AR-15, 1911 are very similar, yet very different


PDA






natedog
October 14, 2004, 11:45 PM
I was thinking (WARINING) about it, and came to reason that the 1911 and AR-15 are very, very similar yet very different at the same time

1) Twoblink hates them both with a passion :D
2) Both are Colt designs
3) Both have served with distinction in the military
4) Both have huge civilian popularity
5) Most popular competition pistol/longarm
6) Both are still favored by elite units
7) Both are cloned and copied all over the world
8) Both have huge choice of smiths and parts

1) Besides obvious things ilke the AR-15 is a rifle, 1911 is a pistol...
2) 1911 is a remnant of 19th Century thought of what a cavalry pistol should be
3) 1911 relies on old school of though- big, heavy slow bullet
4) ar-15- new school of thought in small arms (lighter weapon, lighter ammo, massed fire, etc), and small, fast bullet
5) AR-15 utilizes new manufacturing techniqes, plastics, aluminum
6) 1911 is still good ol blued steel

If you enjoyed reading about "AR-15, 1911 are very similar, yet very different" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Mulliga
October 15, 2004, 12:02 AM
Both are Colt designs

Stoner-Fremont-Sullivan. ;)

natedog
October 15, 2004, 12:07 AM
OK, maybe not Colt designs originally (Browning and Stoner, right? With some Johnson thrown in on the AR-15...), but both were originally produced and sold by Colt.

Standing Wolf
October 15, 2004, 12:32 AM
They're both in inadequate calibers. They're both ugly.

twoblink
October 15, 2004, 12:56 AM
1) Twoblink hates them both with a passion
As I do Microsoft..

2) Both are Colt designs
Means that Colt has a reputation for inferior designs.

3) Both have served with distinction in the military
So has Microsoft..

4) Both have huge civilian popularity
So is Microsoft..

5) Most popular competition pistol/longarm
So is Microsoft

6) Both are still favored by elite units
So is Microsoft

7) Both are cloned and copied all over the world
So is Microsoft (Anybody wanna buy an XP CD from me for $1.99??)

8) Both have huge choice of smiths and parts
So does Microsoft


1) Besides obvious things ilke the AR-15 is a rifle, 1911 is a pistol...
2) 1911 is a remnant of 19th Century thought of what a cavalry pistol should be
So is Microsoft

3) 1911 relies on old school of though- big, heavy slow bullet
So is Microsoft, big, and slow

4) ar-15- new school of thought in small arms (lighter weapon, lighter ammo,
massed fire, etc), and small, fast bullet
What XP is suppose to be..

5) AR-15 utilizes new manufacturing techniqes, plastics, aluminum
What XP is suppose to be..

6) 1911 is still good ol blued steel
OK, agree there...

So basically, you are telling me, that the 1911 and the AR's are the microsofts of the gunworld. Agree 100%....

oh, ooops.. I use BSD and Linux...

Andrew Wyatt
October 15, 2004, 01:30 AM
nono. HK is the Microsoft of the gun world. (expensive, closed source, single source of manufacturing)


1911s and ar-15s are Unix/linux (because they're open source, have a wide variety of parts available, are open souce and can be had from a wide variety of sources.)

BluesBear
October 15, 2004, 01:58 AM
Don't forget that the 1911/1911A1 is the longest used sidearm in US Military history. 70+ years as general issue.

The M16 platform is the longest used rifle in US Military history. 40 years

The only other weapon in general issue use by the US Military this long that I can think of is the Browning M2 .50cal machine gun.

I wonder is any other weapons will ever achieve this longevity?
As good of a gun as it is, I just can't imagine the Beretta 9mm being issued in 2050.

The real similiarities between the 1911 and the M16 are longevity and adapability. For better or worse they work. They do what they were designed to do.

Tamara
October 15, 2004, 06:43 AM
1) Twoblink hates them both with a passion :D

Given how he rates guns, that's practically an endorsement. ;)

Zach S
October 15, 2004, 08:02 AM
That was a little below the belt. Good hit though:D

twoblink
October 15, 2004, 08:23 AM
Tamara, you know I'm just not buying AR's and 1911's so you have more choices right? :uhoh:

FPrice
October 15, 2004, 08:38 AM
"1911 is a remnant of 19th Century thought of what a cavalry pistol should be

So is Microsoft"

So THAT'S why Custer was defeated at the Little Big Horn. If he had been running UNIX on his logistics computer he would have brought the Gatling guns along and saved the day.

WOW! I'm glad we finally settled that one.

Kharn
October 15, 2004, 10:19 AM
Both meant to be carried cocked and locked. :)

Kharn

jefnvk
October 15, 2004, 11:06 AM
They're both ugly.

Hey Now! The 1911 is the finest looking pistol out there.

Chipperman
October 15, 2004, 12:16 PM
Comparing HK to Microsoft is silly, because HK's WORK when they are supposed to!!

:D

Andrew Wyatt
October 15, 2004, 12:32 PM
maybe glock would be a better comparison. they release "Updates" every two weeks.

SnakeEater
October 15, 2004, 12:44 PM
You forgot that neither one has a stellar reputation for reliability:D

Flame suit on, it was only a joke.

tyme
October 15, 2004, 05:18 PM
The more I hear about 1911s, the more it seems like the only thing that's not bad for them is shooting them. Anything else—dry firing, releasing the slide, inserting or removing magazines, laying them down, picking them up, you name it—causes them to break or at least "go out of tune." I'm sure that field stripping is equally as bad if not much worse.
-- sigfreund, on sigforum.com
:)

Standing Wolf
October 15, 2004, 06:15 PM
The 1911 is the finest looking pistol out there.

