[JimJD]

Hi everyone,

I've been thinking about yet another gun purchase. :)
This time, I'm looking at Mak's. I do want one chambered in 9x18 Mak, and have seen some Bulgarian versions around from time to time. I want it for all of the usual reasons. Especially since I seem to have this thing for Russian/com-block weapons. Love the American machines too.
So... I went to the range yesterday and noticed something in the case in the pro shop. It was a Russian Mak, in .380. Seems to be a used piece. Did'nt get a chance to have them open the case and ask questions though. Externally, it looked good. They want $155.00.

What say You fellow High Roaders?

I'm still learning about these pistols and was wondering... If I want extra mags, Do I have to get ones that are made for the .380 chambering? Or would the standard 9x18 ones work? Is there anything good or bad that I should know about the .380 versions?
Before I take Myself over to Makarov.com, I wanted to check with all of You here first.
Thanks! :D

[Zundfolge]

The .380 and 9x18 magazines are the same so thats not an issue.

The .380 can be converted to 9x18 with a simple barrel change (makarov.com has the goodies).

$155 for a Russian Commercial Mak is not a bad price. If you find a Russian Military Mak for that cheap then BUY IT and run away before the seller realises what he's done (of course it will be a 9x18).

I'd recommend you keep looking for a Bulgarian in 9x18 if you want to do stuff like change out the sights with Novak low profile and such (the adjustable sights on the Russian commercial Maks aren't as easy to replace and I wouldn't recommend hacking up an East German).


I love my Mak and used to carry it daily ... they are dependable, accurate and downright fun guns in either caliber.

[JimJD]

Great, thanks for the info Zundfolge. :D

[SteelyDan]

In my humble opinion, the 9x18 is on the low end of the desirable power scale, so I'd be reluctant to drop down even further to a .380. You can get a Bulgy 9x18 at AIM for $140 (plus shipping and transfer fee, but without tax), and it comes with holster, 2 mags, extra grips, and they're usually in very good condition:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Like_New_Bulgarian_Makarov.html

[lee n. field]

Russian commercial Mak. It has an adjustable sight, right? They use the same magazines. .380 is just a little looser in there.

$155, go for it.

[Nickotym]

www.gunboards.com has a Makarov forum about 2/3rds the way down the list of message boards. The guys over there are very knowledgable.

[JimJD]

You can get a Bulgy 9x18 at AIM for $140 (plus shipping and transfer fee, but without tax), and it comes with holster, 2 mags, extra grips, and they're usually in very good condition:

I'd love to get that and some other items from AIM, but I have not found a FFL around Me who will do it.
:(

[wally]

I'd love to get that and some other items from AIM, but I have not found a FFL around Me who will do it

Go to www.shotgunnews.com and use their FFL locator tool. Should find someone who'll do the transfer for $10-25.

--wally.

[M2 Carbine]

I ran some (nondestructive) tests on a new Makarov last week trying to get the gun to fail.
I ran out of ways to punish the gun.

Mud, freezing, limp wristing, etc.

I've had 2 jams in 700 rounds that I've found were caused by an old magazine.

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=294814

[JimJD]

Go to www.shotgunnews.com and use their FFL locator tool. Should find someone who'll do the transfer for $10-25.

Thanks for the heads up on that one.
There is one FFL listed in My area, I have to give them a call.
I have to give the store/range a call, see if they still have it.

[Gary G23]

http://www.dansammo.com
Dan has some NICE Maks.
I would stay away from the 380 for the reasons SteelyDan mentioned.

[joe sixpack]

M2 Carbine - thanks for posting your Mak' stress test.

[444]

That sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
I own a RUssian commercial Mak and it has given me no problems although I admit that I don't shoot it very often and only have a few hundred rounds through it. I have read on-line that the commercial adjustable sights are fragile: I don't know. Mine don't LOOK fragile. They look pretty much like any other adjustable sight. This is another one of these internet things where I have read people saying they are fragile, but never read a post where someone said, MINE actually broke. I am not saying it isn't true, I have just never read of an actual case where it happened.
As far as the chambering, the .380 has some advantages over the 9x18. I personally don't carry a Mak for personal protection, mine are just shooters. As I have said in many of the "stopping power" threads, I think a lot of this stuff is just guilding the lilly. The difference between the two cartridges on the street isn't enough to worry about. On paper, there are differences, but the differences are so slight as to be meaningless from a practical standpoint. Either cartridge is way down on the list of what I would consider acceptable for a first line defensive pistol, so to me, I would like the .380 just because it is a more common cartridge in this country: ahough 9x18 certainly isn't a rareity.

[johnc522]

I recently moved to Fairbanks AK to Cincinnati, and some friends invited me out to a machine gun shoot recently. I asked where was a good place to get 9 mm and .223 ammo, and they suggested AIM Surplus in Middletown. Neat coincidence, I had looked at their web site often from Alaska, never connecting that their base was in Middletown, only like 25 miles from where I now live. I loaded up on ammo, and saw that they had the Makarovs for $139.95, in very good condition. It looks like a great small gun, now I am out some serious $$. Very friendly place. They also have some CZ 52s coming in soon, good condition for $98.....
this is going to get expensive, I can see.

