liberal and economically conservative. I usually call myself a libertarian, but several of my friends insist I'm an anarchist.

I usually look at them strangely, since I'd be deliriously happy if we could get back to the republic, which was hardly an anarchy... but that's neither here nor there. You may count me in your statistics or not, as you wish. (And that really sums up a lot of my positions right there...)


October 4, 2004, 09:22 PM
Me, on most social issues. However, I'm hawkish on war issues and think Bush was actually too weak in fighting the so-called War on Terror. I'm also not a fan of overly weak policies on crime if they are done very fairly and correlated with programs to educate folks, etc.

I find conservatives to be too overly concerned with antifreedom social conservative policies and a willingness to control freedoms for their 'faith' or rigid personality structures.

Maybe I'm a touch libertarian but I certainly don't trust the free market not to produce it's own atrocities.

October 4, 2004, 09:54 PM
Holy Moley! Finally a crowd I can fit in with!

My voter's registration card says "No Party Affiliation" on the back.

I think that Bush fought the "War on Terror" way too loosely, and against the wrong guys.

I think that the Republicans that seem to be controlling the party are too concerned with doing whatever benefits their own interests, and justifying it by saying that they deserve to benefit by way of their faith. I'll never understand why it is that if their faith demands something of them, I should be compelled to obey the same commandment. My faith is my own, thanks.

Most democrats I know feel that "guns are bad" and that no law-abiding person should need to own one. Therefore, anyone who wants to own something as evil as a handgun is already a criminal. In spirit, if not in deed. Many feel that if a person has no desire to get up and make his own way in the world, that the country owes it to them to feed them, clothe them, and take care of their poopy-pants children. And yes, I have noted that the vast majority of "welfare mothers" are white women. People should have to earn their welfare.

I dream of the day when half of the welfare moms have to work government-supported day-care centers, so the other half can go learn to be nurses... nurses are always in short supply. And the homeless guys standing around on street corners can get a check, too... they just have to sweep up that mile of road to earn it. Or they can be school janitors. Or ladies can be teachers aides... Whatever. If they're already getting paid, they should have to work in order to collect.

Libertarians are way too free about selling off things that should be protected... like our National Parks, and highways. Sure it would make our tax burden less, but I don't mind paying taxes if part of the money goes to keep parts of America free from the Enrons of the world. Imagine the tolls we'd have to pay to drive on the Sony Expressway... or the British Petroleum Parkway... Talk about taking it up the ol' Hershey Highway!

Greens have a lot of the right ideas, but a lot of the wrong ones, too. We didn't claw our way up to the top of the food chain to sit around wearing daisy necklaces, singing Kum-bay-ah... or however the heck you spell it. I like eating steers. And big, fat, dirty pigs, too. Don't tell me how smart a pig is... I still wanna eat 'im.

And stop effing with the hunters, walking around in the woods banging pots together. I don't hunt, but in my opinion, since hunters actually pay 100% of all the wildlife conservation costs going on, then dammit, let 'em benefit. Any tree hugger that wants to walk around in the woods during hunting season should be considered fair game. Well, maybe we should limit that to bow hunters...

October 4, 2004, 10:46 PM
ditto cee tee.
I'm a liberal, but not a bleeding heart for *%(&^(* sure!
Often I work a very hard 50 or 60 hrs per week.
Love that part about putting welfare moms to work. I had one for a girl friend once. It was hard for me to compete with the welfare and her folk'es "allowance". Drained me dry and then she two timed me with another welfare hard luck case. Birds of a feather!

Sure I have leftist, pinko friends who would "freak" if they knew I was a shooter. I have many other friends who are left of center as I am, and who also shoot as well. Thank God we live in a free country (we are only free until they come for our guns).

Yes I send money to NRA and RKBA. Yes they are the ultra right. It's just one of those conflicted interests in life.

Give up my guns? Sure, just dig em out from beneath the high pile of brass marking my resting place. And I don't give a rat's pettuuee if who comes for them is an anti, commie, nazi, or whatever.

