[ArMa]

ok I'm 15 and I recently noticed that I was one gun short of a good deer rifle so I looked into getting one and saw that remington model 710 for 425 bucks with scope and it sounds too good to be true so theres probably some kinda catch.. I was initially looking for a Winchester model 70 or a Ruger model 77 but if anyone knows about the 710 that would help me in choosing that over the other two more expensive guns then please speak up. you can find the model 710 Here (http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/fi_710.htm) any input will be greatly appreciated. thanks.

[Barrelmaker]

I would not buy it. Barrel is pressed in. That means it you wear the thing out you have a disposable rifle. Not a good thing in my book. Look for a good used rifle in your area and you won't go wrong. Save some money too!!

[ArMa]

hmm good point I'll ponder on that...

[Brian Williams]

Look for a used Win mod 70 or Ruger 77 in 243, 7mm-08, 308.

I got mine for $399, it is a Win Model 70 Classic Compact in 7mm-08.

NEF has the Handi Rifle. These can be gotten for about $150 used and $170 new. I ahve on ein 243 for rotten weather hunting.

Also look at the combo packs that Savage has out nice rifle (everybody says needs a trigger but???) and scope with a hard carry case for around $400

Now is a good time to get a deal on a used rifle cause the new rifles that didnot shoot for Deer season have been traded in for some thing hotter or flatter shooting or more accurate and a mirade of different reasons other than lack of practice.

[Art Eatman]

A clean, used Savage or Tikka (as examples) with a clean bore and no dings at the muzzle will serve you well, and should be reasonably priced--oughta be down toward $300, but certainly under $400.

Sometimes you'll find something in a less-popular caliber. As a for instance, for whatever reason, a .270 will be offered at a lower price than an '06 or such. The .270 is one of the better hunting cartridges for almost any purpose.

.308s oughta generally run less 'cause there are bunches of them.

Art

[cratz2]

If you are wanting to stick with a brand new package rifle, I'd definately lean towards the Savage over the 710. I've handled a couple of the 710s and both of them were pretty rough including the trigger. The Savages, esp with a wood stock, are pretty solid rifles other than the trigger and it should be just fine for deer hunting accuracy.

If you're not in a hurry, you'll eventually find a good deal looking around on gunbroker.com and auctionarms.com I bought a Ruger 77 in 25-06 with a Weaver 2-10x scope and leather sling for $210, if I remember correctly. Scope was OK but sold it for $100 and ended up putting a 3-10x Grand Slam on there. Again, the trigger was a bit rough but I found a local guy that adjusts and stones triggers for $35. So now I have a rifle that shoots into MOA (probably a bit better with a better shooter) with a bright scope and a good trigger for $375 that I'll put up against any non-custom carry weight rifle out there.

[ojibweindian]

Savage 110 package at Wal Mart is a good deal. Brand new rifle for $399, after tax.

I've heard very little good about the Remington 710. FWIW.

[wanderinwalker]

Unfortunately, I am pretty much no help when it comes to keeping expenses down on gun shopping! :)

I would definitely recommend checking the used gun racks often. The other day I found a slightly-worn .30-06 Model 70 Featherweight for just under $400. (Don't need another rifle, otherwise it might have come home.) There are plenty of .270/.30-06 class deer rifles to be had.

Oh yeah, I'm only a few years older than you. My first deer rifle was a Ruger 96/44, which set up with scope came out to roughly $350-400 dollars. Now I carry a Remington Mountain Rifle in .260 REM, with a 2-7x33mm scope. OTD cost around $800.

[redneck2]

you said in your post that you're 15

I'd STRONGLY suggest patience, and more patience

refer to above suggestions, and the years of experience involved.

deer season's a long ways off. I'm a Remington fan, but I'd pass on the 710. I work part-time in a gun shop. We got some in, looked at them, and sent them back.

I'd suggest getting a .308. Ammo is cheap and it's got plenty of whack. Personally, I don't think brand is as important as getting something that you like and you're comfortable with.

Keep looking. You'll find a deal somewhere.

[Steve Smith]

I'd say visit gun shows and have a wad of cash in your pocket. Maybe $350. Don't feel like you have to buy the first time you see something, and obviously go with an adult who knows how to bargain and what guns are worth the time of day. If it sounds like a good deal, offer $50 less and be pretty stern. You don't have to meet his price. You oughtta be able to get a good rifle and a scope for less than $350.

