Question about ordering with C&R license


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deadmeat
October 17, 2004, 09:28 PM
I have 3 close friends that all want CZ52's. I can get em for $95 when the local shops sell for $200+. These people are in no way prohibited from buying a handgun as they are gun owners. Is it legal for me to order for these people? I cant find anything in the manuals about it. They only say not to transfer guns to prohibited persons. I will not be making any profit off these guns. I need some help! Thanks! Adam

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glocksman
October 17, 2004, 09:46 PM
It is illegal for you to purchase a gun with your C&R for the purpose of resale. Period. Profit or lack thereof is immaterial.

However, it's not illegal for you to purchase several examples of a particular type and then later decide to only keep the best one and then sell off the others in order to procure more funds to enhance your collection.

But again, you cannot purchase a C&R with your license for the purpose of resale regardless of whether or not you make money on the deal.

deadmeat
October 17, 2004, 09:57 PM
thanks for the reply!

thefitzvh
October 18, 2004, 01:44 AM
can you use your C&R license for the purposes of gifting a gun to someone? I want to buy my buddy a nice CZ52 or nagant revolver for his B-day, but I dont wanna pay the transfer fee at a local shop. I was planning on going to AZ to a gunshow, buying one, and bringing it back, using my C&R

CZguy
October 18, 2004, 01:56 AM
The license is for the holder, no one else.

Give your friend something other than a firearm for his birthday.

How about $30.00 and help him fill out the C&R license application.

Okiecruffler
October 18, 2004, 07:52 AM
On several occasions I've bought 5 fers with the intention of selling off the worst 4 (alot of times I've only sold off 2 or 3, but that's another story:D ), which the BATF says is completely okay, it's part of builting a collection. But I've never sold any of those to friends or relatives. That creates a question of intent. Not too long ago I was setting up a M48 scout rifle for a friend, and he had to buy the rifle at a local gunshop for 100 bucks. Worked out well for me since when he decided he'd rather go with a Savage bolt he gave me the mauser for all the work I had done on it.

ID_shooting
October 18, 2004, 09:29 AM
What I can't find in the rule book is how many I can sell in a given anount of time.

I want to buy few, keep the ones I likle best and sell the rest at a gunshow to provide more capitol to buy more guns.

Anyone know the details about this? Better yet, a link to a page that speaks in layman's terms?

Okiecruffler
October 18, 2004, 10:03 AM
and can't give this advice often enough, contact your local agent. A rule of thumb I was given is, if I buy 5 and sell 4, don't make more money than I bought the 5 for.

Jim K
October 18, 2004, 12:44 PM
You can't "engage in the business" of buying and selling guns. BATF deliberately has not defined that term because there are times when some obvious hanky-panky is involved, even if it is only one gun. Most of the time they don't worry too much as long as proper records are kept. But remember they check the sellers' books and if one collectors license holder comes up repeatedly buying a bunch of guns of the same kind, they are definitely going to check.

Also remember that any sales to non-licensees have to comply with state and local laws. In addition, some states do not recognize the collectors license at all, either for some guns or for all guns. In those circumstances, selling to another C&R licensee in the same state is the same as a transfer between individuals; you may have to go through a dealer or obtain police permission. To top things off, some states consider receiving certain guns in interstate commerce illegal for other than state-licensed dealers.

If I were a collectors license holder, I would not selling any guns to my "buds" or anyone else. No matter what excuse I would give ("Of course I ordered 2000 pistols, but I kept the best one and sold the rest to improve my collection...") I suspect I would not keep my license long and maybe spend a neat vacation at Club Fed if any of the buyers were wrongo or if one of those 1999 guns I sold was used in a crime.

The antis are very much determined to eliminate the collectors license; it would take only one incident to get it gone.

Jim

kfranz
October 18, 2004, 04:25 PM
"What I can't find in the rule book is how many I can sell in a given anount of time.

I want to buy few, keep the ones I likle best and sell the rest at a gunshow to provide more capitol to buy more guns.

Anyone know the details about this? Better yet, a link to a page that speaks in layman's terms?"

There are no details. As Jim Keenan posted, You may not "engage in business"

CZguy
October 18, 2004, 05:29 PM
I know that if I were ever audited, I wouldn't want to say I disposed of some of these at a gun show.

The few that I have sold, I required the new owner to fill out all of the proper paper work.

In short, if you are in doubt call BATF

I understand the temptation. It's just dangerous

CZguy
October 18, 2004, 05:33 PM
After re-reading your post, it sounds like you want to deal in firearms, in order to collect more firearms.

That's exactly what they don't want you to do.

wasrjoe
October 18, 2004, 05:41 PM
I don't see how you got that from his post at all. He wants to buy 3 for his buddies.

CZguy
October 18, 2004, 10:04 PM
____________________Quote_________________________
"I want to buy few, keep the ones I likle best and sell the rest at a gunshow to provide more capitol to buy more guns. "
____________________________________________________


I wonder if we are referring to the same post, it was fairly clear to me.

To me his post says, he wants to buy some firearms (using his C&R license) keep the ones he likes, and sell the rest at a gun show.

That would mean using your collectors license, to acquire firearms in order to sell then so you could buy more firearms. In short, dealing in firearms.

I stand by my earlier post, I believe that is not allowed.

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