91\30 Problem


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Nick1911
October 10, 2004, 01:19 AM
Hey all, I just picked up a Russian mosin-nagant 91\30 today - made in Tula in 1939. Got to say it's a really nice rifle - while not new ( been issued ) it's in great shape. So naturally I took it home and gave it a once over to get most of the cosmoline off and the bore clear. Didn't notice anything wrong with the rifle while cleaning it - very smooth action, bolt locks in 'just right'.

Then I went out to fire it with some old surplus ammo; and for the life of me I couldn't get it to chamber the first round. The bolt would go all the way forward and some of the way down but wouldn't budge past 45 degrees. So I ejected that round and chambered the next one - it chambered fine. I fired it and it extracted fine. The fired casing looked ok, no bulging, no cracks. I found that out of the 10 rounds I had with me only 2 would chamber.

I'm going to do a much better detailed cleaning tomorrow and see if that will resolve anything... I'm thinking that it's got just a tad too tight of head spacing combined with poor ammo quality - so I don't know. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

Nick Leone

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jon1996
October 10, 2004, 01:48 AM
Nick,
This is a common problem with the mosins and using the surplus ammo, The ammo is lacquer coated and that is what makes them chamber hard, most of the time it is hard to extract, but I have two rifles that are hard to chamber, heres what to do,

Take a bore brush for a 12ga shotgun, take a piece of cleaning rod, put the brush on the rod, and chuck the rod in a drill, use some brake cleaner or bore cleaner, and take the bolt out of the rifle, and use the bore brush in the drill to clean out the chamber, just keep spraying bore cleaner into the chamber while you are turning the brush, you dont have to go fast just a steady speed, about 50-100 rpms is enough, I did all my mosins like this and it helped them trmendously, what it is is a thin film of cosmoline and lacquer inside the chamber, If it is still hard to operate like this, check your extractor, it could be bent or at the wrong angle,
I hope this helps you,
later,
jon

WhoKnowsWho
October 10, 2004, 06:55 AM
and chuck the rod in a drill

I knew I was keeping my broken cleaning rod for a reason, thanks for reminding me! Now I need to go get a 12 gauge bore brush...

straightShot
October 10, 2004, 10:56 AM
Did you check the headspace with some headspace gauges?

armoredman
October 10, 2004, 11:18 AM
http://7.62x54r.net/
http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/

Plenty o' Mosin info.

NavajoNPaleFace
October 10, 2004, 11:37 AM
Some great suggestions thus far.

One more I might offer is to closely check the area of the chamber where the rim seats ( I refer to it as a chamber rim recess).

I've owned several M/Ns over the years and I have found that old cosmoline and crud can get into this chamber recess and it doesn't take much to be a pain in the butt.

Anyone who reloads can confirm that a mere minute fraction of an inch can mean the difference between a fulled seated round and a closed bolt and one that won't or one that is difficult to close.

It doesn't take very much of the crud in the rim recess to cause that fraction of an inch.

Even with the cleaning described by others may not get all of the build-up on the first try. But, subsequent cleanings seem to do the trick. I've seen a few of mine take many subsequent cleanings to finally get it where I wanted it.

Nick1911
October 10, 2004, 03:39 PM
Alrighty I got it going pretty good - all the rounds will chamber and fire but some are real tight still. I started by cleaning a lot (involved a power drill :uhoh: ) It didn't change anything - and I really scrubbed on it.

So I rigged up a jig based on a cleaning rod in the drill with the base part of a round on the end sandwiched in-between the end and a cleaning jag. I put some valve grinding compound on the rim and ran it in the chamber working over the cartridge mating face ( which wasn't very consistent - looked almost pitted )

After doing that for a while I cleaned it again really good - that face was\is nice and shiny - almost a mirror finish. And now it chambers most rounds without much trouble - however this is really shady ammo too - I need to get some wolf or something...


Thanks,

Nick

George S.
October 10, 2004, 03:51 PM
Years and years of use of steel-cased milsurp ammo that was lacquer coated will take some time to clean out. I've used the drill trick for a total of over 15 minutes now and some of my Czech silver-tip ammo will still cause the case to stick to where I cannot pull back on the bolt. I have to use a rubber hammer to tap the bolt handle back to eject a round. Even though the chamber appears shiny, it may be that you have just smoothed out the old lacquer and made it shiny.

You might want to do some more cleaning after you fire a few rounds so that the chamber is warm to hot. I'm going to try some lacquer thinner on a patch over the brush to see if that will help loosen the buildup.

What's funny with my 1931 Izzy 91/30 is that I have no trouble at all chambering a round either as a single round or from the mag well. It's just the ejection part that is hard to do. Every type of ammo I have tried (Russian, Albanian, Czech or even brass-cased Wolf) chambers easily.

M2HMGHB
October 10, 2004, 11:05 PM
you might have a problem with the extractor or the interuptor ejector. I've had to replace one interupter ejector, they're really fun to do.

Jim K
October 11, 2004, 10:49 PM
Hi, Nick,

I would think that the rifle has a mismatched bolt with tight headspace, so what you did was simply increase the headspace to where the rounds chamber OK. With any rimmed round, headspace is the room allowed for the rim, not the distance to a point on the shoulder as it is with rimless rounds. It sounds like the problem is fixed.

Jim

GD
October 11, 2004, 11:45 PM
Sounds like Albanian ammo. The rim thickness varies quite a bit with this ammo. However, it is pretty accurate ammo in the right rifle. I have a Soviet M91/30 that takes this stuff easily and a Finn that is finicky with it. Try some other ammo and see what happens.

Nick1911
October 12, 2004, 12:24 AM
Yea I'm going to see if I can scrounge some Wolf or something tomorrow - I've noticed that this ammo has quite a crown on the primer side - that and on some there's some type of lacquer dripped on them...

I would think that the rifle has a mismatched bolt with tight headspace, so what you did was simply increase the headspace to where the rounds chamber OK. With any rimmed round, headspace is the room allowed for the rim, not the distance to a point on the shoulder as it is with rimless rounds.

That was my plan - to bump out the headspace just a tad since some rounds would chamber I figured it couldn't be off more then a few thousandths.

I'll let ya know what different ammo does.

Thanks,

Nick

jefnvk
October 12, 2004, 02:56 AM
What's funny with my 1931 Izzy 91/30 is that I have no trouble at all chambering a round either as a single round or from the mag well. It's just the ejection part that is hard to do. Every type of ammo I have tried (Russian, Albanian, Czech or even brass-cased Wolf) chambers easily.

I have a '38 Tula, and my friend has a M38 that does the exact same thing. Np problem chambering, but you have to smack it to extract.

Cosmoline
October 12, 2004, 02:43 PM
I'd try different ammo before messing with changing the headspace. The Albanian stuff was made by some very angry men with ball-peen hammers.

Nick1911
October 12, 2004, 04:40 PM
Alrighty I got some new manufacture russian hunting rounds ( no brand listed) and they chamber just fine... Guess it was crappy ammo after all. Oh well, the gun wasn't damaged any.

Nick

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