God bless all those on THR. Peace be with all of you.:p

October 4, 2004, 11:32 PM
Again, I argue that anyone who claims to be "liberal" and who really likes guns either didn't get the modern American liberal memo regarding guns....

Or.......that person really isn't as liberal as he or she thinks he or she is and just likes the label for some reason.

For example, Klover....

You like guns.

You think welfare is a ripoff for taxpayers.

Uh dude, you're not a liberal, at least not in the current definition of the term.

Maybe a "classical liberal" in the Jeffersonian term, but not in the modern sense of the word.

Same for you, ceetee, only more so.

You actually think that the War on Terror is not being waged hard enough. That's hardly a modern American liberal position.

All of you folks need to read the interview with Chris Hitchens I posted, with the title "Adieu to the Left."


October 4, 2004, 11:56 PM
Gun totin liberal here - I think the conservatives are wrong on the environment, abortion, separation of church and state, teaching of evolution in schools, stem cell research, the Patriot Act, the federal deficit, among others.

Conservatives a right on guns and welfare, that's about it.

October 5, 2004, 12:03 AM
Again, I argue that anyone who claims to be "liberal" and who really likes guns either didn't get the modern American liberal memo regarding guns....

Tis why I argued that the current definitions are screwed up.

Your definition of a liberal is a fluffy, agnostic, social-welfare-loving blissninny. Blissninny's definition of "conservative" is some ultra-Christian anti-freedom wack job. Me, I don't go to either extreme. I take it on the issue and call it as I see it. I don't like free handouts, whether it's a few thousand to some single moms, or a few billion to a corporation.

Captain Bligh
October 5, 2004, 12:15 AM
I count myself as a political liberal and a religious conservative. Thinking that only political conservatives enjoy shooting sports is fairly narrow-minded.

What do I own? I own shotguns, rifles, and concealable handguns. And, although I consider myself a political liberal, I'm conservative enough that I don't think it's a good idea to leave a list on the internet of all the guns that I own. :cool:

Captain Bligh

Beetle Bailey
October 5, 2004, 12:48 AM
Well, I am a member of the Green Party, so I guess you can call me a liberal.

Again, I argue that anyone who claims to be "liberal" and who really likes guns either didn't get the modern American liberal memo regarding guns....

Hillbilly, I just take the view that my party needs to be fixed a bit, with regards to the UN, foreign Green Party influence, and 2nd Amendment rights.

As for the original poster's question about what guns I shoot, it's mostly milsurp rifles. You get a lot for your money with the C&R rifles and I love the history they represent. For enjoyment purposes, it's the bolt-actions I really like, and I vowed not to buy any more semi-auto rifles (but I will make an exception for another M1 Garand because. . . well, just because :D ).

Regarding handguns, I have a few auto-pistols but no revolvers. Yet. I don't dislike any guns, but I doubt I'll get into muzzleloaders. No offense to people who enjoy muzzleloaders, but I think for now I'll stick to breech loading and self-contained cartridges. Don't own a shotgun yet, but plan on getting one for HD eventually.

One odd thing I noticed in my short time as a regular shooter is that if you bring two or more "ComBloc" type guns to the range with you, it's not uncommon for someone to sneer "Commie guns? You got those pinko weapons?" This includes my Finnish M39 Mosin Nagants! I call them my "commie-killer rifles!" This also includes my CZ 75B compact made in the Czech Republic in 2003, long after the ComBloc fell! Sheesh!

October 5, 2004, 01:11 AM
must keep mouth much economic nonsense being need to complicate thread...


October 5, 2004, 01:13 AM
Independent Veteran for Kerry here.