Even its mother grimaces and winces when she sees it come indoors.

Bainx
October 15, 2004, 06:32 PM
Twoblink, you tryin' to talk me out of buying an AR?

Now that the thing has sunset and gone away?
Now that I can at last get a bayonet lug and flash-hider on it?
Now that I can almost accept the wimpy round?
What kind of logic is this?

natedog
October 15, 2004, 07:34 PM
Looks are subjective.

Ian
October 15, 2004, 08:19 PM
The 1911 is like Microsoft? As you nuts? There's hardly a gun out there more analogous to *nix!

The 1911 is made by a myriad of companies in a myriad of variations, including some trying to mimic the other option (DA hi-caps). *nix is the same way (including some versions that try to mimic the GUI and simplicity of MS).

The schematics of the 1911 design are easily available, and any knowledgable person with a CNC mill can make their own in any form they want (including brand new developments).

The 1911 is made of old-fashioned steel, having rejected the popular new lightweight materials. Similarly, *nix builds rely on text config files, having rejected the popular new graphical configuration utilities.

The 1911 can be quickly and very simply set up to fire 11 different cartridges from .22 to .460 Rowland (.22, 9x19, 9x21, 9x23, .38 Super, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, .400 CorBon, .45 ACP, .45 Super, .460 Rowland). They can also be had in 3", 3.5", 4", 5", and 6" - as well as with clearances for competition bullseye, field reliability, or anywhere in between. Like *nix, the 1911 is exceedingly customizeable, and well-known as a connoisseur's pistol.

Like *nix, it can sometimes (often?) take some work to get a 1911 functioning like it ought to.

The AR-15, on the other hand, has at least one major characteristic that is much like MS:

It has a significantly flawed core design, which has not been changed, but rather patched continually until something mostly reliable is bodged together.

zpo
October 15, 2004, 08:23 PM
6) Both are still favored by elite units
So is Microsoft

I doubt Japan's Earth Simulator is running XP.

The only elite units running windows spell it 733t.

Tamara
October 15, 2004, 09:55 PM
Clever quote from sigforums, even if it has zip to do with reality.

I'll call you if I need software consulting. I'll call twoblink if I need any Chinese-speakers taught English as a second language. If y'all have any gun questions, give me a ring. If I can't answer it, I'll scare up someone who can. ;) :p :eek:


*breathe in* *breathe out* *find my happy place*

Okay, sorry...

Look, I know we're on a gun board and we're all a bunch of happy hobbyists discussing our preferences, and everybody's views have equal validity. Still, though...

I do this for a living. I do this for a hobby. I do this as a passion. I'd like to think that in almost two decades of collecting and over a decade of doing it for a living, I might have latched onto a stray fact or two. Yeah, sometimes I get snippy. When, for the thousandth time, some new user with a birthdate roughly coinciding with my sophomore year in high school, who has owned fewer guns in their life than I've misplaced in the last week, tells me how it really is, then my inner cranky old biddy chews its way to the surface and runs screaming about the room. Maybe its because it's such a painful reminder of how I was ten years ago, when I had the keys to the front door of the Church of Tactical Truth, I don't know...

Anyhow, I apologize for the outburst, but it was a tension breaker, and had to be done... ;)

Wildalaska
October 15, 2004, 10:02 PM
I'll call you if I need software consulting. I'll call twoblink if I need any Chinese-speakers taught English as a second language. If y'all have any gun questions, give me a ring.

Ouch even the smilies dont take away the sting of that one

WildwantstobeamaleTamarabutprobablyoughttolose30poundsfirstAlaska

Andrew Wyatt
October 16, 2004, 12:10 AM
WildwantstobeamaleTamarabutprobablyoughttolose30poundsfirstAlaska


...that's just icky.

Wildalaska
October 16, 2004, 12:27 AM
When, for the thousandth time, some new user with a birthdate roughly coinciding with my sophomore year in high school, who has owned fewer guns in their life than I've misplaced in the last week, tells me how it really is, then my inner cranky old biddy chews its way to the surface and runs screaming about the room.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha.............

Gee and I get in trouble for doing that all the time:D

WildImfeedingtheinnerbitchattheexpenseofhtehighschoolcrowdAlaska

PS

that's just icky.

Ya aint seen my patented Silence of the Lambs Dance I guess :)

zpo
October 16, 2004, 12:30 AM
eewww...

BluesBear
October 16, 2004, 04:43 AM
When, for the thousandth time, some new user with a birthdate roughly coinciding with my senior year in college, who has personally held fewer guns in their lifetime than I have owned, tells me how it really is, then my inner @$$#%!& chews its way to the surface and runs screaming out the door.

Once again, thanks to Miss T, and Mr Wild, I am comforted to know I am not alone in my feelings.


BluesProudToHave Earned The TitleCurmudgeonBear

-------------------------------
"Small dogs and children should be kept on leashes." W.C. Fields

tyme
October 16, 2004, 08:36 AM
Since AR-15s jam when sand is still over the horizon, I guess that makes both the 1911 and the AR-15 underpowered and unreliable. That's sarcasm, just like the previous quote.

Oh, and one more reason they're both like microsoft: all three have the potential to kill people. http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/july13/cov2.htm (yeah, it's old, but MS software hasn't gotten much better, and their sales department would still love to sell windows to people needing mission-critical software... which windows is not.)

I'd conclude with a call for "Peace," except I don't want to sound like David Cobb, aka Mr. Garrison.

If you enjoyed reading about "AR-15, 1911 are very similar, yet very different" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!