MD: Man Shot At By Paintball Gun Filled With Marbles


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Harry Tuttle
October 9, 2004, 12:53 AM
Man Shot At By Paintball Gun Filled With Marbles

Alleged Suspect Returns To Scene, Threatens Victim
http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/3789261/detail.html?subid=22100764&qs=1;bp=t
POSTED: 6:25 PM EDT October 6, 2004

LINTHICUM, Md. -- Attacked with marbles from a paintball gun, a Glen Burnie, Md., man returned to the crime scene Wednesday with WBAL-TV 11 News reporter Rob Roblin -- only to be attacked again.

Raymond Watts called 11 News following, what he called, a horrifying attack. And when one of WBAL-TV 11's crews arrived at the scene, they quickly became part of the story.

Video: Rob Roblin Reports: Unidentified Teen Shouts Expletives At Paintball-Shooting Victim
Slideshow: Teen Lashes Out At Paintball Shooting Victim

When Watts and Roblin returned to the scene of the shooting, a teenager who refused to identify himself yelled countless obscenities at Watts and Roblin, invoking a heated verbal fight. Watts said that unidentified teenager (pictured, right) was involved in the shooting.

"That's why you got done the way you did!" the teen said. "Turn these cameras off."

"You said last night, 'The reason we shot your car is because we thought you were one of the enemies coming over here to shoot us,' " Watts said to the teen.

When asked about the shooting, the teen said: "I don't know what you're talking about. Once these cameras go off, it's me and you baby, it's your turn. You thought last night was fun? Today will be a whole new picnic."

Around 3 a.m. Wednesday, Watts said his car was shot at. He described what he felt at the time.

"It sounded like a real gun. All I did was duck. And when you look at the car, it looks like real bullet holes through the windows, I didn't know what to expect," Watts said.

Anne Arundel County police told 11 News officers responded to the scene where they arrested and charged a 16-year-old with reckless endangerment and destruction of property. The teen -- who police said admitted to shooting at the vehicle using a paintball gun -- has since been released to the custody of his parents.

"The paintballs are popular with the kids today because of the competition that it involves. Unfortunately, they've taken it to another level and used it as a weapons, which we don't have an experience with -- paintballs used as a weapon. This is the first," Anne Arundel County Police Lt. Edward Bergin said.

Police recovered two paintball guns at the scene, one of which was loaded with marbles, Roblin reported.

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nico
October 9, 2004, 01:17 AM
great, now the beurocrats will want my real guns AND my paintball gun. It's too bad the victim didn't have CCW. Maybe the kid would have acted differently if he thought there was a potential for the man fighting back.

Sunray
October 9, 2004, 01:31 AM
I think I missed something. Paint ball guns are CO2 powdered unless I'm very confused. Marbles are glass or plastic. The paint ball guns I saw when they were new were just modified Crossman CO2 guns. Told the guy that the sights were crap. Can a paintball gun even launch a marble?

cracked butt
October 9, 2004, 01:39 AM
Paintguns shoot a dye filled ball that is the size of a large marble, with considerable force.

IIRC some police departments are trying out paintbal markers shooting balls filled with a pepper agent and/or solid glass marbles as less-than-lethal weapons.

Harry Tuttle
October 9, 2004, 01:42 AM
PB markers are 68 caliber and fire a paintball at ~300 fps

mine will do 15 rounds a second

Bigjake
October 9, 2004, 01:46 AM
harry is correct. High preformance paint hoses rock. it wouldnt be all that hard to get a little 30 buck POS from wally world and load it up with marbles. it would pry tear the crap outa the gun though

nico
October 9, 2004, 01:48 AM
some paintball guns are CO2 powered, but most of them use compressed air now. Like Harry said, they shoot a .68 caliber ball that feels kinda like soft plastic on the outside and is a gel on the inside. .68" would be a very big marble and I'd think the gun might have trouble shooting a piece of glass that size anyway since it'd be significantly heavier than a paintball. It seems kinda far fetched that a paintball gun could be used to fire a single marble, let alone several in succession.

