[io333]

Below is a post of mine from another thread that I'm elevating in hopes of getting some response:


------------------------------------------------------------------------


I've been thinking long and hard about picking up a .44 or a .45 revolver one of these days, but I am having a very difficult time deciding. One thing that is pushing me in the direction of the .45 is that from what I can figure, for the same energy downrange loads, the .45 will be somewhat quieter since it operates at lower pressures. I don't know for sure whether this is true or not, but should I ever touch off a round without hearing protection, I want to lose as little hearing as possible.

[DDGator]

I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on this forum, but these are my thoughts:

1. Never shoot even a single round without hearing protection. This is very feasible. I have been shooting for over 20 years and have never shot without adequate ear protection for each and every round.

2. The amount of damage done to one's hearing by the report of either round is probably impossible to predict and would vary depending upon the circumstances. I don't think hearing damage is a basis upon which to choose between these calibers. If you find either to be too uncomfortable to shoot while wearing protection -- that is a different story and a very valid concern.

That being said, I find the .44 Magnum to be louder and have more of a pressure wave than .45 Long Colt.

[Mal H]

DDGator stated it perfectly.

Damage is damage. There are degrees of damage, but why risk any? Both rounds will cause ear damage over time no matter which load (light/heavy) is used in either.

[io333]

Yes yes I know the damage. But I was considering the proverbial flock of bears while camping in the woods scenerio. As the flock of grizzlies is screaming down from the sky I'm not about to don plugs and muffs.

[Mal H]

Ah ha!

That's a completely different animal, and you should have mentioned it in the post above. In the case of a life and death situation, you have to go with the hearing-be-damned philosophy and use the round that is most effective for the threat. In my book that is the .44 Magnum with factory loads (the serious factory loads like Garretts). However, if you reload either caliber can be made into a good defensive gun.

[io333]

Well I try not to mention such things because I'd like my question to be taken seriously.

Cor-Bon lists hunting loads with equal energy in both .44 and .45.


Since the .45 has lower pressures, I was assuming that it was less loud.


But just because it's supposed to be less loud on paper doesn't necessarily mean anything in real life, which is why I asked for experienced opinion.


I was almost hoping that folks would tell me that there was no perceivable difference because it's a lot easier to find a good used .44mag compared to trying to find a used .45LC is both in good shape, and built to take modern .45 mega-loadings.

[Mal H]

I think you would be hard pressed to tell much difference between either Cor-bon round. Also, don't forget that in the outdoors, rounds aren't nearly as damaging to your ears as they are at a range, even an outdoor range where there are walls and hard floors, etc. to reflect the sound. Much of the damaging sound pressure comes from reflected sound, and it lasts several milliseconds longer than a shot in the outdoors.

Fortunately, you will, most likely, never have to try to tell the difference 'tween a .44 Mag and a .45 Colt. A close-up-and-personal bear encounter is almost always a once in a lifetime event. ;)

Seriously, I think you might be worrying too much about it. If it happens, it happens. 99.99% of the time you can practice with your revolver using good hearing protection.

[io333]

Fortunately, you will, most likely, never have to try to tell the difference 'tween a .44 Mag and a .45 Colt. A close-up-and-personal bear encounter is almost always a once in a lifetime event.


I knew someone wouldn't be able to resist.




:p

[io333]

I really really really don't want to turn this into a bear thread, but here is why I have concern:


If it were just me out in the woods, I wouldn't give a sh**. I grew up in the woods and am quite familliar with the creatures that inhabit it.


The problem is I have a dog who comes camping with me. Dogs, the stupid (yet still loveable) creatures they are have this tendency to want to protect their owners & I have no doubt that my silly mutt, upon scenting such a strange, new and exciting scent, would follow it to whatever made it and then proceed to try to "save me" from the evil creature.

I love my dog.

Enough said?

[Marshall]

Keep him on a leash or train him to follow commands if your going to take him into "bear woods" camping. Don't know what kind of dog he is but chances are, if he encountered a bear he would be quick enough to out dart him unless he's a lap dog or a slow breed.

[444]

I own revolvers in both chamberings. They are pretty close to identical guns (Ruger SBH 7 1/2", Ruger Blackhawk 7 1/2") I have fired lots of hot loads out of both guns. I have also fired both of them without hearing protection while in the field. I never really thought about the question of whether one would damage my hearing more than the other, so I wasn't paying that much attention to it.
To me, this is like asking whether you would rather be hit in the head with a bat or a hammer.