[ArMa]

well i talked to my local gun shop and they said that they can hook me up with a new Winchester model 70 super steath in 300 WSM W/ simmons ATEC scope for little under 650. so I think I'll see what I can do with that. My grandpa however thinks that if I want a good rifle I should get one with a walnut stock, but I think I like synthetic.

[Ullr]

I'd suggest steering clear of the new ultra- mega- mag cartridges, particularly for a first rifle. Reasons:

(1) Recoil -- magnum ballistics cost you magnum recoil. Not a good way to avoid developing a flinch. There's plenty of "shot once" ultra magnum hardware on the rack in gunshops around here.

(2) Cost -- not of the rifle, but of the ammo. .308 Win, 30'06, etc. -- you can get cheap, decent surplus for practice and still be able to afford quality soft-points for bambi. Take a look at what factory-loaded .300 RUM or WSM or whatever new-fangled cartridge costs.

(3) Longevity -- WSM cartridges are fairly new, and while popular, might not last. Don't get stuck with an oddball, nearly dicontinued cartridge that'll cost a fortune to feed (see (2), above).

There's nothing wrong with cartridge proliferation, per se, but I'd recommend against something exotic for a first rifle.

My $0.02

[wanderinwalker]

I'll chime in here about big-magnums and how well people shoot with them.

When I watch other hunters sighting in for the season at the range, all they do is shoot off of the sandbags. What is worse, is they normally turn their attention to the 100 yard gong before they go. Now this gong is 2 feet across. From a bench it is such an easy target (for me) it's not worth shooting. Most of these other hunters, with their 7mm Magnums, .300 Magnums, and even a few .30-06s have a hard time keeping 3 of 5 on that 2 foot plate.

My vote would be to pick up a 7mm-08 or .308 chambered rifle. It won't beat you to a pulp or flatten your ears with blast. It will also be capable of reaching out to 300 yards IF you're good enough with it.

This recoil problem is why I chose the .260 Remington for my uses. It has enough punch for any <500 pound class animal within the limits of my shooting skill. And remember, more horsepower DOES NOT substitute for skill.

[Art Eatman]

I fully understand the fun of something that's "NEW!". Sorta like Christmas. :)

But there's nothing wrong with a used rifle. I like my new 700Ti, but if I were "seriously serious" about wanting to hit some target, I'd grab Ol' Pet. It's 32 years old, with some 4,000+ rounds through it. That's "used", but it's my never-miss gun.

Never be in a hurry to buy. Money goes out a lot faster and easier than it comes in.

:), Art

[ArMa]

yea I see your point(s), late last night I talked to one of my friends i know that is a guide and he strongly disagreed on the WSM he said that it was "too new and too much pressure, therefore more could go wrong" then he said "stick to what works and you cant go wrong if you want a magnum go for the regular 300 win mag." so I was taking that into consideration when I saw these posts. so i think im going to get the model 70 in 300 win mag. Its my birthday present so I figured I get the new one. But what do you prefer synthetic or wooden?

[wanderinwalker]

But what do you prefer synthetic or wooden?

I have a wooden stocked Mountain Rifle. One of the few days I got to hunt last fall was in a blizzard. Rifle still looks fine, even after growing icicles on that trip! (Actually, I carried that rifle every day I hunted, and it was raining/snowing all but 1 of those days. No rust, no rot, no worries.) Properly sealed and treated a wooden stock should be a non-issue.

The only synthetic stock I will even consider is the Bell and Carlson used on the Weatherby Accumark. MMmmmmm... Weatherby Accumark, 7mm Weatherby Magnum....

I see that you are pretty dead-set on a magnum. If it is going to be used primarily as a deer rifle, you might want to consider the 7mm Remington Magnum. Slightly more common and easier to find ammunition for than the .300 Win Mag.

