Sad story of what not to do


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feedthehogs
October 20, 2004, 06:39 PM
Got a call today from a man named Ted Ragan out of Fort Pierce Florida seeking help. Being active in the pro gun community, my name and number gets tossed around. Sometimes good, sometimes not.

Ted asked if I could direct him to some help and relayed the following story.

Ted is a disabled Vietnam Vet. Disabled from land mine explosions while serving his country. In the late ninties, his son, now 31, was operated on for a medical condition and became disabled because of a bad operation.
His son has been on two kinds of pain medication since 1999 and has seizures. He has collapsed numerous times over the years and stopped breathing numerous times. Each time paramedics have brought him back.
Ted has just been waiting till the day they can't bring him back.
In April of this year, he found his son in the bathroom on the floor turning blue and not breathing. He called 911 and reported that his son was passed out on the bathroom floor not breathing.

Paramedics and 6 police officers showed up this time.
The police came in and went to the bathroom looking for something according to Ted. As the paramedics were trying to bring his son back, the police came out of the bathroom with a spoon laughing and calling his son a slang word for a druggie. Ted not knowing what the word meant, asked one officer. The officer made a motion of sticking a needle into his arm. Ted got upset because his son was not an illegal drug taker.
The cop put the spoon on the back of the couch. Ted went over to look at the spoon and was tackled from behind by two cops to the floor. Not knowing what was happening he struggled until he became aware that he was being arrested.
At that time a third officer put a knee into his back and they cuffed him all the while while paramedics are trying to revive his son.
After they got Ted up he asked what they were doing. They said he was being arrested for interfering with a crime scene, assaulting an officer and a third charge he couldn't remember.
Paramedics finally revived his son and rushed him to the hospital and the cops took Ted to jail very upset.
Ted called an attorney and bonded out to go see his son. He couldn't believe what happend to him and tried to get help to fight the charges all the while his son was in the hospital bearly hangin on.
An attorney told him it would cost 30 grand to fight it in court and if he won he could possible sue for what he thought was police misconduct.
Being disabled, he didn't have the money and turned to other sources for help. One of which was the local paper.

The paper asked if the incident invloved guns or drugs and Ted said no.
The paper then said they were not interested in running an exposay if neither of the two were involved.

Ted admitted he was very upset and having a breakdown of sorts because the jist of it in his mind was that the police answered to no one.

A few nights go by after visiting his son in the hospital and Ted comes home only to be as he decribed it, unaware of what he was doing.
He called the paper again trying to get them to print something up and the issue of guns came up. Ted said fine if you want guns, I'm locked and loaded ready to go and hung up the phone.

The paper called the police and about 60 cops with swat showed up for what was an 8 hour standoff during which Ted fired off 6 shots inside his home of which he does not remember.
He surrendered and of course was arrested.

I cringed after he told me that.
Of course his firearms were confiscated and he is deemed a danger to society and is facing possible prison time, among many other things.

Ted was most upset about losing his ability to own firearms for the rest of his life.
What could he do.

Well crap, I am no attorney so I directed him to call Roy Black, a crimminal defense attorney that has handled firearms cases before.

There was not much more I could do.
Even if found not guilty by reason of mental defect, that would get him out of jail but would not allow him to own firearms.

I talked to him a little bit more to calm him down and also suggested trying the ACLU for the first arrest since there was no crime scene in reality and the drug indication was false.

Now this is all a one sided story by Ted. I tried to Google it and came up with a story on him but it was archived and they wanted me to pay to read it.

Sad story of frustration and what not to do to get attention.
No bashing of police please since I don't know what their side of the story is.

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Matthew Courtney
October 20, 2004, 06:46 PM
From the story you describe, Ted belongs in jail or institutionalized.

R.H. Lee
October 20, 2004, 06:48 PM
The cop put the spoon on the back of the couch. Ted went over to look at the spoon and was tackled from behind by two cops to the floor. This part doesn't make sense.

feedthehogs
October 20, 2004, 06:51 PM
According to Ted, the police thought they had a crime scene and by touching the spoon, they said he was trying to destroy or tamper with evidence.

atek3
October 20, 2004, 07:02 PM
From the story you describe, Ted belongs in jail or institutionalized.

We'll see how well you hold up when you are thrust into a kafkaesque situation like that.

atek3

Deavis
October 20, 2004, 07:20 PM
Holy Crap!!!

kafkaesque situation

A well read and educated gun owner! No way, I refuse to believe it. This situation in no way resembles anything penned by a sickly man named Kafka, who by the way, never wrote morbid things about bizarre social situations.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is so Courtneylovish without the drugs, of course :neener:

I second atek's view, it is easy to say he is crazy when you aren't standing in his shoes. The guy was probably at the end of his rope and just lost his presence of mind and good judgement. It has happened to many people under much less strenous circumstances than described. He belongs in therapy first to reagin himself and then it should be determined if he needs to be sent to jail for firing at the police.

