[twoblink]

Someone asked about if it was a problem shooting 38's only out of a 357 (crud ring etc... addressed by some folks)

Someone said talked about reloading 38's in 357 cases and thus keeping only one case..

I'm just wondering if other people do this, and if you guys stick SWC's on 357's..

[braindead0]

Yup, do it all the time. Full wad-cutters as well. I usually start my .38 power .357 loads near the top of the .38 load range.

You'll probably get more responses to this thread in the handloading forums though.

[Master Blaster]

Thats what I do:

My recipie:

4.0 gr hodgdon titegroup 158lswc,

or

4.5 gr w231 158 lswc

OAL both rounds is 1.575

nice tight roll crimp.

My bullets are russell, but Penn bullet hardcasts work well also.

[FPrice]

When I was reloading for IPSC back in the 80's I used a mixture of round-nose bullets and semi-wadcutters in .357 cases. Do not remember what powder and levels I was using (pretty sure it was Unique tho) but I was able to get some pretty accurate loads. Used a good roll crimp like Master Blaster suggested. Still have some hanging around, I'll have to try them out.

[Hutch]

Useta do it all the time for my Contender, to shoot Hunter Pistol silhouettes. 7gr of Unique and a (nominal) 158gr SWC. They weighed closer to 152 gr, being as hard as they were. Shot great.

[Johnny Guest]

One of my favorite loads for .357 revolvers - - -
My Saeco mould drops the SWC at 162 gr. In Fed .357 cases, WSP primers and 7.0 gr. Unique, it yields near 1100 fps in a 4" Colt .357. Accurate, pleasant to shoot, and still a good deal warmer than a .38 +P.

Best,
Johnny

[Brian Williams]

yep
158 LSWC
6.5 gr 231
fed Primers
PMC cases

lots fun


13.5grs 2400
lotsa boom

[Standing Wolf]

I make very light loads in .357 magnum cases: 2.7 grains of Bullseye with Speer standard small pistol primers and Speer 148-grain hollow-based wadcutters. Those would be light even for .38 special rounds—but they're very accurate and easy on what's left of my wrist.

[YodaVader]

Have used the 158 lead SWC using mostly Unique and 2400 with pretty good results. Have never tried the light loads with the 148 WC. Will have to give it a try the next time I load 357 cases.

[444]

I have loaded and shot tens of thousands of SWC bullets out of .357 revolvers. That is pretty much the only load I shoot. Some of my .357s have never seen any other bullet.

I am another guy that shoots .357s out of his .357s and if I desire to shoot .38 Special, I shoot them out of a gun chambered for that caliber. I see no reason to shoot .38s out of a .357 if you handload.

[Blueduck]

I ended up with a mix of a lot of 38 special and 357 brass so I load both for my 357's. Started out with 158 grain Laser cast 158 grain SWC's for both and have found no need to change yet.

38 special cases 4 gr 231
357 cases 4.5 gr 231

For some reason I've found going all the way down to 4 gr in a 357 case does not give me the same accurracy at longer ranges. YMMV

[EJ]

In 357 brass--

3.5 Red dot

or 3.1 of 231

158 lead SWC

Works fine out of a Douglas Bbl to 50 yards--

[Jim March]

Only trick is, if you're going to drive any lead load up past 1,000fps, make it hardcast or barrel leading gets crazy.

Under that speed, you can go softer for expanding loads (hollowpoint or otherwise). That's what's kinda slick about semi-jacketed loads: the exposed soft lead can mushroom, yet the jacket controls leading at real magnum speeds. (But they expand too slow for use on human targets, they're mainly a deer load.)

[Hal]

Ya mean someone went and invented a different style bullet and didn't tell me about it ?!?!?
What'll they think of next,,,,steel that doesn't rust? :D

Here's an old wives tale I'd personally like to see die.
Only trick is, if you're going to drive any lead load up past 1,000fps, make it hardcast or barrel leading gets crazy.
Jimbo, Think about this subjectivly. If velocity causes leading,,,,then why is the leading always in the first 2/3 of the barrel, and never in the muzzle end?