[Delmar]

ArMa,
Have you any trigger time behind what you are looking for, or have at least shot the caliber in maybe another style of rifle? Believe me, deer do not, as a general rule do not take a lot to bring down with a clean, one shot kill.
My late aunt hunted with a 250 Savage and ate pretty near every day. Poachers use 22 long rifles-certainly not recomended, but just to illustrate what can be done with some practice and skill.
If you are making deer your biggest animal to hunt, the 270 winchester shoots realistically as flat as anything else and better than most. Also, the short action cartridges, such as 243/260/7MM-08/308 are all fine calibers and will get the job done as well as if you hit them with an elephant rifle.
If you have an idea of hunting large bears or dangerous game, the 300 Win mag is what I would consider minimum and preferably more if you can take the recoil. Lots of people here will tell you true stories of taking huge bears with what we would consider light cartridges.
If you just enjoy the kick of a magnum-and some people do, go for all that you can get and have fun-and don't forget to come back and tell us about your hunting experience with your new rifle!

[Art Eatman]

ArMa, how tall/heavy are you, now?

I was 16 when I got my first '06. About 5'-10", 130 or so pounds. I dearly loved that old Enfield, but it danged near beat me to death!

I've killed some 20 or so pretty nice whitetail bucks with my .243, and I won't mention the does during my herd-reduction program on the family ranch. :) And, the .243 doubles as one heckuva sweet varmint gun, as well. I'd call it a bit light for big mulies and elk, of course.

The only way I wouldn't go with a wood stock is if I hunted a lot in a very wet climate. "Plastic" just gives you one less thing to worry about, then.

:), Art

[SteveS]

Will you be hunting from a blind, or moving around a lot? Are you going to have to carry it a long distance? I hunt in an area where it is not practical to move around, so I am in a blind. Additionally, most of my shots aren't any farther than 75 yards. I prefer a shorter barrel, so I am not bumping into the sides of my blind. That being said, I recently picked up a Model 7 in 7mm-08.

Over the years, I have also used a .270 and a .30-06 and have always felt they were more than adequate. I agree with others that say be patient and get a decent quality gun, since you will have it for many years.

[ArMa]

ok guys with my new insight thanks to everyones help I went back to the gun store once again and said well maybe I oughtta lower the bar on the caliber and mellow it down to a more cost effecient caliber, I said I was interested in a '06 and he said that if you want a good model 70 in '06 with a scope for under 700 it will have to be used. im not too good to have a used gun but I would just rather put the stratches and blemishes in myself. he also showed me a ruger 77 All Weather with synthetic and stainless steel with Redfield scope for just over 500 now (the stock on the gun is horridly ugly i think i would have to invest in a houge stock for it later on) that would give me just enough to get some ammo a bore snake and a bipod. They also had a winchester umm... gray shadow? if im not mistakin' that was made for the Rocky mountain elk foundation, that has a 26" barrel and synthetic stock with matte black finish on the barrel in .300 win mag. This is a tough decision, please help me decide.

sorry for making this thread longer than it should be... this is a pretty big decision on my part.

[wanderinwalker]

No such thing as too long! You're asking for advice, we are giving (or in my case, attempting to give ;) ) it!

I'm in full agreement with you about the new Ruger plastic stock. The one I handled in the shop felt cheap and like I could flex it with a tight sling. But, there is something to be said for a dependable rifle that can be had for under $500 and comes with scope rings as part of the package. I doubt that any misses against a game animal could be attributed to the rifle anyway! :)

Take your time, choose wisely. I took quite a while to decide to pick up that Mountain Rifle in .260, even though it was my dream whitetail gun. Be patient, and don't be surprised if you end up with multiple rifles some day!

[Mannlicher]

Considering that most folks shoot that deer rifle less than 100 times in their life, the 710 is not a bad choice. It is not extreme high quality, but it will darn sure kill deer.
Now the 'purists' here, will decry this, but facts are facts. The 710 will go bang every time, and will shoot 'deer accurate'.

[Art Eatman]

Hey, ArMa, no problem! :)

Some more thoughts: Style of hunting. Carrying a nine-pound package for five or ten miles is a lot different from walking to a stand and then mostly sitting.

And then there's the issue of typical ranges at which one would shoot. If most shots are rarely over a couple of hundred yards, it's a different deal from a situation where most shots are gonna be out at 300 or more.

