Help me choose a battle rifle


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zpo
October 15, 2004, 08:31 PM
Yes, I know there are tons of these, but I'm lazy, and just need responses that deal with fal mags. Because I already bought them. No gun. Hence thread. What are my options for rifles that take fal mags. (metric) And just posting

FAL

does not qualify. I don't know the names and reps of the variants and clones, and the prices, so, I would like that info. The big show is coming up in Tulsa, and I would like to have a .308 rifle, has to take fal mags, just would like to know all the options, what to look for when purchasing, things to avoid, and such. Thanks for playing along.

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Jack19
October 15, 2004, 08:46 PM
Sorry but...

FAL (duh!) by DSA or any of a host of after market builders who do excellent work.

and,

The Bushmaster A2 or A3 in .308.

Depends on what platform you like.

MrMurphy
October 15, 2004, 10:29 PM
DSA arms is the way to go.

zpo
October 15, 2004, 10:39 PM
Expensive. Are there any decent mil-surp or quality knock offs?

G.I.Jew
October 15, 2004, 11:28 PM
CMP M1

zpo
October 15, 2004, 11:47 PM
<sarcasm> Hmmm... <sarcasm>

zpo
October 16, 2004, 12:00 AM
Some more info if it'll help. It doesn't have to be a tack driver, it does have to be inexpensive, I'm not recoil sensitive, and I'm thinking it should probably take metric FAL mags, just on principle. DSA is nice, but its a "you get what you pay for" outfit. Its nice because the cheapest rifles start at a grand. I'm looking for a "diamond in the ruff" kind of rifle, one that compared to its peers is worth having over them, but I can still stay "in the ruff" price wise. Oh, and maybe if it was in .308, like something that takes FAL mags.

captain obvious
October 16, 2004, 01:08 AM
If you do your homework (or build the rifle yourself), some of the imbel recievered FALs aren't bad at all. I bought an imbel G1 Clone FAL that was put together by a military armorer, and I love it. I wouldn't trade it for any DSA FAL...

...Except maybe for the DSA T48 remake:D

threefeathers
October 16, 2004, 02:59 PM
I have them all but in your case I would go with the CMP M-1. If I am in a shtf situation I will take my M-1 in the truck, my HBAR in the turck. My M-1 carbine so my wife can use it. In it's case will be my Morrison Precision Savage but this is a specialty weapon.

If I had just one it would be the M-1. 8 30 cal rounds fast. Use at distance or close, ity will take down all game if necessary.

zpo
October 16, 2004, 08:40 PM
Wow. Thank you all for the help, but I would like to keep the thread pointed in the direction of, say, oh, maybe something that uses FAL MAGS.

wasrjoe
October 16, 2004, 08:46 PM
Sell your FAL mags so you can actually have a decent selection of rifles. How many did you buy? 100?

zpo
October 16, 2004, 08:52 PM
Nope, just 12. I already have an AR, a k-31, a marlin 336, a ruger bolt in .243, and a M-1 is on the list, but thats not what this post is about. Its about something that takes FAL mags. Ohio Rapid fire makes a 550 dollar fal, but they are out of stock. The gun show is coming up, and I would like some info about FAL's and variants and clones that are good quality. Thats it. Thats why there is the limit of FAL mags. Its just about this specific rifle "want". Fal files takes forever for a response, and THR has the quickest response time of the two forums I visit the most. (TFL is the other)

cracked butt
October 16, 2004, 09:01 PM
Sell the mags and buy an M1- it doesn't need any silly mags.;)

zpo
October 16, 2004, 09:02 PM
My head hurts.....