(answer) It's gas cutting on the base of the bullet, not velocity, that causes leading.

Use the right powder/lube combo and you can drive even swaged lead bullets at > ~ 2000 fps with no leading. Rifle shooters do it all the time.

[braindead0]

Jimbo, Think about this subjectivly. If velocity causes leading,,,,then why is the leading always in the first 2/3 of the barrel, and never in the muzzle end?

But it's not always at the back. If you drive a bullet too fast, it'll lead near the muzzle. Too slow you lead near the rear.

I've found with hardcast that I need to drive them to 950fps to minimize leading (except with HBWC's which I can drive 600-700 no problem).

Oblution I think is the term.

[Kahr carrier]

Yep sure have.:D

[mikey357]

Favorite recipe...6.2 gr. Unique, HARD-cast 158-gr. SWC, lotsa' crimp...any ol' primer, mixed .357 Mag brass...shoots VERY well in my 19's and L-frames, cheap, too!!!....mikey357

[twoblink]

You guys make me want to do my own handloads :(

Hmm... all the cases the same, change the powder weight only... Simplified logistics.. wow...

[coonan357]

guns and ammo did an article on this a couple of years back , i did it for a while . but I haven't loaded up any hbwcs for a while .

[Hutch]

'Blink, come over to the dark side. Roll your own. You think your hobby takes a lotta time now? Just wait. It's worth it, tho'. As an added benefit, it P.O.'s all the right people.

[twoblink]

What? It "upsets" a lot of people? Like whom? The Klintons? Sarah and the Brady bunch?

Man, as a libertarian, now I gotta do it just to piss them off..

hehehe :D

So someone tell me about full wadcutters...

[braindead0]

What dya wanna know about WC's? I use them on occasion, these days pretty much only when introducing new people into shooting. I think my current HBWC load is 2.7gr bullseye.

[Quantrill]

TwoBlink
The full size wadcutter in the .38/.357 is the most accurate of all ammo (in the .38/.357). The factory wadcutter cartridge is the standard to which all other ammo must be compared (for accuracy). Handloaded wadcutters CAN run a close second to the factory fodder for accuracy IF careful attention is given the components and loading technique. There are a couple types of wadcutters such as hollow Base (HBWC). flat base, bevel base and double ended. It is controversial which is superior. The NRA ran a test several years ago on .38 rounds for factors effecting accuracy. Among those things rated was powder (brand and type). primer, case, crimp, seating depth, bullets and even splits on the brass. The hands down most critical item was the BULLET and wadcutters (properly swaged or cast) was the winner. Quantrill

[Nekron]

I think the work you're looking for is Obturation. And, you're right, it does make the difference between gas cutting (barrel leading) or not.

[Dr.Rob]

I don't (nor does my dad) keep .38 brass, we usually give it away, trade it etc and load all our stuff in .357 brass, from wadcutters to full house stuff. I forget our wadcutter recipie but its no soft-shooting target puncher, it's a serious load. Never had a problem with leading.

[twoblink]

I've never shot full WC's before, very curious about them, only shot SWC's.

Rolling your own and going from 38Spl loads to full house stuff all in 357 cases sounds awesome!

I love the logistics of revolvers..

[YodaVader]

Well , even though I have been reloading for close to 15 years I still have never loaded full target wadcutters in a 357 case. Until today! I am going to load some Bull-X 148 HBWC using Bullseye and/or Unique.

twoblink - reloading saves you you a bunch in ammo costs! If I did not reload there is no way I would even own guns like my 44 Mag and 357 Mag. I have not bought any factory 44 ammo since the late 80's!

[braindead0]

And how else can anything you need from pussycat target loads..and flamethrowing crazy loads...

