Das Pferd
October 12, 2004, 09:21 PM
I dont know if it started different dates or times elsewhere, but it just started here in Ca.
Interesting so far, nothing I didnt expect.
Interesting so far, nothing I didnt expect.
So whos watching the gun debate on PPV?
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Darkmind
October 12, 2004, 09:24 PM
Keep us updated please.
sekdar
October 12, 2004, 09:31 PM
yes, please keep us updated. i want to watch but my cable service doesn't have it :(
Das Pferd
October 12, 2004, 09:34 PM
UN rep - Australia and Britian banned guns, deaths by guns has gone down. US has more gun deaths then Canada, Australia, and UK. Kept repeating 11500 deaths in the US. Statistics about being more likely to die by guns in the US then anywhere esle. Peace is obtained by banning guns etc etc.
NRA - more likely to be mugged in London then New York city. Violent crime rates of UK and Australia are higher then US. He is for giveing guns to responsible people and takeing them away from criminals. Noted different laws like a felon when caught with a gun get min 5 years automatically. UN has no right to tell US what to do, we have Bill of Rights. Disarming law abiding citizens emboldens criminals.
NRA - more likely to be mugged in London then New York city. Violent crime rates of UK and Australia are higher then US. He is for giveing guns to responsible people and takeing them away from criminals. Noted different laws like a felon when caught with a gun get min 5 years automatically. UN has no right to tell US what to do, we have Bill of Rights. Disarming law abiding citizens emboldens criminals.
RavenVT100
October 12, 2004, 10:05 PM
Deaths by guns have gone down? Tell us something we don't know. Or better yet, tell Jamaica how much better off it was in the 70s after the gun ban, because all those extra people who were murdered are so much better off because at least they weren't murdered by guns.
It is such an incredibly huge fallacy to examine crimes involving only firearms. Examine all violent crime. Whether it was a gun or a knife makes absolutely no difference at all when someone dies.
It is such an incredibly huge fallacy to examine crimes involving only firearms. Examine all violent crime. Whether it was a gun or a knife makes absolutely no difference at all when someone dies.
Das Pferd
October 12, 2004, 10:21 PM
Okay where do I eve start. I know my view is biased by the UN lady had her butt handed to her. The NRA guy obviously came prepared with facts to back up his statements. The UN lady basically used emotion like makeing the world safe, makeing our kids safe.
Moderator Question: Violent crime has risen in countries that bannned guns outright, how do you respond?
UN lady - didnt know how to answer, kept saying that isnt true, this statement is not true. She then proceed to say "its absolutely untrue that Britians are cowering behind their doors afraid........" She was not able to finish because the audience (who are British) disrupted her with mumblings, a few shouts, rubbish being called. They obviously did not agree with her statement.
NRA repsonse - In a UK paper that day, 50% leap in gun crime since the banning of guns. Australia had a 35% increase in violent crime since banning guns. He then went on to say "I asked American women this one question and now I will ask you (holds up a poster of a criminal with panty hose on his head). SHould you be allowed to shoot this rapist before he cuts your throat? 100% of the women I have asked said yes."
UN lady - women need to be protected by the police and by the government. People are not safe with guns. Haveing a gun escalates any situation your in. Stated some statistic from SOuth AMerica that said a person who uses a firearm to defend themselves is 4x more likely to be killed.
Moderator Question: Violent crime has risen in countries that bannned guns outright, how do you respond?
UN lady - didnt know how to answer, kept saying that isnt true, this statement is not true. She then proceed to say "its absolutely untrue that Britians are cowering behind their doors afraid........" She was not able to finish because the audience (who are British) disrupted her with mumblings, a few shouts, rubbish being called. They obviously did not agree with her statement.
NRA repsonse - In a UK paper that day, 50% leap in gun crime since the banning of guns. Australia had a 35% increase in violent crime since banning guns. He then went on to say "I asked American women this one question and now I will ask you (holds up a poster of a criminal with panty hose on his head). SHould you be allowed to shoot this rapist before he cuts your throat? 100% of the women I have asked said yes."
