[Ram]

Hi everyone !,
I wanted to ask a question which I hope wont be taken the wrong way, but it was just an obervation at a gun show I attended this weekend. I kept reading all these post about how great Kel-Tech was/is on various forums, so I looked for one this weekend at the show. Well, what I found was not what I was expecting. The prices started at around $230 on up for what seemed to be a poor finished gun and it felt kinda "cheap" too. I know that looks arent everything because I am a Glock owner, but why so expensive for such a little gun ? In my mind it looks and feels like a $100 gun. Right next to it was a Walther P22 for $250. So, my only question is are Kel-Tech's worth the money ? I know they make great CCW guns, but for the money seems like you should get a better finish. I am in no way bashing the gun, I am just trying to figure out what makes this gun command such a price.

Thanks,
Ram

[OF]

I'm with Ram, I know people like these things, but I've only handled one once and I wasn't impressed (never fired one). It had a super cheap Kay-Bee toys kind of feel to it and rough edges from the plastic molding. Almost like those smooth plastic fringes that kids molded plastic toys get on them where the plastic squirts out of the mold and then is never cut off.

What is the attraction to these things!?

- Gabe

[OF]

Where are my manners, Welcome to THR, Ram!?

- Gabe

[Ram]

Yes, you pretty much summed it up. I would expect that from a $50 plastic Jennings (if there was one) , but not a $200+ gun.
I think that Kal-Tech could do better in the finishing dept. It's a U.S. product ! Lets do it right guys !

Regards,
Ram

[Handy]

The problem here is that you'll be hard pressed to find another reliable US made auto for $250. I understand why you compared it to the P22, but the P22 seems to be a larger QC problem, and it isn't built to withstand .40 recoil and pressures.

Keltec has done reasonably well offering a decently reliable product for cheap. It seems they've kept the price down by not sweating the details. I'm no huge fan, but the price is low and they seem to work.

If you want another plastic, US made compact you could spend $300 more for a Kahr.

[10-Ring]

[sarcasm mode] My state has not been able to deem Kel Tecs safe for me to own[sarcasm off]

The Kel Tecs are not on our approved list, so this isn't even an issue in CA :(


PS... is it 'Keltec', 'Kel Tec', 'Kel Tech' or 'Keltek'?:confused:

[OF]

The Kel Tecs are not on our approved listMan, what a major affront that whole BS is. :fire:

- Gabe

[Pico]

These are rough little pistols that are usually finished by the owners to a certain degree. You either hate them or love them. I love my P-11, no problems at all in 600 rds.

Pico

[Ebbtide]

230 bucks for such a small package with factory capacity of 10 rds. of 9mm seems like a good deal to me. As a "work" gun the finish does not bother me. I'm not sure who offers a better deal on such a tuff little gun.

http://www.ktog.org/vbulletin/index.php?

The above link is to the keltec forum board. It looks as though the final fit and finish is left up to the customer. I like to tinker and don't mind saving a few hundred dollars to perform these minor adjustments.

[Blackhawk]

What is the attraction to these things!?That's like the pre-adolescent asking his older brother about girls.

Try one. You'll either love it or hate it.

Just like girls.... :D

[Blackhawk]

PS... is it 'Keltec', 'Kel Tec', 'Kel Tech' or 'Keltek'?On the guns and in the documentation it's rendered four different ways:

KEL
TEC

KEL-TEC

KEL TEC

Kel-Tec

[Clark]

Blackhawk,
I have been married for 25 years, but have had a Kel-Tec's for 5 years.

I guess I am still in the honeymoon phase with the Kel-Tec's.

The P32 in my pocket weighs 6 ounces unloaded and 10 ounces loaded. Factory 32 acp ammo and book loads will penetrate 1" or wood, but my experimental handloads will penetrate 5" of wood.

That gun is so small and light, I can carry it without a holster, and not feel it.

[emann]

I have a feeling if the gun costed $450 or so everybody would rave about it and no "it felt cheap in my hands" comments would be made anymore. Amazing how a gun's price tag can change everything.

[Minute_Of_Torso]

I only have on thing to say about the P-11 I purchased NIB for $225.00 . . .