[M2 Carbine]

JimJD,

As for the 380 or 9x18 question.
I have both 380 (Colt and Kel Tec) and 9x18 so I'm not putting down the 380,
but get a 9x18.

(PERSONALLY I would buy that 380 because they are hard to find and I already have 13, 9x18 Maks. But if you plan on only owning ONE Mak, IMO it should be the 9x18)

The 9x18 Mak will handle a good range of ammo from factory 95 grain JRN 1,000 fps loads,
to light 95 grain lead target loads, (the most accurate)
to 120 grain JHP 1,000 fps loads,
to 95 JHP 1,150 fps hot reloads.

The factory 17 pound recoil spring should be replaced with a 21 pound (or 19 pound) spring when shooting anything over the 95-100 grain factory load.


BTW, I've run out of ways to get the Mak to malfunction so if anyone has any (nondestructive) tests they would like to see tried let me know.

I decided if this didn't stop the Mak, nothing would.:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Makfiredwithmud.jpg

[halvey]

I disagree that 9x18 is better than the .380. If it is, its only slightly better. Performance wise, they are very close.

I've personally had more problems with the Mak and 9x18 than my Kel Tec and .380 combo.

[denfoote]

Bigger bullet, more powder, more velocity??
Heck yeah, it's better!!
My Kel-Tec lies disabled with assembly pin problems!!
The mak is a Soviet energizer bunny!!! :D

[halvey]

Ok, so you can get 1mm more powder in there. I shoot 124 gr's out of my .380 just fine.

And the Mak is 25 oz. 1oz heavier than my .45.

Don't get me wrong. The Mak's are nice and a great deal for the money. But why carry a 25 oz gun in a marginal caliber when you can carry a .45.

As far as the Kel Tec. I've got 100's of rounds through mine with no fluff and buff and no other problems. I carried the thing daily all summer without so much as wiping it off. As a matter of fact, when I finally practiced with it a couple weeks back, where were grains of sand in the action and trigger. I shot a mag just to see if it'd function, and it went bang every single time. I still haven't taken it down to clean it, just worked some oil into the action and it still fires just fine.

I use over max published loads just fine and the pin does not back out. I bought one right when they were released too.

Again, the Mak is fine, but it is what it is.:)

[mfree]

Find a .45 for less than $200 that runs like a clock out of the box and will continue to do so for decades...

[JimJD]

Wow! That's a lot of mud and gunk on that Mak!
Thanks a bunch for the info everyone. :D

Now... down to business... I'm going to go to the range/store tomorrow and see if it's still there. Is there anything that I should look out for? Any little test I can do there at the counter to see if it's a good pistol?
If these Russian .380 versions are getting harder to find... maybe that's another reason to get it. Hmmm... :)

[M2 Carbine]

Jim, Look at the sight screws and see if they look secure. A very few have lost the screws.

Operate the thumb safety/ decocker for normal operation.

Take note that the thumb safety feels secure in the ON and OFF detents.
If the thumb safety spring gets a little weak the safety will randomly jump out of the OFF detent and the hammer will hit it causing a light or no primer strike.

That's not a deal breaker. The spring can be fixed or the safety replaced.

If you can try some of the ammo you intend using, HP, etc.

[JimJD]

Ahhhh....Good to know that now M2.
Thanks! :D

[M2 Carbine]

JimJD
Wow! That's a lot of mud and gunk on that Mak!
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I think the coolest picture was when the Mak came out of the freezer covered with frost.:D

[denfoote]

IJ-70-17A.
Pistolet Makarova chambered in 9mm kurz!! :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/denfoote/IJ70.jpg

[JimJD]

Went to the range today.
Sitting there in the case was that Mak. After inspecting it, I asked them if I could buy a box of ammo and try it out at the range. They said yes, and off I went to give it a spin. It's a IJ-70-17A like the one in Denfoote's photo. Brought into the country by a Texas based operation. I think it was named Big Bear? The pistol is in great shape and was shot very little from what I could see. All of the rear sight screws are in place. I checked the thumb safety per M2 Carbine's instructions, and it seems fine. I'd like it to be a little tighter, but I think all is well. I'm a little surprised that the finish is as good as it is. It comes with a spare mag, a cleaning tool and another type of tool I don't know about yet(for sight adjustments and all around screw driver?), original manual in English, and the original box.

Ammo was fifty rounds of .380 Auto- Speer Lawman 95 Gr. TMJ. I Shot the pistol at about fifteen yards and the pistol is capable of better accuracy than My skills allow. I got(what I feel to be) acceptable groupings at that distance. With practice, I know I can do better. At first I was all over the place, but My groups tightened after the second magazine. I got them down to about 4-4.5 inches. at the end of the box.

The Mak feels great in My hand. It feels like a good, solid pistol.
After My session was done with the Mak, My XD-9, and Neos, I headed back to the range shop. They dropped the price down to $145.00 and asked Me if I wanted it. I said yes. Yes please. :)
So I'm now the owner of a Mak in .380!
Thanks for all of the info everyone, it was good to know some pointers when I went into this purchase.
The High Road helps another member yet again! :D

[M2 Carbine]

Sounds like a good buy Jim.