IMtheNRA
October 9, 2004, 02:00 AM
Hello Harry, what is a "PB marker"?

9mmepiphany
October 9, 2004, 02:17 AM
PB marker is the original designation for what we now refer to as paintball guns

they were designed to mark livestock out of a herd

Warbow
October 9, 2004, 02:48 AM
Yes, a paintball gun can launch a marble. My local PD uses one to shoot OC powder balls, and they also have special balls made of glass and other hard material for breaking windows, etc.

When asked about the shooting, the teen said: "I don't know what you're talking about. Once these cameras go off, it's me and you baby, it's your turn. You thought last night was fun? Today will be a whole new picnic."

So, he says he doesn't know anything about the attack and then he directly references said attack in his next sentence in a first-person sense. Smart one. :rolleyes:

buttrap
October 9, 2004, 02:52 AM
Last I knew there was no law against pulling out a 9mm a drilling the little jerks if they shoot at you...............

ilcylic
October 9, 2004, 03:16 AM
Also, paintball guns are adjustable. You can turn up the amount of airflow. My cousin (Grizzly, of Gramps and Grizzly Paintball) once demonstrated putting paintballs through 3/8ths inch plywood at about 900 fps. Admittedly, most of the paintballs broke in the barrel, but the ones that didn't punched a hole through the wood. I imagine you could throw marbles fast enough to sting well.

-Ogre

Buck Snort
October 9, 2004, 03:54 AM
Well, when yer just 16 sometimes yer brain ain't work'n jus' right!! DUH!!

Norton
October 9, 2004, 06:35 AM
This is my old stomping grounds and not far from where Spot77 lives now.

Those little $%^&s better watch out who they are shooting those things at or they are going to get an education in the differences between PB markers and real firearms.

Amish_Bill
October 9, 2004, 10:00 AM
This is what you get when kids are't 'properly' taught about respect and responsibility.

Ed Ely
October 9, 2004, 10:06 AM
First hand observation only yesterday, happened to be at the Creek
with my son-in-law enjoying the hell out of the show. What I saw in
the vendors booths scared the sh*t out of me. Many, many paintball
vendors. Guys these PB guns can cause serious damage, and all the
teeners who could afford them were running around showing them off.

I saw one demo of full auto PB and those suckers ripped. And guess
what, one of the vendors had some marbles which he used to show
"the real kick a*s potential" of the PB. Fellow forum members, the first
thought out of my pea brain was and I turned to my SIL and said "
well the anti's are sure going to have a field day with this new legal
automated weapon".

I am so sad to hear that my words have come true to soon. Guys,
these type of weapons, they surely are not toys, and when used
by evil doer's as described in the above post, we gunners are in deep
doo. The anti's prayers have been answered.

gundam007
October 9, 2004, 10:11 AM
I had an experience with a moron with a paintball marker (paintballers prefer to call them markers so some people dont think they go around shooting eachother with real guns) before. The idiot didnt chrono it at the field, and was shooting about 400 fps. I am sure of this because when we were playing airball (paintball with inflatable cover), his hits were way louder than any other persons. I got hit in the arm which developed into a rather nasty welt. After the game, I just went up to him, and started yelling at him, to which he said he didnt know it was so fast. The kid was like 10 and I can bet he either just got the marker from mommy and daddy, or he liked to shoot peoples' property with it. SHEESH, when will people learn to use projectile launchers responsibly?
P.S. Paintball markers are not weapons. When used responsibly and with safety equipment, no players will be harmed. The worst that will happen is a small welt and some stinging. When an idiot gets behind one is when stuff happens.