I have: IMI Timberwolf .357 and Baby Eagle compact, SA 1911 Operator, .30 Carbine, Styer Mauser a few Dan Wesson revolvers, P7 and some others

October 5, 2004, 01:33 AM
I welcome gunnies of all stripes, but I do think that our liberal brethren here are fundamentally mistaken in their belief that a government that does not value economic self-determination will still uphold personal liberty. I believe the two are inextricably linked, and suggest reading F.A. Hayek's The Road to Serfdom; he makes the case better than I can.

October 5, 2004, 05:09 AM
ursula le guin writes a sci-fi novel about a socialist utopia that isn't coersive...its in the "highly fictional" section at barnes and noble.


October 5, 2004, 07:31 AM
Define "liberal" and "conservative." I have views that some would see as falling under either rubric. My basic philosophy of government can be found in the first line of my sig. Government exists to defend rights, not to limit or eliminate them; it exists not to hold our hand and tell us how to live, but to make sure we can live freely.

I believe the ideal is maximum personal freedom coupled with maximim personal responsibility, along with local and/or non-governmental action to aid fellow citizens and improve society. I.e., instead of being forced to give our tax money to the federal government to waste in all kinds of weird ways in states or countries far away from where we live, we should donate our time and money to civic, church, or charitable organizations that aid the public welfare. And yes, I try to put my money where my mouth is on that point.

I don't believe that the ideal is to keep cutting taxes just so we can greedily sit on our own private wealth and let the other guy rot. If you cut taxes, you cut services. Some should be ditched, but all services? Ideally, the people could step in and more directly fulfill some of those needs. If you want to support the environment, get out there and start cleaning it while educating others and recycling and cutting waste at home. Want to see the arts funded? Donate your money freely to local museums or buy works from local artists instead of having your extorted tax dollars spent on art you don't like. Want to have a local community library? Volunteer your time, money, and books to help it flourish.

Realistcally, though, if the government did ever shrink and intefere less, many if not most people would just keep sitting around watching Oprah as things started to fall apart and then bitch and moan about how no one looks out for their interests or their community.

October 5, 2004, 09:59 AM
Realistcally, though, if the government did ever shrink and intefere less, many if not most people would just keep sitting around watching Oprah as things started to fall apart and then bitch and moan about how no one looks out for their interests or their community.

The sooner the better......:rolleyes:

October 5, 2004, 11:40 AM
Yeah, the definitions got a bit messed up somewhere back there, to where the Republicans are sneakily going for bigger government than the Democrats, the 'conservatives' are trying to amend the constitution and the 'liberals' want to leave it the way it is... no party is perfect.

I think I'm registered Independent, but I do tend to go with the Democrats. Yes, I disagree with them on some things. That's life. I've never been a 'love it or leave it' kinda guy, when it comes to America or to political parties or anything else. How about love it without being blind to its problems and try to change it if you can?

October 5, 2004, 11:52 AM
Roscoe wrote: Gun totin liberal here - I think the conservatives are wrong on the environment, abortion, separation of church and state, teaching of evolution in schools, stem cell research, the Patriot Act, the federal deficit, among others.

Conservatives a right on guns and welfare, that's about it.

I'm right there with you, Roscoe. Pretty much sums up my beliefs.

Chairman Meow
October 5, 2004, 11:54 AM
I'm liberal AND conservative because I want to CONSERVE LIBERTY! That makes me very much opposed to both the Republicrats and the Demublicans. I can't stand the religious war-mongering aspect of the right nor the BS pansy-ass soccer mom aspect of the left. At this point I think the best thing to do is vote to prevent trifecta so that neither party can just run with their f*#ked up agnedas. Not that my opinion matters, as I live in Utah where my vote for president doens't count anyway. :D

Black Snowman
October 5, 2004, 12:39 PM
So, Roscoe, Calhoun, is there any 3rd party that comes close? Liberitarians seem to be all over the map. Some good some bad. I support the good ones in my local elections. The Constituion Party has the right idea but I can't support them due to their severe Christian overtones.