UN lady - women need to be protected by the police and by the government. People are not safe with guns. Haveing a gun escalates any situation your in. Stated some statistic from SOuth AMerica that said a person who uses a firearm to defend themselves is 4x more likely to be killed.
StandOnGuard
October 12, 2004, 10:26 PM
Would anyone be willing to make a copy? I live in Windsor, ON, and as such can't get American cable. I'd be glad to pay for the expenses.
Das Pferd
October 12, 2004, 10:28 PM
Moderator question: UN lady, you want moderate gun controll, what do you mean by moderate?
UN lady - not banning all guns. Owners need to be licensed, registered, provide that they are trained to use the weapon, certain categories of guns should be banned like rapid fire and high powered weapons, there should be a limit on the # of guns someone owns. She also added that its almost impossible to tell a bad guy from a good guy. So how do you know if a person should be a ble to own a gun or not?
NRA guy - "We are all in trouble if Miss Peters and the UN cannot tell the good guys from the bad guys." People know in their hearts that guns can and will protect them. Miss peters and the UN want a global permission slip to ban all guns, this is not a moderate view. She stated previously that gun capable of fireing over 100 meters should be banned. Produced pamphlet after pamphlet after report supporting this.
UN lady - yes she and the UN want to see a drastic reduction in the # of firearms around the world. Reduction in the hands of governments and individuals. Feels that there is a arms race between governments and individuals.
UN lady - not banning all guns. Owners need to be licensed, registered, provide that they are trained to use the weapon, certain categories of guns should be banned like rapid fire and high powered weapons, there should be a limit on the # of guns someone owns. She also added that its almost impossible to tell a bad guy from a good guy. So how do you know if a person should be a ble to own a gun or not?
NRA guy - "We are all in trouble if Miss Peters and the UN cannot tell the good guys from the bad guys." People know in their hearts that guns can and will protect them. Miss peters and the UN want a global permission slip to ban all guns, this is not a moderate view. She stated previously that gun capable of fireing over 100 meters should be banned. Produced pamphlet after pamphlet after report supporting this.
UN lady - yes she and the UN want to see a drastic reduction in the # of firearms around the world. Reduction in the hands of governments and individuals. Feels that there is a arms race between governments and individuals.
StandOnGuard
October 12, 2004, 10:32 PM
quote:
"She also added that its almost impossible to tell a bad guy from a good guy. So how do you know if a person should be a ble to own a gun or not?"
You look at his history. Until you can prove him guilty, he is innocent.
"She also added that its almost impossible to tell a bad guy from a good guy. So how do you know if a person should be a ble to own a gun or not?"
You look at his history. Until you can prove him guilty, he is innocent.
Das Pferd
October 12, 2004, 10:33 PM
Mod question: Does the NRA disagree with worldwide bans / internation treaties banning chemical weapons, landmines, and nuclear weapons?
NRA - he rejects any intrustion on the bill of rights. Landmines, chemical weapons, and nuclear weapons are not individual rights. Dont defend your home with these. Firearms not in same category, firearms are a specific tool. Firearms not indiscriminate.
UN - "Well I am happy that the NRA thinks landmines and chemical weapons are bad." What about assault weapons? There is no reason to own them. The NRA has always been unweilding on this issue. She rattles of the name of certain "assault rifles."
Mod: How do you respond to the assault rifles?
NRA - Machine guns have been regulated since the 1930's. WHat we are talking about are self loading semi automatic rifles. People like the UN try to confuse the American people and others.
NRA - he rejects any intrustion on the bill of rights. Landmines, chemical weapons, and nuclear weapons are not individual rights. Dont defend your home with these. Firearms not in same category, firearms are a specific tool. Firearms not indiscriminate.