Harry Tuttle
October 9, 2004, 10:35 AM
one of the noobie problems with markers is that CO2 runs at a higher pressure as the ambient temp goes up

when the tanks are filled they can frost over

leave that tank in the sun and it will expand and vent the burst disk

a CO2 marker chronographed in the morning can easily be hot an hour later

CannibalCrowley
October 9, 2004, 10:43 AM
Anne Arundel County police told 11 News officers responded to the scene where they arrested and charged a 16-year-old with reckless endangerment and destruction of property. The teen -- who police said admitted to shooting at the vehicle using a paintball gun -- has since been released to the custody of his parents. I sure hope they up the charges. At the very least add a charge of assault, although I believe a decent prosecuter could get attempted murder to stick.

armoredman
October 9, 2004, 10:49 AM
We use a pepperball gun, and it works well when used.
I have a friend who ran steelies through his paintball gun, and said it was inaccurate, but devastating. If shot at by one of these things, I am going to assume whoever is using a suppressed friearm. Unfortunately, here are the headlines...
1) He wins
"Tragic accident involving youngster and toy leaves one dead."
2) I win
" Youth dies, slain by gun weilding thug, attacking him for his toy."

fistful
October 9, 2004, 11:23 AM
Any violent crime not involving a firearm only demonstrates the silliness of regulating firearms more harshly than other weapons, even if the weapon is just a toy.

Edmond
October 9, 2004, 11:25 AM
The messed up thing about this is that I bet if the teen had encountered someone who had the means to defend themself, the person defending themself would've been charged with something while the teen would've played innocent in court.

shooter1
October 9, 2004, 11:25 AM
________________________________________________________
When used responsibly and with safety equipment, no players will be harmed.
_________________________________________________________

Same applies to firearms.
str1

Spot77
October 9, 2004, 11:38 AM
Just great.

I have a paintball field on private land in LINTHICUM, right where this crap happened.

We've been playnig there for 6 years now....every other Sunday throughout the winter....and not once have we been bothered.

And to think.....10 to 16 grown men all wearing camo carrying what must look like an arsenal to passers-by

Standing Wolf
October 9, 2004, 02:59 PM
The teen -- who police said admitted to shooting at the vehicle using a paintball gun -- has since been released to the custody of his parents.

I think I've just spotted the problem.

likestoshoot
October 9, 2004, 08:53 PM
I may be 15, But I think you hit the nail on the head, Standing Wolf.
Completely sane people acting stupid just really p@%#es me off.:cuss: Assuming he was completely sane.;)

Big Country

mrapathy2000
October 10, 2004, 02:08 AM
the Term Paintball Marker also applies to Lumber industry. back in early days IIRC

paintball guns can be screwed with to fire the projectile faster. paintballs are only meant to fly 260-320 most fields of play prefer 280-300fps much higher and it will leave bruises and welts. they can damage soft tissue eyes,ears,nut sack,testicles you dont want them to take a paintball pointblank.

could of maybe have been worse. ball bearings:eek:. jack the air up and you got a good weapon could really hurt someone good.

chaim
October 10, 2004, 10:20 AM
Last I knew there was no law against pulling out a 9mm a drilling the little jerks if they shoot at you...............

There are many laws against pulling out a 9mm and "drilling the little jerks." One, this is MD so you can't carry- criminal charges if you have a 9mm with you to pull out (illegal carry, brandishing, assault, etc). Two, if you are a member of the priviliged class that is allowed a CCW (police, some security company employees, friends of important people, and business owners who deal in large amounts of cash, guns or jewelry) you have the "duty" to retreat if you aren't at home- I think you'd have trouble proving you couldn't find a safe place to hide from a paintball gun. Last, no prosecutor anywhere (and especially not in MD) is going to see that paintball gun as a deadly weapon and the threat against you as life or death- attempted or outright murder charges when you escalate to deady force and shoot the kid.

You know what they say about if you only have a hammer everything starts to look like a nail. If facing this you need a more creative solution or you will be going to jail for a long time.

Vitamin G
October 10, 2004, 03:09 PM
I've played paintball roughly eight years. Four years competatively in tournaments, ranging from local tournaments, to the PSP, to the NPPL.

I would, based on my experience with paintball, return fire if fired upon by a paintball gun outside of a paintball field if i felt that I was in danger, and it wasn't some punk just trying to scare me. I will not lose my eyesight, or life, on a prank. I feel I have the knowledge and experience that I could defend myself in court, even more so with an experienced lawyer.