[E357]

Between a hot loaded 45LC and a 44 magnum there is almost no difference. In fact; the LC can be loaded hotter in some strong guns.

Between a normal (or old fashioned cowboy 45LC load) and a 44 magnum there is a whole world of difference.

The sound is related to the pressure, the amount of powder and the barrel length - everything else being equal.

Elliot

[Wildalaska]

Umm probably a unscientific test...but should work...

Have a friend fire off a 44 mag (say a 3 incher) about 5 inches from your right ear....wait two weeks, test hearing...

Then do a 45 by the left ear...

Report back here......:)

WildsayhwahAlaska

[Blueduck]

IMHO Worrying about hearing damage from shooting in a life or death situation is like worrying about developing carpal tunnel syndrome from pulling the rip cord of your parachute... ;)

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Trust me. As one who has suffered from tinnitis for 20 years, any caliber gunshot will damage hearing.

It's rated in decibels. And all gun shots exceed the limit. And it's not reversible.

[badge107]

The way I see it you have a choice: 1. Risk of becoming deaf. 2: Becoming trail scat. 3: Wear hearing protection while in bear country. (they will probably still eat you becuase you did not hear them coming through the brush). I think people will just have to talk louder for me. :p

[JohnBT]

From keepandbeararms. Not a bit of difference for all practical purposes. JT

25 ACP 155.0 dB
.32 LONG 152.4 dB
.32 ACP 153.5 dB
.380 157.7 dB
9mm 159.8 dB
.38 S&W 153.5 dB
.38 Spl 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB
.41 Magnum 163.2 dB
.44 Spl 155.9 dB
.45 ACP 157.0 dB
.45 COLT 154.7 dB

[MP5]

25 ACP 155.0 dB
.32 LONG 152.4 dB
.32 ACP 153.5 dB
.380 157.7 dB
9mm 159.8 dB
.38 S&W 153.5 dB
.38 Spl 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB
.41 Magnum 163.2 dB
.44 Spl 155.9 dB
.45 ACP 157.0 dB
.45 COLT 154.7 dB


Though if I understand properly, decibels are measured logarithmically; i.e., a few decibels difference is larger in fact than it appears on paper. 40 dB is 10K times as loud as 0 dB (threshold of human hearing)? From what I've read, anything above 85 dB can cause hearing damage, anything over 140 immediately.

For comparison, a jet plane taking off is supposedly around 150 dB at 30m. Around 160 will shatter glass. So bear encounters aside, it's probably wise to double up on hearing protection whenever shooting.

[io333]

.44 mag isn't listed?

[io333]

I found a few sources showing the .44 Remington Magnum at 164dB.


That's a BIG difference compared to 154dB for the .45 Colt.



However, while I can assume that the .44 is at high pressure levels, the .45LC might be at much lower pressure levels.


I saw somewhere (but I can't find it anymore) that of the two hard cast 300 grain loads listed from Cor-Bon:

.45LC 300g -- 40,000 (pressure units, I can't remember which)
.44M 300g -- 46,000


For *identical* velocities and energy downrange.


So I would guess that the .45 LC is quieter, but how much I have no idea. Hense my original question.

[io333]

Here is another, more extensive list, but again it doesn't not tell me what pressures each round is loaded to:

http://www.pressenter.com/~audiodr/noise.htm



Unfortunately I can't get it to format here so you'll have to go through the agony of clicking the link. :eek: :uhoh:

[io333]

Finally, here is a very interesting article, which again, I don't think will format here.

It shows the .45LC, when loaded to the max, having substantially lower pressures, while far more performance out of a *shorter* barrel.

http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/gunnotes.htm

[Onmilo]

With products like Wolf Ears hearing protectors available for less than $300.00 and simple foam ear plugs that can be carried at all times why would you even ponder this as a question?
Alas to answer your question,
If two Identical, unprotected shooters were enclosed in seperate booths and one was shooting factory full house .44 magnums and the other shooter was firing commonly available factory .45 Colt ammunition then the .44 magnum shooter would indeed lose his auditory senses in fewer rounds fired than the shooter firing the .45 Colt.
The decible levels produced by a full house .44 magnum are a little less than twice the auditory decible levels produced by commonly available factory .45 Colt cartrige.
There are, however, factory loaded .45 Colt cartridges available that will produce an auditory decible level that is on par with a factory production .44 magnum cartridge and when these cartridges are compared to factory .44 magnum cartridges the rate and amount of hearing loss would be nearly equal.
There are other points that can or could be factored in and this simple question can or could become very complicated, very quickly.
Hope this helps to answer your query.

