Mosin Nagant semi-auto conversion?


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WhoKnowsWho
October 17, 2004, 12:56 AM
I remember reading something about this. Any body have information about such a conversion and any current offerings of it?

Even if the conversion parts was $100, it's still a semi-auto 7.62x54R for under $200!

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White Horseradish
October 17, 2004, 01:18 AM
I think I've heard about that. All you need to replace is the receiver, barrel and stock. Everything else can stay... ;)

Southern Raider
October 17, 2004, 01:51 AM
Are you sure this isn't something along the lines of the Pedersen device for the 1903 Springfields? i.e. a drop in, blowback conversion for 7.62x25

WhoKnowsWho
October 17, 2004, 03:46 AM
All you need to replace is the receiver, barrel and stock.

:p :neener:

I was hoping it was more like a Pederson device. Otherwise, that would suck.

Redlg155
October 17, 2004, 12:46 PM
Now a Pederson device would definitely be interesting if it would fire the 7.62x25 Tokarev cartridge.

Good Shooting
Red

The_Antibubba
October 18, 2004, 03:02 AM
A Pietrov Device? :neener:

max popenker
October 18, 2004, 03:28 AM
During, early 1900s there were several attempts to build semi-auto conversions of the M1891 rifle... al were completely unsuccessful.

The only converstion of the bolt action which was close to be mass produced was, IIRC, the Charleton (sp?) comversion of the SMLE, made in Australia circa 1941...

threeseven
October 18, 2004, 12:18 PM
There were actually several successful automatic and semi-automatic SMLE conversions, though you are right in the fact that none of them saw real mass-production on the scale of other early machineguns.

Howell Automatic Rifle
Calibre: .303 in
Rifling & Twist: 5 Groove, Enfield, LH
Barrel Length: 25.2 in (640mm)
Overall Length: 44.5 in (1130mm)
Approx. Weight: 11 lb 12 oz (5.3kg)
Magazine Capacity: 10 or 20 rounds
Converted: Base Workshops

The Howell Automatic Rifle was developed during the first World War in Britain, and reappeared early in the second as a means of conversion to automatic weapons for issue to Home Guard and for anti-aircraft use. Conversion to a Howell was permanent and could only fire in full automatic.

http://www.darkminds.com/~drake/junk/Howell.gif

Reider Automatic Rifle
Calibre: .303 in
Rifling & Twist: 5 Groove, Enfield, LH
Barrel Length: 25.2 in (640mm)
Overall Length: 44.5 in (1130mm)
Approx. Weight: 11 lb 8 oz (5.2kg)
Magazine Capacity: 10, 25 or 30 rounds
Converted: The Castle, Capetown

The South African Reider Automatic Rifle was produced in 1940-1941 and was a more modular design which could be 'dropped in' to the rifle and later removed without harming the rifle - the bolt was not modified. The last conversions made in mid-1941 were of a more refined design but the whole concept was shelved in 1941 when nobody particularly wanted to adopt the rifle attachment. The Reider was also capable of semi-auto fire.

Charlton Automatic Rifle
Calibre: .303 in
Rifling & Twist: 5 Groove, Enfield, LH
Barrel Length: 26 in (660mm) including compensator
Overall Length: 45.5 in (1156mm)
Approx. Weight: 16 lb (7.3kg)
Magazine Capacity: 10 or 30 rounds
Converted: Charlton's Motor Workshop

Now the Charlton Automatic Rifle you already mentioned, but it was actually originally developed in New Zealand, not Australia. It was a stop-gap light machinegun and was made from Lee-Metford rifles mostly, Lee Enfields only being used when the L-M's were all used up. It was designed to ease the lack of available Bren guns somewhat, and can accept the 30-round Bren magazine.