1) 300fps is the maximum WORLDWIDE accepted speed for safety. Many (all) guns can fire faster if you give it higher gas pressure, higher spring pressure, higher (slower) valve setting, etc.
(As a side note, I call shenanigans on whoever said they got a paintball up to 900fps. I just don't think its possible to get one past 450-500 unless... Well I don't even know how, nor will i pretend to. They just aren't made for it)

2) 300fps is the standard for safety, GIVEN THAT participants are wearing proper safety equipment, which I would not be wearing, leaving my tender, loving eyes exposed to the potential (ie : no guarantee of safety during retreat, and potential for severe physical damage, such as losing my eye)
of being destroyed.

3) Paintballs can be frozen. It leaves a small welt when it hits you if safety precautions are taken.
3a) I have no guarantee it is not frozen\altered\actually a "standard" weight paintball
3b) I have no mask, protecting my face/neck/temple/ears.

4) If the little bugger is doing it to me, he's probably going to do it to someone else. (In theory, I suppose I could come to the aid of someone
else who is being fired upon by paintball guns, seeing that PA state law says I can use force to defend someone else, if I would be justified in using it, if I was that person who I am defending)

Pick me apart, I'll only end up smarter if I get feedback...

SodiumBenzoate
October 10, 2004, 04:41 PM
In states where you do not have a "retreat obligation", it would probably be justified, because if you are hit the eye with a paintball, even one moving below 300fps, it'll destroy your vision, at the very least.

ny32182
October 10, 2004, 04:46 PM
If you murder a kid who is shooting random paintballs at you, you will go to jail for a long time and deservedly so. Period.

A paintball gun is not a lethal weapon, never has been, never will be. I played paintball several times a month for years and can count the number of times I've seen a paintball break the skin on one hand.

9mm is not a proper response to a paintball, and the prosecuting attorney would have an absolute field day... and Mr. 9mm would deserve what was coming to him.

Mr. Clark
October 10, 2004, 05:23 PM
If you murder a kid who is shooting random paintballs at you, you will go to jail for a long time and deservedly so. Period.

They were using marbles, not paint balls.

In most states the standard for use of deadly force is that the person had to believe he was in danger of suffering grievous bodily injury or death. If it turns out that he wasn't (debatable in this case, he very well could have been) the standard then becomes would a reasonable person (average, reasonable person on the street, not a firearms expert or avid paint baller)believe this.

If he was shot with something that looks like a gun, and is hit with something coming from that gun causing the amount of pain a marble would obviously cause, or saw the effects of the marble striking nearby buildings, cars, or glass, there is nothing unreasonable in thinking you are being shot at and returning fire.

No one caught in this situation who returned fire would deserve to go to jail for any amount of time.

CannibalCrowley
October 10, 2004, 05:30 PM
ttbadboy A paintball gun is not a lethal weapon, never has been, never will be. Did you even read the article? Anything that punches holes through auto glass can be lethal.

Firethorn
October 10, 2004, 06:49 PM
ttbadboy,

If you don't think that a paintball marker can't kill or injure.

Lewis & Clark's Air Rifle (http://www4.vmi.edu/museum/air_rifle.html)

An air rifle used for hunting large game.

With some modifications, I can see a "paintball" gun being quite deadly. All you'd have to do would be reinforce some of the system for higher air pressures, maybe add a longer barrel.

Paintballs officially top out around 300 fps, real handgun rounds start around 900.

It seems to me that with some work, like boosting the pressure,flow, and duration of the air burst, as well as lengthing the barrel could make a gun that would be just as deadly as a handgun.

Bridger
October 10, 2004, 09:53 PM
I play paintball too. I figured something like this would happen soon.

I started playing 5 years ago, at age 15. These days I've played on fields that were half 10 year olds. A lot of kids are getting into it now, and they are treating the paintball guns as toys, they are unsafe with them, they shoot at people without eye protection, they point them at each other and go "don't worry, it's not loaded", and so on. And they are always dry-firing with air, which gets pretty annoying after a while.