BANG, BANG, BANG (multiplied by approximately 1500) - never failed to go BANG.

[Blackhawk]

IMO, you've got that right, emann! :D

Once lived not far from a brewery. It bottled two brands, a premium one and one that sold for about half the price. Had a blindfold taste test party among a bunch of friends who liked the premium brand a lot and eschewed the cheaper brand having tried it several times before. 100% of them were positive that the cheaper brand was the premium one.

They were right. The brewery only had ONE line, and the only difference was the labels.

[BamBam]

Kel-Tec P-32 pistols are kinda' cheezy feeling when you first handle them. After you shoot a few mags thru them you don't notice so much.
IMHO, anything that light won't feel like it has the quality of a heavier weapon.
My P-32 has pretty much replaced my Jetfire and G-22 as my exclusive full-time carry peice.

PS to Blackhawk,
I worked at Stroh's Brewery in the 80's. I got a kick out of folks saying Schaeffer was a lousey beer but would drink Old Milwaukee all night long. Both beers came out of the same spigot!

[22luvr]

Both my P11 and P32 were "ugly little guns." What can you do with polymer anyway? Field strip a Kel-Tec to see that the essential critical moving parts of the gun are hardened steel. The slide is mated to a solid aluminum block which is imbedded into the polyer grip. You're paying for George Kelgren's innovative designs. Where else can you find a lighter, thinner, smaller pocket pistol with the capacity of a Kel-Tec?

For example, their newly-introducted P-3AT will weigh, fully loaded, approximately HALF the weight of NAA's .380 Guardian. NAA manufactures beautiful guns but their designs are dated with the blow-back action. I'm more than happy to pay Kel-Tec for their ingenious products. It's a tool. I'd rather have an ugly little gun that goes "bang" over a "purdy" little gun that goes "click."

Besides, I'm not into pulling my gun out to wave it about and exclaim "Look at the finish and detail work in this beauty." Who cares??

It's a functioning mass-produced tool that does it's job.
And if it doesn't Kel-Tec's lifetime warranty will take care that.

[mini14jac]

There are, I think, two different polymer 9mm guns that look and feel very similar to a KelTec, and sell for very close to $100.
I have seen both returned broken after 1 mag of ammo to a local shop.

The KelTec guns may feel cheap, but they represent an awesome value for the money.

The 9mm has a hard trigger. I have owned two, but they are not my cup of tea.
We really like the .32 KelTec. We currently have two of those.
Compared to a Seecamp, which has a $450+ price tag, (if you are lucky), possibly a long wait to find one, and non-existant customer service.

KelTecs are readily available, at around $230.
The 32 weighs around 8oz. loaded , they are accurate, relaible, and fun to shoot.
Throw in a lifetime warranty, with an amazing customer service department, and you begin to see what your money buys.

Granted, no KelTec is going to win a beauty contest, but that is not what most of us are looking for in a carry gun.

[Ram]

Hello everyone and thanks for all the great feedback ! It appears that Kel-tec is considered by many to be a tool gun which is highly reliable and worry free due to their service center.
It would be great if they could get them down into the sub $200 range because I think they would sell like crazy if they were right at $200 or below. It's all a mind set just like $199.99 looks better then $200.00. :) I wonder just how much margin they have built into their guns ? I think they are missing a great opportuinity to make their money in quantities versus margin. After all, this is no collectors item that has to be limited in numbers, but a tool and apparently a very good tool. Just my two cents. Thinking out loud.

Regards,
Ram

[Felonious Monk]

Dad was an FBI agent, and we had snubbies floating around the house the whole time I was growing up.

I never shot handguns growing up, though; it was all shotguns and hunting rifles. Shot an M-16 in Basic Training, and that was the extent of my experience until about a year ago, when a friend took me shooting and I got the fever.

I wanted a small, light, potent gun that could be a CCW, serve as an HD gun, and any other defensive role I needed to press it into service.

I saw the Taurus Millennium P-111 in 9mm, and it looked pretty good. 10 rounds of 9mm, in a light, concealable package. I came across TFL, and KTOG the same week. Saw the problems people had with the Tauri, and the RAVES people had over the Kel-Tecs.