Gewehr98
October 16, 2004, 09:34 PM
FAL mags are fairly cheap, on the order of $5.00-$10.00 each (TAPCO). Sell them, and use the money to buy either a CETME or HK91 clone. That way you're not spending the money you would on a FAL, nor are you paying as much as an M1A/M14 variant. ;)

goon
October 16, 2004, 09:46 PM
I just had my ORF out today and she performed just fine. It has had some problems in the past but I am getting them ironed out. To be fair, they did fix the first problem and Todd told me to send it back if I couldn't get the ejection problem ironed out, but I fixed it myself. I didn't want to be without my rifle. A new STG 58 extractor, along with the tool (which is well worth the $25), and I haven't had any jams since.
It is a good thing because I was losing my patience with it. I was about ready to just send it back to them and tell them where to stuff it.:what:
I also added a DSA semi auto selector switch so I wouldn't keep flipping the safety down to the FA position. The rifle doesn't do anyting different there and definitely won't go FA, but it was a PITA to me so I changed it. Money well spent IMO.
If you are willing to maybe put a little effort into making an ORF work for you, it would be a good choice. I have read about others' ORF FALs and it appears that problems are few with them, but still, I thought I should tell you about mine. But ORF does have a 1 year warranty and they will fix any problems. Have to give them credit for customer service.
As I said, it is running great now with Portugese and Austrailian ammo, as well as some 165gr Speer BTSP over 43 grains of 748 in surplus Cavim cases. I have some Lake City cases that I am gonna load up and see what I can do with them when I get the chance. It has also worked with other handloads that I have tried in it, but I try to step down 308 loads to about as powerful as 7.62 Nato so I don't abuse the gas system.
Other than that, I would love to try the new Bushmaster .308 that takes FAL mags, but they are expensive. Really, if you already have the mags for a FAL, you have sort of made your choice. If you bought them, you must have wanted a FAL, so you should check them out.
I have been thinking about using my FAL to finance one of the new AIA Enfields at some point, but I am not solid on that yet. It just isn't quite what I had envisioned. It isn't the equal of my M-39 in terms of accuracy at longer ranges, and compared to the mimimal maintenance that my AK needs to work the FAL does seem more complex. But I guess it has served all over the world, so I can't say anything bad about them. I will tell you that it is one hell of a feeling when you are looking through the sights and putting accurate fire on target as fast as you can reacquire and squeeze the trigger. MBR's = Very cool in my book.

Really though, I just sort of prefer a bolt action, so don't take my critisizms to heart. I buy, trade, and sell a whole lot of guns when I can afford to, and I really only keep the few that are truly perfect for me. Since I got out of the Army in 2000, I have bought and sold about 20 guns of all types and calibers. That isn't alot to some, but to me it is.
To date, I have kept three because of sentimental value, and three because they are truly perfect for me. I have a couple that are sort of in limbo. They could go at any time if I find something that works better for me or if I have some sort of financial difficulty.
That is just how I am. I just don't see the point in keeping something when you can have another gun that works better for you.

If you want a FAL, you should buy one. Don't settle for something else because you will never be completely satisfied with it. Think it over hard and buy what YOU want.:cool:

zpo
October 16, 2004, 09:54 PM
Yeah, I was gonna get a FAL from Ohio Rapid Fire, but they been out of stock, waiting for shipment for a while now. With the show coming up, I was hoping there was something else decent I could buy that used the same mags.

http://www.ohiorapidfire.com/fal.htm

goon
October 16, 2004, 10:00 PM
Things have a way of turning up at gunshows. I know that they have been out of stock for awhile, but you still might be able to find a dealer that has one waiting to be bought or maybe a used one.
Still worth looking for IMO.
From what I have read, DSA also makes a very good FAL. Probably even better than mine.

zpo
October 16, 2004, 10:04 PM
If I find a FAL that I can afford, I'll get it, I was just looking for info that might open up my options. After all, I'm more likely to find a rifle if I'm looking for several types that fit my criteria, than just one make or model. Lots of guns are made to take AR mags, I was looking for the rifles for the mags I already got.

crewzer
October 16, 2004, 10:07 PM
If you purchased the mags for $10ea and can sell them for the same, by the HK91 Clone from www.southernohiogun.com for $376.00 and the mags are $4.95ea. The cheapest FAL copy you were looking at was almost $600.00 so you would be ahead of the game even if you couldn't sell the mags right away. Good luck on your search

zpo
October 16, 2004, 10:12 PM
????
I couldn't find a HK91 clone on that site.