Charlton Automatic Rifle, SMLE Model
Calibre: .303 in
Rifling & Twist: 5 Groove, Enfield, LH
Barrel Length: 25.2 in (640mm)
Overall Length: 45.6 in (1158mm)
Approx. Weight: 11 lb 8 oz (5.2kg)
Magazine Capacity: 10 rounds
Converted: Electrolux, Australia

An Australian version of the Charlton was also produced, the Charlton Automatic Rifle, SMLE Model. This is the model you are thinking of, Max. This was made from the more recent SMLEs which actually helped fix a few problems the Kiwis were facing with their Charlton design. These look a lot neater than the NZ version aswell, more enclosed. These were designed to take the 10 round SMLE mags but not the Bren, for whatever reason. In addition to being neater, it was also much lighter.

Howard Francis Self-Loading Carbine
Calibre: 7.63mm Mauser
Rifling & Twist: 5 Groove, Enfield, LH
Barrel Length: 12.75 in (324mm)
Overall Length: 32 in (812mm)
Approx. Weight: 8 lb 1.5 oz (3.7kg)
Magazine Capacity: 12 rounds
Converted: Prototype Only

A very interesting one is the Howard Frances Self-Loading Carbine, a conversion from a No. 1 Mk III SMLE to the 7.63mm Mauser pistol cartridge. It fired in semi-automatic only. Suffered some feeding and extraction problems and, despite meeting accuracy and soundness of design concept, never made it past prototype stage. Very light and very short little carbine.

Phew! Bear in mind a Pederson device was also developed for use with the SMLE family of rifles. I hope that information is of some use to someone :)

Cosmoline
October 18, 2004, 01:58 PM
IIRC there WAS a Pederson Device made for the Mosin-Nagant M-91, but virtually al of them were destroyed after the revolution. I don't believe any got delivered to Russia.

Famaldehide Face
May 30, 2008, 04:04 PM
Were any of these conversions used in combat/saw service etc?

Joshua C
May 30, 2008, 04:12 PM
I think I've heard about that. All you need to replace is the receiver, barrel and stock. Everything else can stay...

Well, at least I can keep the sights.

GigaBuist
May 30, 2008, 04:48 PM
Are we talking recoil operated here or gas operated? And by gas I mean gasoline.

Might be a way to do it w/ a small 2 stroke engine. :D

PTK
May 30, 2008, 04:51 PM
Old thread, but I thought I should chime in anyway: I'm currently gathering materials to make a simple gas-op piston driven cammed semi-auto from the MN91/30 action and barrel. It may take quite some time, as it's mostly a "spare time, when I feel like it" project based on a ruined action.

Vaarok
May 30, 2008, 11:11 PM
There were no Pedersen devices built for Mosins with intent for the Russians to get any.

WW1 was happening, the Russians were having Remington make rifles on a huge scale, there was the revolution, the Russians defaulted on the contract and fell into anarchy, and Remington got stuck with a skillion M-91s.

The .gov bought all those rifles to keep Remington from going bankrupt, and for the next twenty years tried to figure out what to do with them.

In the process, there were experiments regarding adapting a Pedersen device to a Mosin, but there were supposedly less than a dozen prototypes and it was a complete failure.

Cacique500
May 31, 2008, 11:37 AM
Yep. It's called an SVT-40 ;)

Hoppy590
May 31, 2008, 12:18 PM
most nations experimented with turning bolt actions into semi autos. the united states, england and a number of other nations had larger numbers of Mosins, and i too have heard they did some work with Mosin Nagants and SA conversions

but most bolt guns are ill suited for such work, and the end products tend to be temperamental weapons... the military equivalent of a HS shop class dune buggy

how ever straight pulls showd great promise. the Mexicans had a semi auto rifle around the turn of the century in wide issue that is basicly likea K31 with a gas piston

Avenger
May 31, 2008, 12:41 PM
Yacov Roshchepey apparently made a delayed blow-back version of the M91 in 1906 or so as a development rifle, but Tsarist officials were 'suspicious' of it, and it was abandoned. That's all the info I've ever found about it.

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