As far as a "way out there" deer: I've only had two really long shots, in a whole bunch of years. One at 350 yards; one at 450. Both were DRT--dead right there--with one shot (each :D) from an '06. In both cases, the bullets hit right where I wanted them to. I would in no way have needed more horsepower than the '06.

No matter what you get, you MUST learn its trajectory for various ranges. (Not to mention learning how to judge the distance.)

Off the cuff, I'd back off a bit and think about the sort of hunting you'll most likely be doing over the next several years. Heck, that's what fathers and uncles and all those folks are for. I've found that thinking out loud can be a real help.

Art

[ArMa]

the reason I have not specified what kind of enviroment, range, and species I will be hunting in is because I hunt 2 places one, at a ranch that I earned rights to hunt at where the range is never more that 200 yards; and the other is well im not sure... see the guy that takes me hunting is a guide that takes me where ever his client wants to go, so it varies one day I might need to take my Desert Eagle or model '94 because of thick brush or use his AR-50 .50 BMG (which I have only shot once, at a bowling ball) so it varies where I hunt by alot I cant specify how far I will shooting but if the shot is probably over 3-4 hundred yards he'll probably take the shot. He uses a Sako 75 in 7mm rem mag for most applications.
I noticed that Winchesters .300 mag ammo is about 25 for bottom of the line and 40 for top of the line, you couldnt spend 40 dollars on a box of 20 '06's no matter where you bought them, thats one big factor that keeps running through my head, that and the fact that I wouldnt have a bipod for a while on the winchester if I bought it. Those factors aside, I think im leaning towards the winchester.

btw: I didnt see the question about my hieght/weight 'till just now, I turn 16 in april but right now im pretty big, im 6'1" 210lbs and I LOVE the kick of guns I shoot that guide's Blaser .338 laupa mag all the time, if I had the extra $$$ I'd get one of those. :D

[Zorro]

Savage 110, in 30-06.

30-06 is cheap to feed ammo, near Magnum in power, and moderate in recoil.

I suggest 165 grain bullets for deer with it.

[ArMa]

I think im pretty much set on the Winchester, maybe the ruger. But thanks anyway zorro, I also heard that the triggers on the savages are horrid.

[Art Eatman]

Hokay. Sounds like you have a good deal going for you. In those circumstances, I'd most likely go with the '06. (Granted that I'm biased, after all these years.)

And now I'll get away from suggestions and all and go to giving advice: Get the Sierra reloading handbook. It has the best information about exterior ballistics, bullet coefficients and trajectories of any. And the reloading data ain't bad, either. :)

Next, look around for a good used "C" or "O" reloading press. Every now and then you hit upon a really good deal at a gunshow. It's easy to check a resizing die against scrateches. Powder scales are easily calibrated. Scrounging around and keeping your eyes open can put you in the game for half-price or less. RCBS stuff works just fine. Most all of them do, for that matter.

For instance, I have one "C" press that's probably over 60 years old; and an old C&H that's maybeso the same age. They work fine, although I use an RCBS Rockchucker for most of my doings. I'm still using some '06 dies that were not new when I got them in 1950. This stuff just doesn't go bad, unless you let it rust...

Unless you're into serious target or benchrest competition, the low-cost stuff works great.

The reason I harp on reloading is that you can load "mid-range" or plinkers, and do a whole bunch of cheap shooting to develop really good eye-finger coordination--and have a bunch of fun at the same time.

:), Art

[ArMa]

ok thanks for the info on reloading, I would've expected more debating information about the my choice but you took it well, dont worry I'll get an '06 one day pal :D. after all im only 15 and already have a Ruger MKII in SS, a Desert Eagle .44 in matte black, Winchester Super X2 in matte black/Synthectic, and a pre-64 winchester model 94 (gift from grandpa). My next project will be getting a model 94 in .44 magnum probably, then getting a CTC Laser grip for my MKII.... the list goes on...

[Art Eatman]

:) About all I ever try to do is make sure folks have pretty much thought out all the "stuff" about something before laying the money down. It's not my place to really tell somebody "What ya oughta do is..."

I just try to lay out the "possibles", and then it's up to a fella to do what he thinks is right for him--not for me. I'm no Guru; I've just been around a fair while.

