[mountaindrew]

Hello all. I am the happy owner of a romanian M44. I took it to the range on saturday, and after I was able to get the front sight post straight, (it was bent and my groups were off about 3 feet at 200 yards) It shot great. I got a group of about 3 inches at 100yards kneeling (good for me).

So now the hard question (here come the flames!)
I bought this rifle with the intention of sporterizing it. Sorry to all you purists, but I did select one with as little historical significance as I could. It is a run of the mill, 1954 romanian, with a cracked stock, so little collector value. I will later get an original WWII m38 to keep original.

I have already sanded and reshaped the stock significantly. I slimmed down the grip area (wrist?) a little to better fir my small hands. I thinned the stock somewhat, and I planed the top flat and added a piece of wood to raise the comb and give the stock a better countour ( it looks so much better!) I also narrowed the forend slightly for a better feel.

my first question is this: What purpose to the forend stock pieces that wrap around the stock serve? I would like to cut the stock right behind the first band. How do you remove the barrel bands from the barrel?:confused:

Also I would like to remove the bayonet lug and possibly shorten the barrel, but the importer marks are on the space between the bayo lug and the front sight. Would it be legal to remove the bayo lug/front sight?

Thanks for the advice, and sorry if I have offened you milsurp purists!:D

[jefnvk]

Try this for taking the gun apart: http://surplusrifle.com/mosincarbine/rifledisassembly/index.asp

And since you are sporterizing it, at least do a good job!

[Kestryll]

I have no idea why the wood extends as far up thebarrel as it does. Many rifles from that era have the same feature so I asssume there was either some benefit or a hold-over from past weapons.
I do know that my M44 does not suffer for having the wood removed.

To remove the barrle bands you either have to remove the front sight/Bayonet mount assembly or spread them at the joint on the bands. I don't think they will go back together if you spread them though.

As for your bayonet there are 2 ways to remove it. You can punch out the two pins holding the bayo/front sight assembly on and try to slide it off the barrel, I have heard of people having them slide right off but most of the time it involves tapping, hitting, swearing and a blow torch. Just to clarify, the front sight and the bayonet mount are part of a sleeve the slides onto the barrel.

The other option is to just unscrew the big srew holding the bayonet to the mount and set it and the spring aside. If you feel you don't like the mount being there you can cut it off, grind the nub flush and refinish.
You may want to look at option 2 as your importers mark is on the front sight sleeve.

This one is mine after some mods.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/092756.jpg

[White Horseradish]

my first question is this: What purpose to the forend stock pieces that wrap around the stock serve?

They keep you from burning your hands when you raise the rifle above your head to block a saber cut.

[mountaindrew]

You know White, I had thought they had something to do with the heat, as my barrel got pretty hot after 20 rounds or so, but I didn't think of that. I tmakes sense considering the russian attitude back then that a rifle was a spear that could shoot. Personally I would rather shoot them before they got that close. As I dont think I am going to be using the rifle in close quatres combat, I think I will remove them.

Kestryll, Nice loocking rifle. Mine will look somthing like that I think. What did you make the forend cap out of? also, what did you cover the holes for the sling with? Thanks for your responses guys, Drew

[Cosmoline]

Friends don't let friends Bubba rifles :D

I'm no colector or purist, but the more I've used these old war horses the more I've come to appreciate the wisdom of their designs. A big scope on an M-44 is about as useful as you-know-what on a bull.

[White Horseradish]

Personally I would rather shoot them before they got that close.

As an infantryman being assaulted by cavalry, you might not get the chance. Cavalry moves quickly, and the fastest you could shoot a Mosin would be what, 18 shots a minute if you spray and pray?

Bolt action battle rifles were built with SHTF in mind all the way.

[Clemson]

There is nothing magic about the importer's mark. You can cut the barrel and remove it.

Clemson

[ceetee]

All that wood up front also gives you a better grip on the weapon when slogging through the slush, and butt-stroking your opponent-of-the-moment.

[jefnvk]

Could I get some clarification on that? I thought that when the gun was imported, the importer became the 'manufacturer' and the S/N they stamped became the gun's S/N?

[Clemson]

If that were so no one could rebarrel an imported milsurp rifle. The serial number that you record (if you are an FFL holder) is stamped on the receiver. It is the original manufacturer's number.

Clemson

[LynnMassGuy]

Please don't do it.

John
LMG

[mountaindrew]

Please dont do what? Why are we whispering?