I'm 1st for individual freedom. I support the constitution as written, not interperated and all of it, not just parts. The Patriot Acts, the Campaign Finance Reform, the mirad gun laws, plus all of the other unconstitutional laws out there REALLY piss me off and it makes me angery that there isn't an ACTIVE system for the Judical branch to strike down illegal laws but we have to wait for people to gather enough resources to fight them all the way to the SCotUS.

Liberitarians come closest for me but many have too isolationist a view of international relations. I believe that now that we are the largest financial and military force on earth that global politics and activites very much concern us and we have to be more active and centrally controlled than the drafters of the Constitution would have liked. We're no longer a liberated colony that can be easily overlooked by the rest of the world.

October 5, 2004, 01:08 PM
It's refreshing to see a thread like this! About a month ago, I started an online petition to the DNC in support of the 2nd A. You may read and sign it if you wish.

I know there was a "Pro-2nd Democrat" organization at one time, but it seems to have evaporated. I think they called themselves D2A. Anyone know what happened? Anyone interested in joining an organization like that? I might be interested into helping reorganize such an effort.

(By the way, my small but growing arsenal includes a Makarov, SKS, Mossberg .410 just for kicks...still need a good 12-gauge, .45 and maybe a 30-30. I'm also counting the days until I get my new Hoyt compound bow.)

October 5, 2004, 01:11 PM
I would not call myself liberal, though I'm sure some would, then again others would consider me conservative. I consider myself independent. To demonstrate... I started voting for president in 1980, haven't missed an election since then, have yet to have the guy I vote for win. I've frequently voted third party, and have been know to write in candidates.

I'm dead set against government prayer in school, and you are too. if you think you aren't you just aren't using your imagination yet (e.g. imagine a prayer led by a teacher paid by your tax dollars that starts out "Alah be praised", or "Greatest Satan", or "hear us pantheon of Gods"). I think anyone who drops out of school should never get a penny of welfare. On the other hand I think it is despicable that rich neighborhoods are allowed to levy themselves to improve (only) their schools. A free education is fundamental to a viable democracy. All money should go in one pot and be given out equally. Same with voting machines.

I'm pro-death penalty, in theory at least, meaning if they could guarantee no mistakes were made I'd be for it. Since they can't do this I reluctantly support life without parol. I support the war against Saddam, though never thought he was involved with Osama Bin Breathin Too Long.

On guns: grew up with a .22 rifle and a .303 in the house. Dad would take us plinking with the .22 every other year or so. Bought a shotgun at age 28 to reduce the squirrel problem at Dad's sugar bush. Shortly after bought a .22 of my own for plinking, then a year later a .22 target pistol, since the rifle wasn't challenging on a 50' indoor range. The pistol unnerved me a bit at first. Holding a gun that was so short you could easilly point it at yourself to took some getting used to. But target shooting was fun, and I've run thousands of rounds through it.

Minnesota passed its carry law a year and a half ago. At the time I thought all the classic liberal things "every fender bender will turn into a shoot out", "people carrying guns just isn't what we do in enligtened Minnesota", etc... In my defense I will say that I was aware that Florida had been doing this for years, and I hadn't actually heard of any fender bender shoot outs. After about a year of thinking about this (and noticing no shoot outs on our streets) I decided to get a CCW. I don't carry often, but I'm glad I have the option. If circumstances change I can instantly start carrying all the time.

Future gun plans... I'd like to get an M1 Garand and compete with it. Not looking to spend a ton of money, nor do I expect to beat anyone else, just would like to see myself steadily improve and think it is a neat way to connect with history to use the rifle that faught Hitler and Hirohito. I'd also like to get a larger caliber auto pistol, perhaps a 1911 or a BHP. Would like to have it as a higher capacity carry alternative, but would also like to compete with it as well.

Am not a member of the NRA, but am a lot more open to that now than in the past.