About the only time I load WC's anymore is if I'm taking a complete newbie out. Much easier introducing them to shooting with a .22..and then move up to whimpy WC's... I have yet to scare any away.

Although some seem to really like the wrist breakers. A buddy was working up some really hot .44 loads for his Redhawk.. damn things felt like a .454 casull.. We let a friends wife try some (first time out) and she went bonkers, just loved it ;-)

[twoblink]

Actually, you all missed my question, my fault probably..

I meant, what does a Full WadCutter head look like? I know what a SWC looks like.

Also, I assume it leaves a nice Irish Springs fresh clean hole in the target?

One of the things about the bullets I used in my .40 is that it tears at the paper, and so when newbies shoot SWC's, they are excited to see perfectly clean cut holes, instead of torn holes..

Yes.. I use to do the same, introduce a newbie via a .22LR, then a 38Spl, then .40S&W... Then time for some rifles...!

[444]

A full wadcutter bullet looks like you took a cylinder and cut it into pieces. The bullet is flat on both ends. Normally they are seated pretty close to flush with the end of the case.

[twoblink]

Oh!

If they are flat, and thin (you are saying it looks like someone glued a penny in the front right? I've seen them before, never knew they were WC's..) How are they so accurate?

I would think that it would be hard to spin something flat and thin, and the frontal surface area vs. mass is so big, that wouldn't it "flip over" sideways and shoot out like a slit instead of an "O"??

[YodaVader]

"I meant, what does a Full WadCutter head look like? I know what a SWC looks like."


Here is a pic of some wadcutters along with a semi-wadcutter. The 1st is a 148 hollow base wadcutter in a 357 case , a view of the hollow base and a side view. The 2nd is a wadcutter with a flat base on both ends. The 3rd is a 158 SWC.

Hope this helps - they are definitely not flat and thin! There is quite a bit of bearing surface available in order to properly spin the bullet. The bullet sits deep in the case so there is less air space in the case. It is my understanding that the hollow base WC upon firing actually expands to fit the bore and helps to contribute to its accuracy.

[twoblink]

Would WC's loaded up to full house magnum powers be a good defensive round to use??

It would seem this would give it serious "energy dump" and would make a perfectly round hole in a victim..

Also, I assume expansion is not that big, but would still be decent?

[braindead0]

Kinda depends, I've heard tell of loading hollow-base wadcutters, backwards which makes for a lot of expansion.

But, I think most wadcutters are specifically cast (and lubricated) for relatively low-velocity target work. I'd think leading would be a major issue running a 148gr WC out to 1300fps or so..

[Poohgyrr]

That is one of the main advantages of .357 revolvers. Years ago, Dad & I were helping Mom with her shooting. I loaded up a case of wadcutter .38s and another of mild .357's (about the equivalent of +P .38's) and she shot them. That worked wonders for her. Eventually, a Mini-14 (which she handles better) replaced the midfarme revolver.

LSWCs, and wadcutters, are really useful..

It's been awhile, but I remember Skeeter or another well known shooter from his era writing that factory wadcutter full power ammo used to be offered by the factories. That is why our current wadcutters are often called "midrange" wadcutters. I imagine we could handload the same today.

[twoblink]

Anybody shoot full wadcutters out of rifles before? Do they tear up easily, or not really?

I think the 357/38 is just a beautiful combo. Mild as guacamole or as strong as Habaneros.

I think they are great for everything short of hunting game.

[charleym3]

My load has changed over the years. When I run out of V V N340 I'm going over to Titegroup. I use the starting load as a max load and sometimes work down from there. I end up with a light plesand to shoot load that keeps the chambers clean and the brass will last forever. A light roll crimp is all that's required.

I also have very heavy loads in a 160 gr bullet that I hunt deer with. Works very well at ranges < 150 yards.

On the other end is a load that fires a 135 gr lead slug at about 600 fps. Very light training round. Even my son who hates recoil shoots that one.