Clemson are you sure? It makes sense though. There are no numbers and no critical info in the importers stamp, and even if I just wanted to change the front sight, i would have to remove them, much less rebarrel the action.

Just to be safe, maybe I could copy the information on the underside of the barrel with an electro-pencil?

Ok, well the stock work is done, minus a good rubber buttpad. (any recomendations ) it feels great now, and fits me alot better with a raised comb and slimmer grip areas. I just have to finish it.

I have thought about this: what if i removed the front sight/ bayo mount, cut the barrel 2.5 inches, cut the front sight from the bayo mount and reinstalled it on the last remaining inch of the smaller diameter barrel?

I am really trying to invent a way to mount a scout scope and still have backup iron sights. I thought about the rear sight on a kel-tec su-16 which is a very small peep sight that mounts to a weaver rail. I could attach it either under or behind the scope rings on the rail and then have quick release scope rings (with the little knurled screws) The onlt promlem is the rear sight would them be higher than the front.
Any suggestions

Thanks for all the help guys!

[Clemson]

I have a Curio & Relic FFL. You can legally cut the barrel or remove it altogether. People rebarrel Mauser rifles every day, and all of them come with the importer's stamp nowadays. I even have an M1 Garand with an import stamp on the barrel. There is nothing to stop me from rebarreling it and getting rid of that unsightly stamp. In the case of the M1, rebarreling would not remove its C&R status, as it would just be a "restoration." Read on.

I would suspect that John is cringing because of the potential desecration of a milsurp. I sympathize, but I have no problem with converting an otherwise unusable and non-collectible piece. Not everyone shares that opinion, however. You can actually get yourself banned from some internet sites for mentioning it.

By the way, if your milsurp is actually purchased as a Curio & Relic, it will have to be registered in your "bound book." Once you have cut the barrel or replaced it with a sporter barrel, it is my understanding that it must be removed from the book as it is no longer a C&R firearm. A replacement that is a restoration, however, would not change the C&R status. If you just buy from a dealer and have no C&R license yourself, you don't have to be concerned at all.

Clemson

[DF357]

Should I 'sporterize' this 38? Looks pretty sporty to me already.
Personally I can't image why anyone would want to alter any milsurp.
To each his own. That's what makes America great - different ideas.

http://www.dfandkf.com/mosin.jpg

[Drue]

DF357

That is a VERY nice M38!

Drue

[DF357]

I got it for $79 from SOG last month. It looked as if it came right out of a new crate - not a mark on it except for s cuppla spots where the 'finish' was chipped. The finish on it turned out to be a dark varnish stain and the color came off when the varnish got chipped. The receiver is marked 1940 and I'd guess it was reconditioned recently as the metal finish still looks new/unused.

To fix the wood finish, I rubbed it with 0000 steel wool soaked in lacquer thinner and the old varnish and color disappeared instantly. When dry, I put a few coats of BLO on it.

I really lucked on on this buy !

[fistful]

A Krag. Neato!

[DF357]

"A Krag. Neato!" ??????? I didn't see a reference to a Krag --

But ok, here's a couple - a mod 1898 made in 1899 and a mod 1898 made in 1902

http://www.dfandkf.com/krag1.jpg

http://www.dfandkf.com/krag02.jpg

almost identical except for the sights

[Bigdog]

I don't consider myself a "Gun snob" or purist (I own a Dremel, and am not afraid to use it!), but I would prefer to leave a good M44 as is. My M44 will remain in Russky GI trim.
But, buba'd Mosins are plentiful, if you want to make a neat little brush or pig gin. I bought a Chinese T53 that had been chopped down. I had originally planned to put it back into an M38 or M44 stock and "restore" it. Unfortunately, Bubba cut about 3/4" off the barrel, and cut the bayo mount off the front sight housing before reinstalling it. Dang.
I could still put it in an M38 stock and get it to look more military - but no full restoration possible without rebarreling - then I lose the Chinese markings. :fire: :banghead: :cuss:
Well, Bubba did do a very nice blue job on this little "deergun". Maybe I'll put it in one of those wood aftermarket sporter stocks. I don't care for the synthetics. It still shoots well, at least. ;)

[fistful]

DF357,

I was excited by the Krag peeking out from underneath the Mosin on your first picture. I don't understand the Mosin fever, but I do like Krags. Why was I reading this thread to begin with?

[Malone LaVeigh]

The only mod I want for my M38 is a recoil pad. That thing kicks my butt!