Enjoy.:)


BTW, I happen to have these pictures handy.
(I was telling someone how to rebend their safety spring that had gotten too lose)

The first is the position of the safety to remove it from the slide.
(you may already know that)

And the second is what the safety spring looks like when removed from the safety.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Safetyremovalposition.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Safetyspring.jpg

[halvey]

Find a .45 for less than $200 that runs like a clock out of the box and will continue to do so for decades... And find a Mak that shoots a .45. :)

I had more jams with my Makarov than my Colt Defender. Again, I'm not saying the Mak is bad. Next time I see a good one in .380, I will buy it. But that's because I load for .380 and the 9x18 isn't any better according to Lymans, Alliants and Metallic Reloading manuals.

[M2 Carbine]

halvey what kind of jams are you having?

There's usually only a couple things that will cause the Mak to jam and they can usually be easily fixed.

I also intend buying the next 380 Mak I see (unless it's at a ripoff price, Jim got a good price on his).

The "standard" 380 and 9x18 load is pretty close.
95 grain bullet doing a few feet under 1,000 fps.

But there are Mak factory 115 and 120 grain JHP loads doing 1,000+ fps and with a heavier recoil spring the MaK will easily handle 1,150 fps loads.

That's a lot closer to the 9mm side than 380.

Guns differ, but the new 9x18 Bulgarian Mak I've been trying to run a quick 1,000 rounds through, likes the hotter loads better than the factory 95 grain JHP.

8x11 inch target
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Maktestgun35yards.jpg

[NavajoNPaleFace]

Years back I was given an East German Mak in the form of a payment for some favors I did for a fellow.

The few trips I took him to the VA hospital cost me far less than what I could have bought the same gun. But, with his continuing aging he insisted I take his gun and to take good care of it.

So....on with my point.

I have handguns in many, many calibers. I shoot all of the guns I have. I have CCW and I carry on a very frequent basis. I realize that the likely need to unholster will happen at ranges from 7-15 yards. I also realize that if I need to alert adrenaline will be flowing like coffee at a cheap diner. But, I am a suitable threat to any danger that I face.

And....I would not hesitate to carry the Mak...and, at times, I do.

Bottome line: any gun that will allow you to hit your intended target is far, far better than not having anything.

I've known people that have more confidence in one particular gun they have over another. My advice to them was, and still is, carry the gun that gives you that confidence edge to get the job done, if needed.

And, at normal self defense ranges, the 9 X 18 will get the job done with proper shot placement.

[JimJD]

Hey, thanks for the how-to and photos on the safety spring fix M2. :D

[DMK]

Years back I was given an East German Mak in the form of a payment for some favors I did for a fellow.

The few trips I took him to the VA hospital cost me far less than what I could have bought the same gun. But, with his continuing aging he insisted I take his gun and to take good care of it.
Wow, very nice gift. The E. German Maks are the best of the bunch. You do realize that the German Maks go for like $300 now right?

[joebogey]

I have 2 Maks, a Russian and a Bulgie.
The Russian I shoot only. The Bulgie I sent to a smith in Texas and had it nickled to use as a carry gun.
They look really nice with the nickled finish and walnut grips.
My only FTF has been with cheap surplus ammo.

[JimJD]

Picked up the Mak on thursday, took it out on saturday.
I put another hundred rounds through the pistol with zero problems.
This time around it was WWB .380 loads picked up at the local Wal-Mart. So far, I have 150 rounds fired in this pistol and it's going well. I guess when I go through another 100, I can consider the Mak for carry in the future. I am wondering about the Adj. sights though. Hmmm....
Just have to shop around for a holster, maybe a set of Pearce grips. I've also looked into getting a wolff replacement spring.
So far, I'm happy with this purchase.

[steelhead]

I own a couple of EG Maks. I modified one for carry and left the other virgin. About the only thing wrong with the design is the sights and I fixed that with some Novak's. The aftermarket grips are nice but they increase the grip size quite a bit which made a noticeable difference when carrying.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/100704.JPG http://www.hunt101.com/img/216554.JPG http://www.hunt101.com/img/216556.JPG

[cls12vg30]

A Bulgarian Mak in 9x18 is my carry weapon of choice, mainly for the reasons of cost, accuracy, and unflinching reliability. I have also done my darndest to get the Bulgie to malfunction, to no avail.
I'd take 9x18 over .380 any day, as mentioned earlier there are loads available that are quite a bit hotter than most .380. The 9x18 bullet diameter is actually larger than both .380 and 9x19, .364" versus .355", not very significant but every little bit helps.
But again, my main attractions to the Mak are its reliability and accuracy. After putting about 500 rounds through it since I got it in August, the Mak already feels like an extension of my hand. I've shot several 1911's and a .40 Springfield XD, and I found I could shoot more accurately with my trusty Mak, and it's even more fun and satisfying to shoot than my CZ-52.