UN - "Well I am happy that the NRA thinks landmines and chemical weapons are bad." What about assault weapons? There is no reason to own them. The NRA has always been unweilding on this issue. She rattles of the name of certain "assault rifles."
Mod: How do you respond to the assault rifles?
NRA - Machine guns have been regulated since the 1930's. WHat we are talking about are self loading semi automatic rifles. People like the UN try to confuse the American people and others.
CentralTexas
October 12, 2004, 10:33 PM
Brit in the crowd said he was a target shooter and did she want to ban that? She said sorry, times change find a hobby that doesn't use a weapon designed to kill people....
CT
CT
RavenVT100
October 12, 2004, 10:36 PM
Brit in the crowd said he was a target shooter and did she want to ban that? She said sorry, times change find a hobby that doesn't use a weapon designed to kill people....
CT
Maybe she should find a hobby that doesn't include lobbying to strip people of their basic human rights.
CT
Maybe she should find a hobby that doesn't include lobbying to strip people of their basic human rights.
Das Pferd
October 12, 2004, 10:36 PM
Mod question: Do semi automatic firearms have a legitimate role?
UN - semi automatic rifles were designed to kill people, to kill lots of people. They were designed by and for the military. No reason a citizen should own one. Talked with a hunters group in Australia, they said that only city boys hunted with a semi automatic rifle. A real hunter didnt need to. Handguns same issue. No legit reason to own one. There are legit reason for firearms like sport shooting and some hunting. You can still ban guns and be a sporting nation.
NRA - I dont remember his respone sorry, I cant read my notes.
UN - semi automatic rifles were designed to kill people, to kill lots of people. They were designed by and for the military. No reason a citizen should own one. Talked with a hunters group in Australia, they said that only city boys hunted with a semi automatic rifle. A real hunter didnt need to. Handguns same issue. No legit reason to own one. There are legit reason for firearms like sport shooting and some hunting. You can still ban guns and be a sporting nation.
NRA - I dont remember his respone sorry, I cant read my notes.
Das Pferd
October 12, 2004, 10:39 PM
Mod question: How is the NRA involved in the UN small arms process?
NRA - They oppose any weakening of the 2nd amendment. Especially oppose a club of unelected eliteists responsible to no one telling the US what they should do, telling the world what they should do.
UN - Americans need to get over our preoccupation with ourselves. Not everyone in the world is thinking about us. The UN process deals with many countries and not just the US (at this point it kind of turned into USA bashing which had nothing to do with the question). The right to life is more important then what the USA wants.
NRA - They oppose any weakening of the 2nd amendment. Especially oppose a club of unelected eliteists responsible to no one telling the US what they should do, telling the world what they should do.
UN - Americans need to get over our preoccupation with ourselves. Not everyone in the world is thinking about us. The UN process deals with many countries and not just the US (at this point it kind of turned into USA bashing which had nothing to do with the question). The right to life is more important then what the USA wants.
Richard G
October 12, 2004, 10:41 PM
Shes a crazy bitch. Dangerous too.
Go here to vote: http://www.thegundebate.com/indexA.html
Password is "gun2004".
Go here to vote: http://www.thegundebate.com/indexA.html
Password is "gun2004".
Das Pferd
October 12, 2004, 10:42 PM
At this point my hand cramped up from takeing notes. I am sure there will be a full transcript available soon and maybe even the video. Hope this helps a few people.
The rest of the debate was really about the UN lady saying how the banning of guns would help the world. NRA guy saying that hes more interested in an individual protecting themselves and not putting all our trust into government.
You HAVE to watch it if you can. There were many great points that he made.
The rest of the debate was really about the UN lady saying how the banning of guns would help the world. NRA guy saying that hes more interested in an individual protecting themselves and not putting all our trust into government.
You HAVE to watch it if you can. There were many great points that he made.