Trebor
October 16, 2004, 10:26 PM
Other than the FAL, the only other guns I know that use FAL mags are an AR made by Bushmaster and an AR made by Fulton Armory. In both cases you'll need to modify the mags to work with the AR style lock-up and mag release. I think it's a matter of cutting the appropriate notch in the side.

I don't know anything specific about either gun, other than they use FAL mags. They are both fairly new. I did see one of the Fulton AR's at Camp Perry in August, but they hadn't even priced it yet. Knowing Fulton though, it won't be cheap.

Personally, I'd just get a FAL. Hunt the "For Sale" board on the Fal Files and you'll find a good deal sooner or later. Just do some research to know what your looking at so you'll recognize a good rifle at a good price when you see it. DSA rifles are good. Imbel receivers are good on home builts and smith builts. Century rifles are a risk, but if they've been tweaked to work, they can be good rifles at a good price.

Kor
October 16, 2004, 10:33 PM
Hope this is what your're looking for, zpo...

As already noted, the only rifles that have been designed to use metric FAL mags are, well, metric FALs and a couple of .308 AR variants like the Bushmaster rifle already mentioned, and a similar rifle that American Spirit Arms was offering at one point. The .308 FAL-mag AR's are gonna run you at least $800 if you can find one used that somebody who needs cash badly has to move, probably closer to $1K+ if you buy new. That seems to be outside of your preferred price range.

The best-made metric FAL rifles on the market are built by DS Arms, as also noted - and, again, you will wind up paying close to $1K+ unless a previous owner needed to sell their rifle and was willing to go down a few bucks, but it's highly unlikely that they would be willing to sell for less than $700-800. Same goes for "franken-FALs"(guns assembled from surplus parts kits) built by the big-name 'smiths like AZ Response Systems, AZ Expert Arms, etc. Sorry, but if you want really good build quality, fit and finish, you gotta pay for it. BTW, ARS/AZEXARMS-built guns may or may not be marked as such - my ARS FAL came with signed/numbered documentation, but no identifying markings were on the gun per se.

If what you want is a "beer-budget" FAL, you will probably have to settle for a rifle that was built by Century Arms International, Hesse, or a local 'smith or individual. Such a rifle will probably have a plain muzzle(no threads for flash-hider or muzzle brake), a permanently-attached muzzle brake, or a thumbhole stock. You can either buy such a rifle now, and get it gussied-up later, or save your box-tops for the FAL you really want.

If you decide to buy now, try to look for a rifle that was assembled on an IMBEL receiver - these receivers are manufactured to Brazilian mil-spec, using original Belgian FN blueprints. Most "Made in USA" FAL receivers except for DSA are not made to FN mil-spec, and can sometimes pose problems for someone who is trying to build a gun from parts; given enough time/effort, they can be made to work, but your odds of getting a gun that works right the first time are best if it is built on an IMBEL receiver.

With that said, however, Hesse-built guns should probably be avoided, since that outfit seems more interested in slapping guns together as fast as they can so they can sell them quick and cheap - again, with time/effort they can be made to work, but I dunno if you wanna go there. Century is somewhat better than Hesse(at least they will offer warranty service on their guns to the first owner), but like all manufacturers they sometimes let a few lemons get out of the plant. With builds by local 'smiths or individuals, you pays your money and you takes your chances; if you find a private individual who's selling a FAL, try to arrange a test-fire session(pay the range fees yourself and use your own ammo/mags, if necessary) - if he balks, take the hint and pass. Most dealers won't do this, simply because if you don't buy the gun, they can no longer sell it as new.

For more in-depth info, check http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/, www.azexarms.com, or the FALFiles FAQ's - all the info is there, I don't need to burn more bandwidth repeating it.

zpo
October 16, 2004, 10:41 PM
Well, dang. Thanks to all who answered my questions.
Oh, and Kor, don't put commas in your links. :)

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