:), Art

[Marshall]

If you're talking Whitetail Deer, consider a Marlin or Win. 30-30. More Deer shot with these two guns than any others. They are not expensive and can have scopes mounted if you like. Excellent first or second or third Whitletail gun, for adults or youth.

;)

[BusMaster007]

;) Pardon the pun, but,
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/clothing/images/m/30131970.jpg
"Buck" tradition and try a Browning BAR Stalker:

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=002B&cat_id=031&type_id=008

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/images/031008111m.jpg

Smooth...

Pick an option like the BOSS and you can tune this unit to the ammo YOU like.
Standard calibers like the .30-06 come with open sights and that's a good thing, too.

A plain old 6X scope by NIKON or Leupold in QD rings/base setup would be excellent for either sights or BOSS.
Wicked looking gun. Accurate gun. Really fun gun! :D

[ArMa]

um thanks guys but my decision is made. also my ranch called and said they needed help on some fencing so I can make somewhere around 150 bucks getting paid $20/hr so I have already decided what im going to do with the money:
Butler Creek Flip-Open Scope Covers-10
Harris Bipod-75
.300 Winchester Magnum Ammo-25
Bore Snake-15
Ultra Padded Rifle Sling-25
any other acc. you think I might need?

also has anyone even heard of these gray shadow model 70's? my gun store only got a few of them in, somthing about Rocky mountian Elk foundation exclusive.. blah blah I dont know...:confused:

[ArMa]

um.. anything wrong with "push feed" models?

[Art Eatman]

About the only advantage of a claw feed is when hunting dangerous game, where if you somehow goof on a very-necessary reload you're somebody's lunch.

My two pet rifles are both push feeds, and I've had no trouble in 30 years.

The advantage to a push feed is that the case is more fully enclosed. This makes the package much stronger in the event I goof when I reload; over-pressure won't blow out the cartridge case. About the worst situation would be a punctured primer, which is nowhere near as bad as a ruptured case.

When Remington first brought out the 721, the fore-runner to the 700, their highly-publicized acid test was four 220-grain bullets ahead of a casefull of powder. Nothing bad happened. (Should have been an interesting one-shot group, right? Shame they didn't say. :D)

Art

[Itote]

Any modern rifle will perform well in just about any hunting situation.You can shoot just as good a group with a Savage as you can with a Weatherby.(There's not much difference in a half inch and an inch and a half unless your gonna compete with it.)Find a rifle YOU LIKE in a reasonable caliber(243 or larger)and you'll be good to go. The most important part of your weapon will be your scope! Dont scrimp here.Buy the best piece of glass you can afford.Leupold,Nikon,and Weaver Grand Slam are great and can be had for around $350.00. You cant see crap early or late with those Wally World specials and that's often the time you'll get most of your shots.
Good Luck.

[ArMa]

well the top-dog at the gun store is my good friends dad, the store is mostly family owned and operated with the execption of a few 'specialist' like a gunsmith and this guy who uhh.. just talks about crazy stuff you can do with hydrogen and a microwave. I shot on their trap team in the summer and I get real good deals on guns there, like my Super X2 I bought was 15% off. Getting to my point.....they said I could get a simmons AETEC or a Leupold Vari-X II put on the gun for a 700, he didnt specify the power. He recommended the AETEC.

[Itote]

I've got an Aetec on my Remington Model 7 7mm08 and it's a great shooter. For the money,this little scope is hard to beat.Gathers light real well and has a crisp,clear view.I wouldn't hesitate to buy one again.

Good Luck:)

[ArMa]

well guys you wont believe it.... my mom was the one that was going to help me buy this gun and she went with me to look at it today for the first time, she saw it and said "I dont like that color"... this is a typical woman first thing they ask when buying a car is what color is it... she didnt like the stone gray, infact she hated it. She said that I should do like my grandpa said and get one with a nice walnut stock, I smiled and strongly agreed knowing that the next rifle up in walnut was the "super grade model 70" I said how nice it was and how the action was better (controlled round feed) she then saw how pretty the checkered walnut was. She then insisted that I took the bipod and scope out of her part of the deal and let me buy the buy them, "fine with me", I said knowing that I would make everybody happy with this beaut' the only problem is I have to get a good scope for like 340 bucks that I dont have yet... so does anyone have any comments on the Model 70 Super Grade in '06 (thats right... '06, I got my '06 I promised you Art :D )

[Steve F]

GOOD move there!:D ,Hang in there,you'll find one;)

[Art Eatman]

ROFL!

