Wiley Clapps article. "Lets Clean House" Guns and Ammo magazine..


PDA






makdaddy03
February 24, 2003, 06:00 PM
Interesting article. But sort of ticked me off.:fire:
Mr Clapp has the following rated as thumbs down.
25acp.
32acp
380acp
38Super
10mm
32 Long Colt
32 H&R Mag.
38S&W
41Mag.:cuss:
45 Long Colt
Mr Clapp your getting on my bad side:cuss:

If you enjoyed reading about "Wiley Clapps article. "Lets Clean House" Guns and Ammo magazine.." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Dave R
February 24, 2003, 06:10 PM
Well, then, I guess ol' Wiley won't be getting a Kel-Tec P-3AT. That may leave one for me...

Blackhawk
February 24, 2003, 06:11 PM
So, how about posting Wiley's article...?

He must have given some rationale for his conclusions.

makdaddy03
February 24, 2003, 06:25 PM
Just go to the Guns and Ammo site. Look under ammo.

ahadams
February 24, 2003, 06:53 PM
but it seems to me they publish an article like this every few years...shoot I can even remember one from sometime in the 70's that claimed that the minor calibers the author didn't like were 'dead'. Sometimes I think this is one of those topics gun writers do an article on whenever they can't think of anything else to write about.

Pendragon
February 24, 2003, 07:00 PM
I think the free market wil always do a better job of deciding which calibers have run their course.

I want a big bore revolver soon - woulf like a .454, .480 or .500, but will probably get .45LC because it will do what I need it to do...

DeltaElite
February 24, 2003, 07:38 PM
Wiley Coyote gives better advice.
The 10mm is the best. :D

Old Fuff
February 24, 2003, 07:40 PM
Ammunition Companies are in business to sell .... cartridges. So long as there are enough firearms around to create a market they'll keep making ammunition to fit. None of those on the list are going to go away very soon.

Steve Smith
February 24, 2003, 07:42 PM
Wiley has said some...well...interesting things. I don't really care for what he has to say anyway.

jsalcedo
February 24, 2003, 07:46 PM
www.gunsandammomag.com/ammunition/lets_clean_house/

CZ-75
February 24, 2003, 08:11 PM
.357 SIG is a keeper???????? But not the very flexible and more powerful 10mm :rolleyes:

Or that .44spl is a keeper, but not .45 Colt or .41 Mag. :rolleyes:



I agree that .32 revolver rounds, .38S&W, and .25ACP are past their usefulness.

Still, let the market decide.

jsalcedo
February 24, 2003, 08:24 PM
I don't like the attitude of Wileys article but it seems controversy sells magazines.

His attitude about certain cartridges is like saying we have too many brands of toilet paper on the market or there are too many
useless choices of canned corn.

What does Wiley plan to do about it?

He states that these cartridges are useless but he doesn't advocate ammo companies from discontinuing loading them.

What does he really want?

I think he can be likened to a Usenet troll who is looking to stir up trouble.

Robby from Long Island
February 24, 2003, 09:00 PM
While I have always respected Wiley Clapp's opinion, one has to remember, it's still just one mans opinion.

I seriously doubt if it will have any impact on the average handgun owner's personal preference in caliber choices.

Feel Mr. Clapp's article simply reflected statistics that could have been provided by various gun and ammunition manufacturers.

Just one mans opinion.:)

Safe shooting.

M58
February 24, 2003, 09:16 PM
What a crock...!
One of Wiley's favorite photos is with a .41 mag.
Gun rag mostly bag of water carbon based life like imitation of sentient entity...:neener:

Standing Wolf
February 24, 2003, 09:48 PM
Well, I guess that settles that—unless, of course, it doesn't.

Rangie
February 24, 2003, 09:52 PM
"If you keep the bullet weights at that level in both guns, a .357 SIG auto will whip a 4-inch .357 Magnum revolver by a goodly margin."

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

El Tejon
February 24, 2003, 10:29 PM
Guys, who did this before? Wasn't it Askins?

[El Tejon stomping off to the Bibletoka Barsooka, stomping back]

Yep, here it is. Col. Charles Askins, "Current Cartridges: Progress or Put-Off?" in Guns & Ammo, November 1977. See Peter Hathaway Capstick, DEATH IN A LONELY LAND 191 (1990) (citing Col. Askins article).

Not only are gun rags dangerous in that they show the eager to learn all the wrong things, but they rehash the old rubbish. I don't know if new blood will solve this or just let the market decide.

Dean Speir
February 24, 2003, 10:56 PM
Not only are gun rags dangerous in that they show the eager to learn all the wrong things, but they rehash the old rubbish. You, sir, are a man after my own black heart!

What's really really really needed, of course, are more critical thinkers among the readership.

capnrik
February 24, 2003, 11:24 PM
For remembering Cheerless Charlie Askins.

Askins first endeared himself to me by informing me that the Colt's Single Action Army that cost me two months rent was in fact, as obsolete and useless as a kerosene lantern.

He suggested that anyone silly enough to own such an artifact might also elect to travel only by horse or coal-fired train.