The Last Confederate
October 12, 2004, 10:52 PM
Maybe she should find a hobby that doesn't include lobbying to strip people of their basic human rights.
Amen, brother!
Amen, brother!
roscoe
October 12, 2004, 10:56 PM
(UN) Feels that there is a arms race between governments and individuals.
That is the most important, and revealing quote, in my opinion.
That is the most important, and revealing quote, in my opinion.
sekdar
October 12, 2004, 10:56 PM
Das Pferd, thanks a ton for all you've posted for us :)
mattf7184
October 13, 2004, 12:53 AM
Seems like pretty standard gun debate to me. Liberals/Commies who are emotional and logical Human Right Protectors (us).
Thanks for the notes Das Pferd :cool:
Thanks for the notes Das Pferd :cool:
PromptCritical
October 13, 2004, 03:34 AM
Two thoughts:
One, If she shows up in my front yard wearing a blue helmet, she will meet with a shower of lead.
Two, anyone in the Portland, OR area plan on watching it or have it taped? I would like to see it. I don't know anyone able to order it.
One, If she shows up in my front yard wearing a blue helmet, she will meet with a shower of lead.
Two, anyone in the Portland, OR area plan on watching it or have it taped? I would like to see it. I don't know anyone able to order it.
Norton
October 13, 2004, 04:52 AM
Does anyone have the password to participate in the poll?
71Commander
October 13, 2004, 05:26 AM
What is the nationality of the UN-lady? Anyone know?
KMKeller
October 13, 2004, 07:19 AM
She's an American born, naturalized Australian from Costa Rica.... :confused:
http://www.rense.com/general30/gfun.htm
http://www.rense.com/general30/gfun.htm
Rembrandt
October 13, 2004, 07:35 AM
Vote....and vote often.....poll asks for a password and email address, you don't need to submit your email address for the vote to register.
Go to www.thegundebate.com
PASSWORD is......gun2004
Go to www.thegundebate.com
PASSWORD is......gun2004
71Commander
October 13, 2004, 07:41 AM
No wonder she's confused.:p
Jmurman
October 13, 2004, 07:47 AM
I didnt have the ability to watch this last night. Thanks for the updates.
I CANNOT believe that the UN would EVEN think of trying to change our constitution.
F*#king Soros and his bunch of losers.:fire: :fire:
I CANNOT believe that the UN would EVEN think of trying to change our constitution.
F*#king Soros and his bunch of losers.:fire: :fire:
one-shot-one
October 13, 2004, 08:17 AM
password = Gun2004
RavenVT100
October 13, 2004, 08:55 AM
If these people gave a flying fsck about people dying, they'd be in Africa right now helping out with the AIDS problem, not trying to rid Middle America of a bunch of firearms that aren't even widely used in global conflict.
Dave R
October 13, 2004, 09:43 AM
Here is the truly scary part. One of the poll questions is:
Should the United States Senate support the proposed United Nations treaty that bans ownership of guns?
If we wind up with the Democrats in control of the Senate in November, that is a distinct possiblity. There is nothing Schumer, Feinstein, Kennedy, Kerry, etc. would like more than to "bring the US in line with the rest of the world.
Should the United States Senate support the proposed United Nations treaty that bans ownership of guns?
If we wind up with the Democrats in control of the Senate in November, that is a distinct possiblity. There is nothing Schumer, Feinstein, Kennedy, Kerry, etc. would like more than to "bring the US in line with the rest of the world.
Sungun09
October 13, 2004, 09:49 AM
I'm sure we are of one mind here. I've said it before and I will say it again;
When was the last time you dropped a line to your favorite politician ?
When was the last time you donated money to the NRA GOA etc... etc..
Sorry if I sound like a broken record but gee whiz /... we' vote AND we're ARMED.
Oh, and the UN can go XXXX themselves. Impotent ba$*****.
When was the last time you dropped a line to your favorite politician ?
When was the last time you donated money to the NRA GOA etc... etc..