Bought a P-11. Magnificent design. Trigger sucked though, and using the simple modifications pioneered by those who had gone before me, smoothed and lightened the trigger to the point that it is the sweetest DA trigger I've ever shot (which now includes quite a few Smiths, KT's, Tauruses, Rugers, and so on).

Bought my bride a P-32. Cleaned and lubed it right out of the box, and it's been 100%. It's PURPLE :what: :rolleyes: with a hard-chrome slide, belt clip, and trigger shoe. Not only does she LOVE it (no accounting for tastes, but then she married ME), but she is absolutely deadly with it. Unbelievably so.

I'm trying to be patient while waiting for the P-3AT. It'll be another winner, I believe.

Since I was "enlightened" to RKBA, I've also gotten a professionally 'smithed Ruger SP101, a Rossi snub, and 2 other S/A's.

My Kel-Tecs aren't so expensive as to be babied, but are totally reliable and FUN to shoot, fun to tweak, and well-designed.

I don't mind doing a little of the finish work/fluff and buff if it saves me the difference in price between a KT and a Kahr. YMMV.

[alamo]

Ram wrote:

It would be great if they could get them down into the sub $200 range because I think they would sell like crazy if they were right at $200 or below. It's all a mind set just like $199.99 looks better then $200.00.
I think they are missing a great opportuinity to make their money in quantities versus margin.

--------------------------------

They do sell like crazy. The P-32 has been around almost 4 years and they've sold over 102,000 of them. I don't have any statistics on sales of individual models but that's got to be one of the top selling pistols over that time period, particularly for a pistol that doesn't have large bulk sales to law enforcement like Glock.
I've seen blue P-32s selling for $199 in some places.

[Ram]

nt

[JohnBT]

The ones in the funny colors have been selling for $199 to $219 at the gun shows here for some time.

I've owned a P-32 for a couple of years and have maybe $300 in it with the slide exchange and one trip back to the shop early on for the trigger axis thingy to be fixed. I'm happy. I've gotten my money's worth already and the gun isn't worn out yet.

If the dern things said Glock-Tec on them people would be paying $400 or more (for) one and jumping up and down and speaking in tongues.

John

(edited to add a for)

[Felonious Monk]

If the dern things said Glock-Tec on them people would be paying $400 or more one and jumping up and down and speaking in tongues.LMAO! :p
No, they'd have a "Recall that's NOT a recall" on E-series serial numbers, and tons of ND's and AD's. :D

[modifiedbrowning]

Ram, go to www.gunsamerica.com. There is a number of P11's for $199.00, one with nightsights I believe.

[Hawkeye755]

I got my Kel Tec about six years ago and I have been pleased with the results. The only complaint that I have is that I traded a HK USP 40 in to get it :banghead:

I needed a couple carry guns and didn't have a lot of money at the time. The dumb things we do in our youth. I also got a Taurus 605 too.

I have never had any problems with it jamming or not firing. It has served me well. I just recently found KTOG.org. There is a ton of information about the Kel tec there. they also have some information on things you can do yourself to made the gun better. If you buy one you have to checkout this site. I plan on trying some of them myself this weekend.

[Island Beretta]

P11- Great value for money. Shoots well, reliable, durable, light and extremely compact. Accepts 15 round S&W mags:cool:

[yzguy]

just in case anyone reading does not already know....

just some pages I have put together about my KT's:
http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/index.htm

including:
disassembly, trigger mods, how I carry with a 12 round mag, and a few more mods, opions and fixes...

[mini14jac]

Ram wrote:
It would be great if they could get them down into the sub $200 range because I think they would sell like crazy if they were right at $200 or below. It's all a mind set just like $199.99 looks better then $200.00.

Ram,
We have a local "for sale" paper called "The Tennessee Trader".
No charge to advertise things you want to sell.
There is a used P11 in this week's issue for $150, with the pinky extension, Hand-all, and belt clip.

But, if you look at the price of a new Glock, Hk, Sig, or even Ruger, you will see that $239 is actually a good price.

And, as someone else said, they do sell like crazy.
A local shop doesn't like to keep a lot of inventory on hand.
She orders one P11 and puts it under glass. It sells in less than a week, usually.
Then she orders another one.
It's been that way since they came out.