[io333]

With products like Wolf Ears hearing protectors available for less than $300.00 and simple foam ear plugs that can be carried at all times why would you even ponder this as a question?



Because of the MEGABEARS coming RIGHT FOR US at SUPER SONIC speed!!!!


Did you miss that part?

:p

[riverdog]

Supersonic is the answer. .44 Mag at 1250 FPS (faster than speed of sound) is significantly worse that .45 Colt at 950 FPS (below SOS). The 10dB difference is a tenfold increase in sound level.

[E357]

Here's (no pun) a cool site where you can actually hear the difference loudness measured in decibels:

Press the "REF" button to start the sound.

http://www.measure.demon.co.uk/Acoustics_Software/db_demo.html

Elliot

[JohnBT]

I still maintain that there isn't much difference in the rounds no matter what the published db levels are. They are both loud enough to ruin your hearing with one shot. You might not go deaf, but trust me that you don't want your ears to ring day in and day out for the rest of your life.

John

[Marshall]

My .357's seem louder than my .44's and .45lc. The .44's and .45lc don't seem too different to me. I have shot them both without hearing protection, outside, couldn't tell much difference at all.

When you're deer hunting with handguns, you don't have much choice but to go without hearing protection.

[JNewell]

Every 3dB is a doubling of sound loudness, IIRC. It's a log scale.

The #s above are interesting, but there are too many unknowns to reach any conclusions, I think. For example, the figures probably vary a lot depending on barrel length. Think of the difference between a .357 Mag from a 2 inch barrel compared to a 6 inch barrel. For that matter, think of .22 RF handguns versus rifles.

Also, without knowing what kind of loads were tested, it's hard to reach conclusions. You can't compare a .45 Colt load doing 950 fps to a .44 Mag load doing 1200+ fps.

The practical answer may be that *all* of these figures are so far into the red zone for hearing safety that the real world differences, at least between the two loads you mention, and assuming equivalent terminal ballistics, are not significant. Yes, the .44 Mag load may be 3 or 6 or 9dB louder, but with numbers up in the 140s or 150s, the difference is incremental, even though on paper it represents a 2x or 4x or whatever "louder" report.

[io333]

Here's (no pun) a cool site where you can actually hear the difference loudness measured in decibels:



That was incredibly informative.


Quite a difference to just remove only 6db. Removing 10 or 20 db was a tremendous difference.




Riverdog, that can't be right. How can a subsonic round catch a supersonic bear?

[riverdog]

Riverdog, that can't be right. How can a subsonic round catch a supersonic bear? Easy if the bear is coming at you, very difficult if it's running away, but in that case he's no threat.

[Blueduck]

So how many decibels is the sonic boom from a bear moving faster than the speed of sound??? :confused:

If I do in fact spot a supersonic Grizzly coming at me, would it be best to reach for hearing protection or handgun first???

[Mal H]

If you're lucky enough to see it coming, all you have to do is get out of its way. Grizzlies are so massive, there ain't no way it's going to be able to slow down or even turn around before it's in the next county!

[Onmilo]

io333 I missed the Mega super sonic bear part!
You can wear Wolf Ears all the time and still hear the bear breaking the sonic barrier and I really should have said you can plunk foam earplugs into your ears any time you think you might be shooting but you may not hear that super bruin with the foamies in place.
In a situation like being eaten by the worlds biggest bear I would worry about hearing loss later and shoot him with a .44 magnum!
Actually, I think I would rather shoot him with a .375 H&H, at least I will be alive after the fact and can buy a hearing aid or two.
Going out as a bear turd isn't on my agenda.

[Sunray]

"....44 mag isn't listed..." Neither is the .22 lr and it'll damage your hearing just as fast and permanently as the hottest .44 mag will.
"...no way it's going to be able to slow down or even turn around..." Nonsense. The biggest griz on earth can swap ends in a heart beat. In any case, you have nothing to fear from bears unless you startle it or get between a momma bear and Boo-boo. You smell of one thing to a bear. Trouble. Yogi will avoid you like the plague.

[Blueduck]

"...no way it's going to be able to slow down or even turn around..." Nonsense. The biggest griz on earth can swap ends in a heart beat.

Sunray I think you missed the fact that Mal was reffering to the "super grizzlies" traveling at over the speed of sound with that last post.