Then he pronounced the 1911 pistol as ready for the rubbish bin, and insisted that he had recently been to "the combat zone" and viewed two enemy soldiers killed by a .45ACP. He waxed eloquently about "massive overkill" and assured me that anyone shooting anything besides a 9mm double action autoloader was an idiot.

I don't miss you Charlie.

I miss Rusty Annabel and Corey Ford and Skeeter Skelton. I wish you youngsters could enjoy the humor of Ed Zern, or Patrick McManus. And I wish there was someone fit to carry Jack O'Connor's lunch.

Wiley Clapp won't talk me out of my Colt's Single Action Army .45.

It has already been tried.

Hardtarget
February 24, 2003, 11:48 PM
I think that kind of article is written just to raise a little controversy. That gives the Rags...I mean Mags, a kind of barometer to judge whether "anyone is out there". So, I agree...bunch of hog wash. Cartridges hang around as long as shooters vote with cash. They don't dissappear just because some writer has brain fade. Thats my nickles worth...(inflation).
Mark.

opus1776
February 25, 2003, 12:04 AM
from ahadams: "but it seems to me they publish an article like this every few years..."

If you go back about two years in G&A, I believe that this is the EXACT same article that was published previously. It looks reaalllly familiar to me...... :confused:

Blackhawk
February 25, 2003, 12:06 AM
Actually, old Wiley is just expressing his opinions about the cartridges, just like we do here on THR and did on TFL.

Difference is basically that he got G&A to pay him for his and we just give ours away.... :D

CZ-75
February 25, 2003, 12:15 AM
9mm vs. .45 -- Which is better?

Semi or Revolver? Which One should You Own?





Have I left out any of the gun rag controversies?

MCNETT
February 25, 2003, 12:25 AM
Wiley Clapp is an old stick in the mud! I can't think of a reason why anyone would want to "wash their hands" of any cartridge. The more the merrier!
-Mike

cheygriz
February 25, 2003, 01:13 AM
Just proves what I've said all along. Most of the so-called gun writers are idiots! And IMHO, Wiley Clapp is one of the worst.

And before the flames start, I said IMHO!

Bruce in West Oz
February 25, 2003, 01:38 AM
Well, some of the cartridges he dismisses are about to get a sales boost here in Australia, because anything OVER .38 has been banned except for "special circumstances" and with Police Commissioner's authorisation.

BigDeeeeeeee
February 25, 2003, 02:40 AM
I geuss I'll go throw my Glock 29 off a bridge then.:rolleyes:

mrstang01
February 26, 2003, 12:50 PM
Let's not get our knickers in a twist, Clapp is now advocating the .44 special which just a year or two ago he declared obsolete. Can you say he just wants to sell a rag or two?

Stevie-Ray
February 26, 2003, 10:13 PM
Hogwash. Since G&A has Clapp, I guess it's good I let my subscription lapse. Don't want any part of that.

ahadams
February 26, 2003, 10:43 PM
to opus1776: yeah man - it's like deja vu all over again! :D

maybe we should start a thread on 'hack gun magazine articles'...you all know what I mean - the stuff you see over and over and over and over. why if we wanted to, we could probably come up with a couple of years worth of stuff suitable to be printed in those glossy mags that end all of the sentences on their covers with an exclamation point, and start our own THR journal or something!:D :D

slightly off topic response to capnrick's post.

I lived in rural AZ through most of the 1980's (between Mustang Corners and Tombstone, to be exact). We had some problems with drug mules (i.e. illegals hired to haul drugs) using some of the washes and such through our area. Nastiest firefight I ever heard (sadly I wasn't asked to help) was a bunch of ranch hands who jumped a couple of drug smugglers. the drug smugglers discovered that handguns didn't mean a whole lot in that environment.

anyway at one point a DEA agent came down to serve a warrant on one of the trailers out in the middle of nowhere in the next township. Out of courtesy, the DEA guy stopped and contacted the Sheriff, who in turn told him to talk to the township marshal. The marshal was an old guy who'd retired from the local sheriff's dept and just because he liked it (and was good with it) carried an SAA. The DEA guy was carrying what was known at the time as a 'wondernine' - 9mm with a hicap mag. Anyway the DEA guy says to the marshall "old timer you shouldn't be carrying that thing - why you've only got five shots and then it takes you all day to reload".

To which the township marshall replied "Son, after I fire this thing five times, I HAVE all day to reload!".

leastwise, that's the way I heard it. :D

Tamara
February 27, 2003, 01:36 AM
Soon my "Random Word Generator Automated Gunzine Article Writer" will be perfected, and then the flowered-shirt crowd better get tight with their local outplacement counselors.

(After I get another truckload of "Ultimate!"s in, it'll write cover blurbs, too. ;) )

JMLV
February 27, 2003, 09:37 AM
So does this mean you can't have a 357 magnum either? Or is that OK? How about the speciality single shot guns like the contender is a 45/70 contender allowed? on now illegal? Just wondering what crap you folks have to deal with.
If only 38's are allowed I would get my hands on a S&W heavy duty 38(an N frame 38 special revolver) and load my own HOT(357 levels) 38's.