Sorry if I sound like a broken record but gee whiz /... we' vote AND we're ARMED.
Oh, and the UN can go XXXX themselves. Impotent ba$*****.
Michigander
October 13, 2004, 08:15 PM
UN- ... The right to life is more important then what the USA wants. Does this mean she is against abortion?
HABU
October 13, 2004, 11:26 PM
Does this mean she is against abortion?
Of course not, she is a liberal.:banghead:
Of course not, she is a liberal.:banghead:
mcneill
October 14, 2004, 03:33 PM
quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------
(UN) Feels that there is a arms race between governments and individuals.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like I need to buy more guns.:neener:
DasFerd - Thanks for the posts.
Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------
(UN) Feels that there is a arms race between governments and individuals.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like I need to buy more guns.:neener:
DasFerd - Thanks for the posts.
Jim
Stickjockey
October 15, 2004, 10:03 PM
PropmtCritical, if you find a copy floating around the PDX area, could you let me know? I'd like to see it myself.
Don Gwinn
October 16, 2004, 12:37 AM
"There is an arms race between governments and citizens. . . . ."
. . . . . which problem we propose to solve by allowing the governments to overwhelm the citizens. There won't be any dangerous, nasty old arms race if the citizens give up and accept that they're simply not going to be in charge!
:banghead:
Well, I've never heard it stated so eloquently and with such compassion before. Since you put it that way, maybe you should turn it sideways and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Have a nice day. :)
. . . . . which problem we propose to solve by allowing the governments to overwhelm the citizens. There won't be any dangerous, nasty old arms race if the citizens give up and accept that they're simply not going to be in charge!
:banghead:
Well, I've never heard it stated so eloquently and with such compassion before. Since you put it that way, maybe you should turn it sideways and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Have a nice day. :)
MAKOwner
October 16, 2004, 02:22 AM
Here's a bittorrent link to download it if you guys have BT: http://24.250.200.239:6969/
Somebody on AR15.com set that up I believe...
Unless I'm just really biased Wayne Lapierre or however you spell it seemed to do a good job and beat the crud outta that lady didn't he?
Oh BTW, I wouldn't hotlink over to that voting page, they'd probably notice a few thousand hits from a gunboard... And they probably record the IP of the voters, dupes probably thrown out. I'd be curious to see valid numbers anyway...
Somebody on AR15.com set that up I believe...
Unless I'm just really biased Wayne Lapierre or however you spell it seemed to do a good job and beat the crud outta that lady didn't he?
Oh BTW, I wouldn't hotlink over to that voting page, they'd probably notice a few thousand hits from a gunboard... And they probably record the IP of the voters, dupes probably thrown out. I'd be curious to see valid numbers anyway...
ssr
October 18, 2004, 09:45 PM
I just finished watching it and it cut off right at the end as the guy was about to give the password! ***!!
He said " And the password you need is.." And then the cable network shut it off!
Anyway, I thought Wayne did a good job.
He said " And the password you need is.." And then the cable network shut it off!
Anyway, I thought Wayne did a good job.
nico
October 18, 2004, 10:14 PM
only 66mb? How long was the debate? I'm downloading it now btw and will keep seeding for at least a few days.
for those of you who don't know about bittorrent, here's (http://pingpong-abc.sourceforge.net/) a good client. You download the program at that link, then just click on any link for a torrent flie and it will download automatically.
for those of you who don't know about bittorrent, here's (http://pingpong-abc.sourceforge.net/) a good client. You download the program at that link, then just click on any link for a torrent flie and it will download automatically.
Silent-Snail
October 19, 2004, 02:29 AM
Feels that there is a arms race between governments and individuals
The way things have a good chance of going if kerry gets elected(God forbid) an arms race may be just what the doctor ordered:evil:
The way things have a good chance of going if kerry gets elected(God forbid) an arms race may be just what the doctor ordered:evil:
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