[ArMa]

well Art you remind me alot of my grandpa hes an okie, he was born in 1927 (stern believer in the '06 because of shooting BAR's and M1 garands all his life.. hes a Retired lieutenant commander on a destroyer), I live with him and as I was showing him this thread he agreed with everything that you said. He asked me to click on your profile and when I did he said "hey a 68 year old Texan cant be all bad, listen to him". Thats why I was anxious to see your reply.

[Zorro]

For 49 states of the USA the .30-06 is never a mistake.

Alaska is different.

[Art Eatman]

It's just a mix of genetics and environment, is all. Nature and nurture. Mommy gave me a Daisy Red Ryder when I was six, and Uncle Joe commented that "Well, there never was an Eatman much over half-civilized, at best," and proceeded to teach me why and how. :) The world probably oughta hate that man...

He gave me my first centerfire, a 1917 Enfield, and taught me about reloading. The rest, as they say, is history. When you're poor, Reloading is Good. :) Even now, with a bit fatter billfold, Reloading is Good.

The world is just a big old playground. The main responsibility is buying your own ticket to enter...

:D, Art

[Ullr]

hey a 68 year old Texan cant be all bad, listen to him
Better advice has scarcely been heard, 'cept coming from the aforementioned 68 year old Texan himself. :) I'm glad to hear about your forthcoming M70 -- the Super Grade is a pleasure, and the cartridge will keep you satisfied for a long, long time, methinks.

[Britt]

If you like the 710 and the way it feels, go for it. It's true that if you wear out the barrel then the gun is trash, but aside from benchrest or varmint shooters, very, very few barrels are ever worn out. The reports I've seen rate the 710 as an accurate, well priced rifle. My only problem with it would be the synthetic stock but that is personal preference only. That ugly gray synthetic stock will almost certainly outlast any of my walnut. Good luck, BD

[Britt]

Art, It's a bit off subject but I suspect that reloading is about the only option down in your part of the world anyway. I know I did when I lived down there. Still try to go down from time to time and visit. Great place, gorgeous country. BD

[ArMa]

well guys now all I gotta do is wait, yep 32 days 10 hours, 49 minutes and 25 seconds... :( I can already feel the checkered walnut in my hands... aww:o

[Art Eatman]

Britt, the only source of "ready-rolled" is the TrueValue in Alpine, and they're "retail plus 10%", seems like. I'll give them credit, though; they seem to have at least one of everything known to mankind. :)

Art

[ArMa]

yea well this is kinda off subject also but my grandpa just bought me a truck for my 16th birthday (april) a '94 F-150 5.0 with 100k miles, 4x4, automactic transmisson, camper shell, new tires/rims, and a bedliner. This is going to be my hunting/fishing truck for a long time. Im going to get a gun rack and/or a toolbox for all my goodies (like my model 70 :D). As with the '06 my grandpa is also a stern believer in 68 year old texans, and Ford's.

[Zorro]

NOT! a Good Idea!

Take it to LA or San Francisco and see how many times you get stopped per mile by the local police force.

NRA stickers not a good idea in certain places either.

[Bill St. Clair]

I considered a 710 before I bought my Savage 111, but one cycle of the bolt dissauded me. Yuck.

I agree that the factory Savage triggers aren't great. So I put a Sharpshooter Supply (http://www.varminthunters.com/sshooter/) trigger on it. Sweet.

[ArMa]

yea but it has a camper shell, so from behid you cant tell that theres a gun rack, also the guy already has a NRA sticker on it, so I have extras now. I live in a Northern California town called Redding and its a redneck valley, everyone here shoots, hunts or fishes... dont get me wrong I totally understand where your coming from. I was thinking and my new truck is a single cab so I cant put a gun rack on the back window, I guess I have to get a tool box.

[Britt]

Art, That True Value does indeed seem to have everything. As a matter of fact, I once found a soundtrack cd there that Universal Studios told me by phone didn't exist. Beyond that, the only ready-rolled I ever found were some left overs that Roger at the Lajitas Trading Post had. Odd stuff that I assume never sold. BD