Joe Demko
October 5, 2004, 02:00 PM
According to the Political Compass, economically I lean slightly left (due primarily to being in favor of public education) and am socially a libertarian. For those who inist on identification with a party/ideology, I usually identify myself simply as a libertarian. Lots of self-styled conservatives here, though, would insist that I am a Liberal.
Regardless, I have few good things to say about either the Republicans or the Democrats. They are far more alike than they are different, suffice it to say.
While I won't reveal every last thing in my gun safe, I will mention that I have a couple of Bushmasters, a PTR-91, and a Marlin 1895C that get shot a lot. Handgun-wise, my USP40 and Springfield 1911 go to the range a lot, as does my pre-agreement no-lock S&W 686.

October 5, 2004, 03:00 PM
Yep. Armed Liberal (and proud of it) :evil: I easily fit in the fiscal conservative social liberal not quite Libertarian model. I own my property and pay taxes on it and as long as I don't do anything that physically harms my neighbors everyone can keep out. I don't mind helping folks down on their luck, but would hang parasites. I think funding scientific research and arts and education and wilderness parks constitutes enlightend self interest. Sounds like Roscoe and Calhoun and I should start a party (or change one).

Various milsurps - p17, 03, 03a3, Garand, Model 97 Riot, Model 12 Riot, M1 carbine, M1A, AR, AK, RPK, Dragunov, 90/30, 91, M39, Swede Mauser, K98, 303 Jungle Carbine, etc.

Then the handguns - mostly BHPs, CZs, and Paraordnances.

October 5, 2004, 03:07 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot the second part of the question.

Answer: Well, none, really. Guess I don't count then? I rent from the local indoor range on a regular basis, and own a lot of prop weapons (I run a small props rental business), but I've yet to convince the wife that having a real gun in the house is not only acceptable but also worth spending the money on.

So, hey, if any of you bleeding heart gun-totin' liberals are looking for ways to give handouts in a pro-gun way...;)

October 5, 2004, 04:08 PM
I have a friend, one of my oldest friends, we started our first band when we were 12. He's an aethist, vegan, homosexual. He's pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, and even believes illegal aliens should be given citizenship so they could get government assistance, "for the children". He squealed like a pig under a gate after the last election and still swears Bush didn't win. He also practicially sleeps with the Glock on his hip. He believes that owning a gun is not only a right, but it's the responsibility of every American to own firearms.
Last time he was in state, we were sitting around discussing politics and he said he was unsure who to vote for. Said Kerry would be his man if it wasn't for the terrorist threat. And the wife had the most sage advice. "You know they're both gonna do it, so you vote for the one that'll kiss you first."

October 5, 2004, 05:43 PM
Gun lovin' liberal here!
Conservatives are right about gun ownership and nuclear energy and wrong on just about everything else.

ESPECIALLY: Injecting one's personal religious beliefs into everyone's government is an unforgivable offense as far as I'm concerned.

And as far as welfare goes... help them with job training and child care and help them get back off it. Some abuse the system and some really need help. Don't toss the baby with the bathwater. FIX the system.

I own 11 handguns and 2 rifles, vote Democrat and tell the party how I feel about guns and nuclear energy every chance I get.

October 5, 2004, 06:12 PM
Yep, I'm a San Francisco Bay Area vegan, atheist, unionized public school teacher, don't have any problem with homosexuals, son of an immigrant (legal) on one side and grandson to an immigrant (also legal) on the other, over-educated, underpaid, Liberal Independent. Fiscally moderate, socially liberal and I have always been in complete wonder that protecting the 2nd amendment wasn't a liberal cause. If there were an active 2nd amendment Democratic Party movement I'd become a Dem just to be in it. Oh, and I almost forgot, I wear Birkenstocks nearly every day! (Not while shooting though, hot brass SUCKS on bare toes) Been shooting since I was 10 and before I became vegan I took 6-7 Michigan Whitetails, tons of squirrels and rabbits and a few pheasant. There isn't any point to hunting if you don't eat your kill though.
I have a safe full of C&R rifles, love my M1A (when its in one piece), my Kimber 1911 and my Smith 629 classic w/ 5 inch barrel.