Another point: I do believe there was an incident where a shooter returned fire and killed someone shooting at them with paintballs. They didn't go to prison.

That was for paintballs too, ball bearings and marbles is a whole other level, and with the velocity bumped up, they are definately dangerous weapons. I have seen people go dizzy from a normal shot to the head, hell, I have gone dizzy once from a shot that went between my mask and head and caught me behind the ear.

Marbles from a paintball gun, especially at higher velocity, could potentially kill or knock unconscious, and that just might lead to death.

That kid also shouldn't have been released to his parents, that's assault with a (deadly) weapon, not "boys will be boys".

Ryder
October 10, 2004, 10:43 PM
These are defined as a firearm in my state. Obvious conclusions can be drawn from that but I think it's a good thing. They're far from toys.

--

28.421. Firearms; definitions.
Sec.1. As used in this act:
(a) “Firearm” means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, B.B.s not exceeding .177 caliber.

countertop
October 10, 2004, 11:11 PM
Anne Arundel County police told 11 News officers responded to the scene where they arrested and charged a 16-year-old with reckless endangerment and destruction of property. The teen -- who police said admitted to shooting at the vehicle using a paintball gun -- has since been released to the custody of his parents.

Thats the problem with Maryland.

They enact overbroad laws, then when some idiot does something dumb, they release him to his parents.

Across the river in Virginia, he'd be locked up on attempted homocide charges, if not worse

Logan5
October 10, 2004, 11:37 PM
I have trouble figuring out how they get this to work. I tried it in 1989 with my brand spanking new Tippman SL-68, and both marbles and ball bearings went about 12 feet forward and 2 feet left before they hit the ground. I thought paintballs go like they do because they weigh next to nothing, and are a relatively close fit to the bore? I sometimes use marbles in my slingshot, and they are not close to .68 or .62 caliber... Was there some radical new innovation in the paintball world to make this work? I remember we tried it with a Splatmaster, and a Brass Eagle Barracuda, and then and SL-68 II, and it just wouldn't work...
And isn't there still a huge reward for paintball gun vandals, sponsored by all those people who put on the tournaments?

Amish_Bill
October 10, 2004, 11:58 PM
Not regly marbles.. you probably need the bigger shooter marbles.

iiibdsiil
October 11, 2004, 12:19 AM
I heard about gobstoppers (candy) being used in paint ball guns too. Not sure how true it is, but I thought it was pretty funny.

Firethorn
October 11, 2004, 12:31 AM
Doing some quick research, apparently there are different sizes of paintballs, thus different sized barrels are available. Maybe the kid found a good fit with some overlarge marbles and a smaller barrel.

Archangel
October 11, 2004, 08:46 AM
I've seen, in some mail order cataloge or other, .68 caliber solid hard plastic balls intended for firing from a paintball marker. Could be that his "marbles" were something like that.

Harry Tuttle
October 11, 2004, 09:33 AM
the different sized pb barrels are only larger by a couple of thousandths

.680, .684, .686, .688, .690, .692

part of the problems is the walmart markers
expect the new 189 dollar cockers this xmas to be abused

Andrew Rothman
October 11, 2004, 12:47 PM
For anyone good at physics...

The specific density of window glass is 2.579 -- about two and a half times as dense as water.

I think we can assume that a paintball is slightly less dense than water: The paint is probably about the same, and the shell is definitely lighter,

So let's say that a marble weighs 3x as much as a paint ball of the same diameter.

Can't we, then, conclude that it'll fly at 1/3 the speed out of the same gun?

Now that I think about it, the weight of the projectile shouldn't matter -- only the rigidity of the projectile. A paint ball dissipates some of its force by breaking. A marble probably wouldn't.