Coronach
February 27, 2003, 10:14 AM
Well, lets face it, the article is more for amusement than anything else. It even proceeds from a false assumption:

The idea is to evaluate them in the light of current realistic needs and the guns available to shoot them. Our goal is to thin the herd and get the population down to healthier and more manageable proportions.

Like it is unhealthy to have a plethora of caliber choices. Sure, if we were somehow magically limited to 10 calibers for handguns (Sarah Brady, you did not just read that...go smoke a cigarette or something), such a selection process might be in order. But we're not. So, lets let the market decide what is useless and what is not, no?

Mike

Coronach
February 27, 2003, 10:22 AM
Plus, his logic is troubling. .38 Spl AND .357 magnum are thumbs up? Can you not load .357 Magnum down to .38spl ballistics? So, why keep the .38 spl? I mean, if you're gonna clean house, clean house. Quit screw'n around.

Note that this was kinda the same logic that earned the 10mm a thumbs down...it can be and often is downloaded to .40S&W ballistics, so its useless. Uhm...ok, if you're going to write a silly article with a false premise, at least be consistant in your so-called logic.

Feh.

Mike

seeker_two
February 27, 2003, 10:47 AM
Soon my "Random Word Generator Automated Gunzine Article Writer" will be perfected...

I think G&A created that already. Jan Libourel & David Arnold's gun reviews read like a fill-in-the-blank form letter...:barf:

DAL
February 27, 2003, 12:15 PM
Wiley Clapp needs to clean his own house out, starting with his diet. Why the heck are so many gun writers lardos?

Now, as far as what he writes, who cares?
DAL

P.S. If the above offends anyone, get over it.

JMLV
February 27, 2003, 01:23 PM
whats his weight got to do with shooting a handgun. Unless he has to jump around like a monkey for the odd IPSC match who cares? (besides you apprently) Personal attacks just becouse you don't like his writting are just rude. You gonna say something about his mother next? Criticue the mans writting all you want lets leave the personal attacks to the playground where they belong. Remember fat people shoot back too.

seeker_two
February 27, 2003, 01:27 PM
Why the heck are so many gun writers lardos?

And how many gun magazine articles do the Swedish Bikini Team write?...:scrutiny:

I'll take fat & polite over skinny & uncouth anyday...:cuss:

Bruce in West Oz
February 28, 2003, 01:05 AM
"ANYTHING OVER 38 IS NO LONGER ALLOWED"

So does this mean you can't have a 357 magnum either? Or is that OK? How about the speciality single shot guns like the contender is a 45/70 contender allowed? on now illegal? Just wondering what crap you folks have to deal with.

If only 38's are allowed I would get my hands on a S&W heavy duty 38(an N frame 38 special revolver) and load my own HOT(357 levels) 38's.

Mate, we're still not sure yet, because the Prime Miniature ... errr ... Minister hasn't said what he's going to allow us. Yes, you read that correctly. Sound like a dictatorship?? Mmmmmmm, yes, it does, doesn't it. And no, we can't impeach our PM, although he can be fired by the Governor-General (happened in 75). I'm pretty confident .357s will be allowed, however.

The blanket rule is nothing over .38 calibre -- period. However, special permission can be sought and may be granted by police ministers for .45 cal, for use in approved match types only. So, for example, the single action mob may be allowed to keep their .45s; metallic handgun silhouette may be able to keep specialty single shot handguns, up to .45. IPSC I don't know.

Only one state, Victoria, has yet introduced its new legislation in response to this. It contains a couple of nasty little surprises for shooters:

• own more than 5 handguns and your home will have to have a 24/7/365 monitored security system fitted

• requirement to shoot competitively 10 times a year to maintain licence, or (I think) if you own 3 or more handguns, you have to shoot each 4 times a year competitively

• visitors to the range are no longer allowed to have a couple of shots with a handgun to try it out -- will have to buy (in advance) a 7-day permit from the police and have a background check. This absolute lunacy will halve the number of new shooters coming into the sport -- which is what it's designed to do, of course. :fire:

This is the type of cr@p we have to put up with.

JMLV
February 28, 2003, 11:02 AM
Until July of 2002 I lived in NJ and had to deal with the crap that state threw at us. I finually got tired of fighting a losing battle (for 2nd amd rights in a massivly liberal state) and left. I now live in PA where the atmosphere is much better. We still have to fight for our rights against corept politions but at least here we have a chance (and we have many times) winning. Jersey was and is a lost cause. JMHO. Good luck to you. You will need it.

DAL
February 28, 2003, 01:54 PM
seeker_two and JMLV, you are both absolutely correct, I was off the mark with my remark about the man's weight "problem" (to use a PC term). I, like both of you, no doubt, have my pet peeves (biases, if you will), and gluttonous behavior tops my list. Sometimes it obscures my better judgement, at least temporarily.

Take care, and a hearty appetite to one and all!
DAL

If you enjoyed reading about "Wiley Clapps article. "Lets Clean House" Guns and Ammo magazine.." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!