I have undertaken a mission to take as many "never shot a gun before" liberal pals to the range as I can. They may never shoot again but the evil unknown gun has become a known, not so evil gun for them. Win their hearts and minds...

Gordon Fink
October 5, 2004, 06:33 PM
The trouble is, though, that “conservatives” aren’t really that good on guns. They think you should be able to have rifles and shotguns for hunting and shotguns and revolvers for self-defense, but they’re still pretty leery of high-capacity, semi-automatic “assault weapons.”

On the other hand, “liberals” think only licensed hunters and “collectors” should be allowed to own rifles and shotguns. Of course, nobody should have those sneaky handguns and deadly “assault weapons,” except maybe the police and military.

Anyway, neither side of the false American political dichotomy really gives the RKBA more than lip service.

~G. Fink, libertarian gun owner

October 5, 2004, 08:35 PM
When it comes to the economy, I am liberal. It seems as if every time the republicans get in office there are a lot of good hard working people out of work. Some are my friends.
On most other issues I am conservative. I usually hold my nose and vote Republican.


October 6, 2004, 12:28 AM
If you are interested, check out the Democratic Freedom Caucus:

Gun Toting Liberals:

Armed Liberal :

many of you may have see Cottrol's 'A Liberal's Lament'

See, there are some of us out there, but I am also sure we could all fit in a Geo Metro.

October 6, 2004, 01:21 AM
The Dark, Creepy, Authoritarian Conservative.

This is an animal that has chased far too many decent and honorable folks out of the Conservative camp, and straight into the arms of the hard core collectivoLeftists who currently control the Democratic party.

In my view, a sane and balanced political future for America has the following features:

-Continued critter control on the DCACs within the GOP
-Serious delousing of the hard core collectivoLeftists amongst the Dems.

And then perhaps we can all get back to the business of being Americans, via reinstalling the Constitutional Republic, which pretty much enables everyone to carry on as more or less as they see fit.

Getting 'tween here and there's gonna be an interesting ride....

October 6, 2004, 01:29 AM
By classic definition, I end up right where the Liberal Democrat party does.

Of course that is the English party, not the American party, whose candidates are more authoritarian:

Take the test and find out for yourself where you fit:

October 6, 2004, 04:56 AM
I pretty much tow the libertarian party line. Check out where they fall on issues maybe some of you leftys out there are actually Libertarians

October 6, 2004, 09:04 AM
I have few good things to say about either the Republicans or the Democrats. They are far more alike than they are different, suffice it to say.

Agree with the above, each pander to there own groups and in the end
don't appear to fight for America, I do not see a true leader in our future,
could one even exist in present day Washington. At present I vote
republican as the lesser of two evils, but it's a slim line.:(

Old Dog
October 6, 2004, 03:52 PM
I WAS a liberal ... then I lived in California ...
then I was a crime victim, and witnessed firsthand the effects of a liberal district's judicial system ...
then, I went to Iraq (and again ...).
But I still own guns ... but won't list 'em all on the internet ...

October 6, 2004, 05:04 PM
I guess one could consider me a libertarian. Although very fiscally conservative (in a free society, the consumer should be informed to regulate industry), I am socially for freedoms. People should be able to make their own values when it comes to these things, none of governments business. Although, I feel abortion is murder if it is performed after about the first month (unless the mother is at risk from delivery). The costs of regulating the actions of citizens as well as principles are shaky at best, and outweigh any consequences. In some ways, I want to see a return to the society of the early American years, but in others I want the government to change. I guess I am weird though.

October 6, 2004, 05:17 PM
Heh. That test put me closest to Ghandi.

...I'm amused.

October 6, 2004, 09:37 PM
when I lived in VA I was considered a flaming leftist,

now that I'm in MD, it seems that I'm more conservative than Gov. Ehrlich:rolleyes:

I guess I'm a liberal independent. . .

guns? what guns?:D

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