Is that acceptable to the purists? I could sorta be a purist myslef, if I was more into it. I really love thinking that my Mosin and Garand might have helped whup Hitler.

[DF357]

Fistful,

You've got a really good eye to catch that.

Got any Krags ???

[fistful]

I wish - I hear tell the action is quite slick and I dig its cool name. Gun store down the street has a sporterized Krag.

[JohnKSa]

Am I really seeing some people trying to guilt a guy out of modifying his cheapo, dime-a-dozen beater milsurp?

It's not even a model that would have any collector value if it were in perfect condition-- it was never used in a war--there are a ton of them in unissued condition on the market right now for chicken feed--and they're cheap copies of the original.

I understand the idea of losing a piece of history, but I think this is taking the principle too far.

I really have no interest in the Romanian M44s, but from now on, anytime I see anyone trying to discourage someone from sporterizing one, I'm going to go buy one in the best condition I can find, hacksaw off the barrel behind the front sight, face off the barrel with a file, recrown it by hand, burn the original stock, put the barreled action in a cheap synthetic stock, drill & tap the receiver, bend the scope handle and mount a Simmons scope on it. Then I'll sell it for $50 and wait for the next time the forum commands me to repeat the process. I might be kidding about this, but don't count on it...

[cracked butt]

Should I 'sporterize' this 38?

Hmm, with a hacksaw, grinder, and belt sander I could purty it up real real nice for you.

-Bubba

[The_Antibubba]

The only mod i want for my M38 is a recoil pad. That thing kicks my butt!


:uhoh:

Uh, I'm not an expert, but I think you're holding it wrong! :p

[Cosmoline]

A lot people do hold these rifles incorrectly. American shooters trained to fire scoped rifles tend to bend down towards the bolt, towards where the eye relief zone on a scope would be. This does two bad things on a mil surp. First of all, it forces the butplate away from your chest and out onto the bones of your shoulder. Length of pull on military rifles tends to be on the long side. Secondly, it forces the shooter to drop the rifle down to cycle the action. If you are holding it correctly, you should be able to cycle the bolt without breaking the weld.

The key is to move the rifle in towards your chest, keep your head back and eye down the sights from the back of the stock not from right behind the bolt. This places you in a "L" shape rather than a "V" shape with your rifle.

[Clean97GTI]

I too am a big Krag fan. I inherited one from my grandfather.

Mine is a model 1899 but has been sporterized. It used to be my grandfathers deer gun when he was younger. I still shoot it on occasion, but I'm not to hot on running a lot of ammo through such an old rifle.
I wish I could find an original 1899 stock. They are tough to locate though.

[heycatman]

I have no idea why the wood extends as far up thebarrel as it does. Many rifles from that era have the same feature so I asssume there was either some benefit or a hold-over from past weapons.
I do know that my M44 does not suffer for having the wood removed.

To remove the barrle bands you either have to remove the front sight/Bayonet mount assembly or spread them at the joint on the bands. I don't think they will go back together if you spread them though.

As for your bayonet there are 2 ways to remove it. You can punch out the two pins holding the bayo/front sight assembly on and try to slide it off the barrel, I have heard of people having them slide right off but most of the time it involves tapping, hitting, swearing and a blow torch. Just to clarify, the front sight and the bayonet mount are part of a sleeve the slides onto the barrel.

The other option is to just unscrew the big srew holding the bayonet to the mount and set it and the spring aside. If you feel you don't like the mount being there you can cut it off, grind the nub flush and refinish.
You may want to look at option 2 as your importers mark is on the front sight sleeve.

This one is mine after some mods.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/092756.jpg
I thought about the wood up the barrel thing too. I read two books "On Combat" and "On Killing" and it stated that most bayonet charges don't work like we think. Most charges end up with the soldier taking the gun turning it around an bludgeoning their opponent with it instead of impaling with the bayonet. I guess impaling someone is psychologically difficult to do to someone. So the only logical explanation is that it would be nice to put a wood handle on the end of the barrel so it's a little more like a baseball bat handle than a thin steel tube, but that's just my two cents.

[Cosmoline]

The key is to move the rifle in towards your chest, keep your head back and eye down the sights from the back of the stock not from right behind the bolt. This places you in a "L" shape rather than a "V" shape with your rifle.

I'm afraid I can't go along with you. You raise some good points but I think the benefits of a proper rifle stance outweigh the need to break the weld.

[Sam1911]

Wow, over six years since this thread died its first death.