David Tubb's FinalFinish System??


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twoblink
October 12, 2004, 02:48 AM
Anybody try this? Results? Reading up on spectacular results, such as 5MOA -> 3MOA... for about $30..

Anybody post some testimonies?

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Sam Adams
October 12, 2004, 11:21 AM
Bumping for a reply - I'm also curious.

twoblink
October 12, 2004, 11:34 AM
http://www.chuckhawks.com/affordable_accuracy.htm

This is the page that perk'ed my interests..

It seems like a very very cheap bet... And if your rifle is like 5MOA, you can't do much worse.. It seems the perfect test for those "Minute of Pie Plate" guns.

""
Tweak #1 - David Tubb's Final Finish System

The most likely culprit on the Scout seemed to be the barrel. Even though my inspection of the bore didn't reveal any defects, I felt the Final Finish System held the greatest promise for improvement. At only $35 per kit, the final finish system was the least expensive modification and easiest to hide from my wife.

The .308 kits contain 75 bullets of five different levels of polish conveniently numbered 1 through 5 in a neat plastic container. I followed the instructions with only one exception. The manufacturer wants you to fire 50 of the bullets (10 of each level of polish) and use the 25 "bonus" bullets (five #3, ten #4 and five #5s) later if accuracy deteriorates. Since I could throw rocks into a tighter pattern than the Scout could shoot, I decided to fire all 75 bullets for maximum effect. I followed the manufacturer's directions for the M700.

With a one-minute pause between shots, and a thorough barrel cleaning between each string containing a different polishing compound, it took two hours to fire the 75 bullets through each weapon. The 190-grain Sierra Match King bullets were too heavy to stabilize in the Scout's 1:12 barrel and I hit only seven bowling pins at the 200-yard mark with the 75 shots. This did not build my confidence. The M700, with a 1:10 twist and 26" barrel, performed well with the heavier bullets, striking 71 of the 75 targets.

After firing the last polishing bullet, I cleaned the barrels thoroughly and fired five fouling shots with the test ammunition. Incredibly, the Scout's group measured 2.96". My confidence in American advertising restored, I fired three groups of five rounds for record. They measured 2.875, 2.75", and 2.375", for an average group size of 2.67". The M700 groups measured 1.15", 0.92", and 0.90", producing an average group size of 0.99". I had my sub-MOA rifle--barely.

In conclusion, David Tubb's Final Polish System improved the accuracy of the Scout from 4.44" to 2.67", or 39.83%. It improved the M700's accuracy from 1.61" to 0.99", or about 38.5%.

Finding: For $35 per weapon, this produced an exceptional accuracy improvement.

HankB
October 12, 2004, 01:17 PM
By all I've read, fire lapping will produce beneficial results on rough or abused barrels, with very little risk of ruining the barrel.

But if you have a brand new, top-notch, premium, target-grade barrel already, you'd be well advised to avoid fire polishing it.

waynzwld
October 12, 2004, 01:57 PM
I've used it on 3 different rifles with good results.

1st rifle was a Colt AR, 20" H-Bar. Shot about 3/4" to 1". Used the 3 fine lapping sets of bullets on it, after through cleaning, it was shooting 3/8" to 1/2" with same ammo.

2nd rifle was a Remington 700 in 6mm. It was well worn with many rounds through it. Ran half the number of rough lapping bullets through it and finished with a full set of the fine. It went from around an inch to 3/4" or less.

Third rifle was a loaded SA M1A, brand new out of the box. Ran the full set through it. When done with that and thoroughly cleaned, off a bench rest, with much concentration and good targets, I managed to shoot a first group of 3/4", second group of 7/8" and a third group of 1", all with open sights at 100 yards, after that, my old eyes gave out :eek: and the rest of the groups were 1-1/2" to 2".

All barrels cleaned up very easy after using final finish and the patches went down the barrels like they were in a glass tube.

Black Dragon
October 12, 2004, 02:47 PM
My father-in-law has used the final finish on his AR-10. The groups went from
around 1.25 to around .75. I ran then through my AR-10 and got about the
same thing.
I have not tried them on my AR-15 or any other rifle as of yet.

Mark whiz
October 12, 2004, 04:27 PM
I used the system on an old Winchester Model 100 that had seen MUCH better days and it made a significant improvement to it's accuracy and to clean-up.................... the thing used to be HORRIBLE about copper fouling, but not anymore. :D

Sam Adams
October 12, 2004, 05:42 PM
At only $35 per kit, the final finish system was the least expensive modification and easiest to hide from my wife.

