Came up with an alternative to an AWB


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Dbl0Kevin
October 10, 2004, 09:32 PM
So in the constant thoughts that bounce around in my head I was thinking of the AWB and the reason that they give for it being needed: that AW's are used in crimes and can mow down lots of people blah blah. So I came up with an idea to do one of two things. Either solve the problem to our mutual satisfaction OR out these people for what they really are, anti-gun zealots who hate firearms and really couldn't care less about "crime".

My idea is very simple. Take the "list" of so called assault weapons that they came up with and have a law that states if you use an "assault weapon" in the commission of a violent felony (murder, rape, armed robbery, kidnapping, etc.) you are given a mandatory sentence of 25 years to life in a federal pen. No plea bargains, no deals, nada. If we look at the reduction in crime seen from project exile where many felons were keeping their guns at home because of a 5 year mandatory what criminal is actually going to pick a fake "assault weapon" that could get him 25 to life in federal prison.

So what do you guys think? I would say that this would balance the protection of our rights to own these guns while providing a strong deterrent to violent criminals from using them. And if they do actually use them we get to lock away a violent scumbag for good.

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Standing Wolf
October 10, 2004, 09:43 PM
...out these people for what they really are, anti-gun zealots who hate firearms and really couldn't care less about "crime".

The real point of the so-called "assault weapons" ban was to establish the legal principle that some firearms are so military-looking that ordinary commoners can't be trusted with them.

If the leftist extremists were even remotely concerned with crime, they'd immediately stop advocating further infringements of the nation's Second Amendment civil rights and demand that we take action against the root cause of violent crime: criminals. It'll be a chilly morning in hell's furnace room before that happens, friends.

SkyDaver
October 10, 2004, 09:44 PM
Not a lot of time to go into detail, but I think it's a bad idea.

We need to move towards the point were committing a violent crime is .... committing a violent crime.

What effect does the tool have?

Is a person less dead because they were beaten to death?

GigaBuist
October 10, 2004, 10:03 PM
Murder, kidnape, or rape and you should get 25 years to life anyway. I don't care if you used a Slinky to do it.

Dbl0Kevin
October 10, 2004, 10:05 PM
Well I just used those as examples, but it would encompass things like attempted murder, robbery, and aggravated assault which are the most important ones.

Mulliga
October 10, 2004, 10:06 PM
If someone is willing to take an AR-15 and start shooting into a crowd, I doubt any such punishment will deter them.

Now if half that crowd is carrying...:D

Dbl0Kevin
October 10, 2004, 10:13 PM
Well if someone is suicidal there is no deterence that will help. However, being here in NJ the "thugs" and gang members in cities like Camden look at carrying a TEC-9 as a status symbol of sorts. It seems to be the only name of a gun that most of them even know. So my intent was to stop street thugs and criminals from looking towards "assault weapons". I dunno maybe I should go back to the drawing board. :scrutiny:

Zrex
October 10, 2004, 10:57 PM
So you would punish people based on what their weapon of choice looks like?

Yes, and drunk driving incidents will go down if there is mandatory jail time if you are caught in a red car!

Bad idea, sorry. No surrender, no defeat. To give into the anti's like this tells them that even the pro gun people think there is something morally wrong with certain semi auto weapons.

Telperion
October 10, 2004, 11:34 PM
Bzzt... your idea would require re-introducing the concept of "assault weapon" into the law, when the whole idea is complete fiction designed to acclimate the public to incremental gun prohibition. Once you have a statue defining "assault weapon", it's trivial to amend the law to prohibit them.

PMDW
October 10, 2004, 11:54 PM
I too came up with an alternative to an AWB.

No AWB.

BHPshooter
October 11, 2004, 01:00 AM
Well, the problem with your idea is that you're actually trying to work with the antis... we've tried that for over seventy years, and all it's got us was this mess.

The AWB didn't work, and on top of that, the tool doesn't matter -- it's the action. People killed by strangulation with telephone cords are every bit as dead as people killed with an SKS.

Additionally, the antis even admitted that the AWB wasn't meant to reduce crime (althoug that was the pretense it was passed under); it was intended to desensitize us to the idea of slowly outlawing all guns.

We've tried working with them, and it doesn't work. Now it's time to roll up our sleeves and fight tooth and nail.

Wes

Dbl0Kevin
October 11, 2004, 11:27 AM
Additionally, the antis even admitted that the AWB wasn't meant to reduce crime (althoug that was the pretense it was passed under); it was intended to desensitize us to the idea of slowly outlawing all guns.

I know that, and you know that. Those are the hardcore antis that would be outed as I said. But the majority of the ignorant masses who support an AWB don't realize that. I figured this bill would be a way to keep them off our backs and maybe even make some others wake up to the true intent of gun banners.

ctdonath
October 11, 2004, 01:02 PM
.

TallPine
October 11, 2004, 01:38 PM
A proper "alternative" to the AWB, would be to require every able bodied man to own and maintain a rifle suitable for battle, along with some specified minimum number of cartridges.

:neener:

Carlos
October 11, 2004, 04:19 PM
Agreed, and for the record, I think the punishments for crimes committed with a gun; i.e., robbery, murder, rape, should be dealt with a lot more severely. We already have such laws on the books. Let's beef em up.

Now, I'm NOT talking about possession of a weapon in a park, other types of so-called crimes with guns.

Gifted
October 11, 2004, 05:45 PM
Since banning certain guns based on useless features didn't work let's do an experiment of our own. Repeal the limitations passed in the eighties, perhaps for two years. We're not asking as much as they were with the AWB, so they can't complain. And if crime does go up, well, there's the answer. What'd'ya think?

Jim K
October 11, 2004, 07:31 PM
Many states already have laws requiring a mandatory additional sentence for crimes committed with firearms, not just handguns or assault rifles. They are seldom enforced and judges ignore them.

The anti-gun gang does not care about crime, except as crime can be used as an excuse for the passage of more gun control laws. Sen. Lautenberg, (D-NJ) once said "I don't give a damn about crime, I want to get rid of the guns in this country."

That is the general attitude of all liberal Democrats, which is why Kerry's claim to be a gun owning sportsman is so ludicrous.

Jim

Waitone
October 12, 2004, 09:22 PM
The AWB is made up law.

There is no negotiations with anti-self defense bigots.

Ya give 'em nuthin'.

No peace offering, no show of good will, no compromise. Ya give 'em nuthin'.

ceetee
October 12, 2004, 09:37 PM
Here in Florida, we have the "10-20-Life" law.

1. Possess a firearm during the commission of a felony gets you 10 years minimum mandatory.

2. Somebody gets shot, you get 20.

3. Somebody dies gets you "life" (in reality, 25 years).

They still plead cases down and reduce sentences to get easy convictions. They still get good time, and gain time.

There is no "real solution". Only steps toward better protecting society.

rock jock
October 12, 2004, 10:02 PM
Kevin,

I used to share your desire for a logical, straightforward approach to solving the problem of gun crime while not infringing on a law-abiding citizens RKBA. But, a few years ago, I joined The Firing Line and then The High Road and I started reading what the antis were saying. mind you, not what WE were saying about the antis, but direct quotes from them. It became obvious real fast that they their true goal has nothing to do with reducing crime. They are incurable liars. Deception and misinformation are the tools of their trade.

Dbl0Kevin
October 12, 2004, 10:16 PM
Rock Jock,

I understand what you are saying and that was part of my point. While the anti-gun zealots feel this way I don't believe that most people do. They are anti-gun simply out of ignorance. I figured if they see the total wackos not caring about crime reducing measures it would show some people the true intent of the gun banners. Those people who say "oh they'll never ban guns in America"

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