Other than that, it ought to act about the same, right?

nomadboi
October 11, 2004, 01:59 PM
In the film biz, when the stunts crew needs to show bullet holes being shot in a car window while someone is inside it, they often use something much like this- a compressed air gun shooting marbles.

ceetee
October 11, 2004, 09:29 PM
If I'm driving along, merrily mindng my own business, and something (or things) that look suspiciously like bullet holes start appearing through my window glass, then I'll either:

1. Drive off at the highest rate of speed I can safely muster whilst simultaneously crouching at or below dashboard level,

2. Drive directly at the source of the bullet holes, hoping that the shooter will NOT be able to shoot from directly underneath my car,

or

3. Something else. Depending on situational logistics, tactical appearances, etc.

I'll not stick around, trying to identify whether the source of the bullet holes is in fact a firearm, or merely "a toy"...

SOT_II
October 11, 2004, 10:57 PM
Full auto paintball gun

http://home.cogeco.ca/~oake2/paintball.wmv

Harry Tuttle
October 12, 2004, 02:10 PM
thats a mod-ed spyder

heres a semi auto viking:
http://www.flagpull.com/AKA/Leopard%20in%20Action.mov

more moovies:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=189251

JPL
October 12, 2004, 02:38 PM
A couple of years ago I took my oldest paintballing, and one of the little bastards who was also there shot him with a FROZEN paintball.

The kid had his gun loaded with them.

Even though my son was wearing heavy clothes, it still cracked two of his ribs and caused SEVERE deep bruising because it was such a close shot.

There was some question for a bit whether the sac laying over the lungs was lacerated or not.

The boy, 14 or so, was arrested and charged with assault, but the judge let him off with a slap on the wrist.

His father thought he could laugh it off as a "boys will be boys" kind of thing.

He didn't even seem to care that it's very likely that a frozen paint ball would penetrate the goggles that most of these kids wear, or that a shot to an unprotected part of the head could kill someone.

When I told him I expected him to pony up for the medical bills he got really indignant and defensive, so I ended up suing to recover the medical expenses, which ran about $8,000 by the time all was said and done.

Warbow
October 13, 2004, 12:24 AM
Ug, stupid kid. I hope you won that lawsuit, JPL.

JPL
October 13, 2004, 01:11 AM
Oh yeah, I got the money owed to me.

He actually settled and wrote me a check shortly after the suit was filed.

His son was also ejected from the paint ball facility for life.

jefnvk
October 13, 2004, 04:25 PM
I once did some experimenting to see how fast I could get a PB flying, out of a cheaper $30 gun. I had it near 500fps before the bolt actually blew out of the gun. I have no doubt that a marbel shot out of it could be deadly.

I also have a full auto PB gun. Cost me $80, bought it right over EBAY. That thing is just as fun, and much cheaper, than a traditional firearm. BUT, I would never shoot it at anyone not playing, nor point it at anyone I wasn;t trying to shoot. I follow the four rules even with a PB gun, and have never had any problems.

I think the biggest problem is kids that don't have real firearms. They don;t understand the problems that they can cause, and being taught that it is acceptable to point a PB gun at people, I think they are more apt to cause the problems.

ilcylic
October 13, 2004, 05:03 PM
Vitamin G: I didn't do the modification myself, it was my cousin Mike, who is one of the original inventors of Constant Air.

Still I was 10 or so, so I might well be misremembering the spec. But I'm dead certain I saw that regular, non-frozen, plain jane paintball rip through a piece of plywood.

Ow. :)

-Ogre

Spot77
October 13, 2004, 06:14 PM
Been playing for years now.

My original Tippmann 98 would ALMOST go through a piece of unsupported 1/2 inch drywall.

NOT something you want to get hit with while unprotected, or at close range.

Period.

Drjones
October 13, 2004, 07:46 PM
If you murder a kid who is shooting random paintballs at you, you will go to jail for a long time and deservedly so. Period.



I am VERY interested to see if your opinion remains the same after you get your eye destroyed by an innocent "kid shooting random paintballs at you."

Spot77
October 13, 2004, 08:32 PM
Sorry, this quote (don't know who it originally belongs to) struck me as odd:

who is shooting random paintballs at you


Shooting RANDOM paintballs AT you?


Seems to me that there's nothing "random" about shooting anything AT me.

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