This is a consideration of great significance for some of us. Sending a rifle out for gunsmithing may not be a problem, but having it delivered to the front door afterwards can raise both eyebrows and hackles, depending on the circumstances.

WhiteKnight
October 12, 2004, 07:12 PM
I was under the impression that this kit simply accomplished what a few hundred (or thousand) rounds down the barrel would do but in a much shorter time frame. However, since some of you here have reported that it helps old barrels that one would think would be already broken in, I'm a little confused.

Mark whiz
October 12, 2004, 08:33 PM
The abrasives on the bullets will take down any roughness on the bore rifling and the finest grits give it a good polish to boot. So worn, rough or pitted barrels can be smoothed out or at least somewhat evened up with this type of fire-lapping.

Some new barrels can be polished a littler better with the last 3 fine grits...............but if you have a custom or hand-lapped barrel, there is little need to go this route.

twoblink
October 12, 2004, 10:42 PM
Sam,

It sucks when the wife tells you "You've got a package.. It'd better not be a new gun, or a gun job you sent one of your old ones out for.."

I would think however, this would improve any barrel, regardless if it's old or new. There's gotta be manufacturing imperfections in every barrel. This just evens things out...

Sam Adams
October 13, 2004, 12:15 PM
By the way, for those of you who have C&R's, the price at Brownell's is $22.46 in any of the available calibers. I do believe that I'll be getting one. I'll try it first in my Swiss K-31, after previously establishing a baseline of performance. Better to ruin a barrel on a $120 gun than a $500+ one (though from all of the reports, ruining a barrel is the last thing that this will do).

WhiteKnight
October 13, 2004, 03:29 PM
When a person with a C&R orders from Midway/Brownells, do they have to have the order shipped to their home address? (or would they be able to order a package for a friend in another state with their C&R license in order to recieve the discount)

Sam Adams
October 13, 2004, 04:42 PM
My experience with this is that unless you have an item for which the C&R is required (i.e. a C&R firearm), they'll ship you anything you want to wherever you want. However, I'd double check this with the particular supplier before ordering.

WhiteKnight
October 13, 2004, 06:05 PM
Would anyone with a C&R be willing to do another member a favor? ;)

twoblink
October 14, 2004, 01:08 AM
Sam,

I hope you get one and give us a detailed report...

I've got a Mauser I was considering it on.. Would love to know how that ends up...

The_Antibubba
October 14, 2004, 05:19 AM
David Tubb's mentions a Throat Maintenance System to combat throat erosion. Has anyone tried this?

Sam Adams
November 18, 2004, 05:11 PM
"I hope you get one and give us a detailed report."

Brownell's was out of the .30 cal. systems, but I received one for the .224 (i.e. my AR). I'll be loading that over the next week or so, and I'll report afterwards.

First, though, I'm going to test some loads to get a baseline of performance. I already have a baseline with 52 SMKs using 748 (about 1 MOA, if I do my job); I want to test the 748 with the 52 Amax bullets, then test both bullets with Varget (and maybe some H-4895, if I can get my hands on it in time).

After that, I'm going to thoroughly clean the barrel with JB bore-cleaning compound, some Kroil and some Slip 2000 (yet another CLP that I just HAD to buy a small bottle of at the last gun show). I'll get the barrel sparkling first, then do the Final Finish treatment, then load up the best of the loads from the test to see how they do.

theCZ
November 18, 2004, 05:45 PM
I bought it for my CZ527 .223. The gun shot great, but I was just curious about seeing if it would improve my barrel at all. Well, The accuracy is just about the same, but it now takes about twice as long for accuracy to be affected by fouling. Before and after my gun shoots 5 shot groups at .3-.6".

Sam Adams
November 18, 2004, 06:52 PM
With accuracy like that, it is hard to improve much. It is good, however, to hear about the cleaner barrels. There's no pain in the butt worse than cleaning a gun after the fun of the range, and to the extent that this can be reduced, great.

DBR
November 18, 2004, 08:11 PM
One of the gun rags evaluated fire lapping a few years ago using a borescope to see what was really happening. The result was that firelapping really helped barrels with throat erosion. To a lesser extent it smoothed the whole bore. It also removed most of the rags left by the rifling broach and smoothed reamer marks. I have used this process on several handguns with less than perfect bores. While I cannot claim any measurable accuracy change, they did clean up easier afterwards. It really does work most of the time.

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