Matthew Courtney
October 20, 2004, 07:36 PM
If "Ted" has prior drug issues, if drugs were found or if he behaved violently during the periods that he cannot recall, he belongs in jail.

If "Ted" is merely an honest and good parent who has been overcome by circumstances, he just needs to be cared for and monitored closely to help ensure that he no longer threatens ploice and citizens with a firearm.

GSB
October 20, 2004, 07:37 PM
The guy was probably at the end of his rope and just lost his presence of mind and good judgement. It has happened to many people under much less strenous circumstances than described.

Yup. It shouldn't have ended in gunfire, but I can understand the anger the guy must have been feeling. We live in a world where you are basically told from childhood to just "shut up and take it". Sometimes, in some people, a psychological limit to that is reached. It doesn't justify the guy shooting at anybody, but I sure can see how he got to that bad place. A sad story, and I'm glad no one was injured or killed. Obviously society can't tolerate that sort of behavior, but I think those of us who are honest with ourselves can understand it on a purely human level.

Standing Wolf
October 20, 2004, 11:58 PM
This part doesn't make sense.

The whole thing makes no sense. I think there's a lot missing from the account. That said™, I'm sure it's possible for the innocent to be railroaded by unscrupulous cops, and equally sure not all who claim to be innocent really are.

azrael
October 21, 2004, 06:59 PM
I hope the man gets the care that he needs...I have a friend that was involved in a bad scene with the police...Granted the outcome turned out to be better than the above post...


True Story...

Buddy of mine got slipped some acid at a party...came home and basically had a bad trip and goes batshi$$ at home in front of family....Cops were called...Quick response ninja's show up....Buddy is talked into just walking out by one of the local cops that has known both of us most of our lives...Quick response ninja grabs buddies arm to "help" speed up the process...Buddy doesnt like this and jerks his arm away...Local cop tells ninja to back off that he has him in custody...Ninja again grabs buddy...My buddy (very nicely I might add) asks ninja to remove his hand from him...Ninja refuses and tries to put him in an armbar and take him to the ground...This was NOT a good idea...Buddy who looks skinny, happens to be about 170lbs of solid muscle...Buddy decides that since he lives next door to a dentist, that he is qualified to assist said ninja with some impromptu dental work...A REALLY hard shot is delivered by said buddy to the aforementioned ninja's mouth...Ninja falls back bleeding very badly from the mouth...I could go on about his nasal and vision problems that my buddy decided to assist him with as well...But alas that shall be saved for another day...

To make along story short, the rest of the ninja's jumped in, and though my buddy put up a valiant effort, he at last succumbed to superior numbers...

Was taken to mental hospitol...Was diagnosed as having a "psychotic" episode or something, due to an ingestion of LSD...

Was in mental home for several months to get the stuff out of his system and to make sure that he was competant to stand trial...

Judge took pity on him and gave him 6 months, minus time served plus probation and fines...LOTS of fines...

The local's showed intelligence...one of the ninja's (I learned in court that he had just been assigned to the unit) didnt show intelligence...The police that were there, showed a great deal of restraint in dealing with my buddy...considering the damage he did to 3 of them I am surprised that he was even breathing when they put him in the car, much less awake and alert enough to scream obsenities to the wind..

Buddy is now a productive member of society again...

Double Naught Spy
October 21, 2004, 08:01 PM
I get a kick out of reading such stories as the one posted at the top of this thread. The usually have some sort of tragic hero, in this case, Ted, who can or would do no harm, but ends up somehow and some some unnown reasons, on the wrong end of the law for no fault of his/her own. He was disabled by not one land mine, but multiple. Amazing. Of course, being a Vietnam vet has no bearing on what happened in Fort Pierce. It is just a detail offered to gain some sort of sympathy. Then there is the son who through no fault of his own is disabled from surgery. He is obviously a good boy who would never do anything wrong. So far, the story is full of no fault people and that is just the opening lines.

My guess is that the son was a drug addict, abusing legal (not illegal) drugs, the cop told Teddy this, showed him the evidence, and Teddy did something stupid, apparently in an attempt to destroy it or whatever and then had to be subdued.

It is convenient he didn't remember what the third charge was, but knew there were 6 cops that came to his house. It is strange as he should have been presented with paperwork at to his charges, especially since he went through a lawyer and bonded out of jail.

Of course, not realizing what was going on, Ted barricading himself in his house and held a standoff with the cops where he fired several rounds. And now he is sorry he lost his guns? The man doesn't get to have guns if his grasp of reality is so bad that he can't remember charges against him for an incident he doesn't recall how it happened and then ends up in a standoff with police that he doesn't remember or understand. No, there are very good reasons we have some laws and some of those laws are to keep people like Ted from havng the ability to do really stupid stuff with guns, like occupy the police's time for 8 hours in a standoff.

So Ted is so disabled that he can't begin to try to help his son beyond calling 911 every time his son drops, but can hold the police at bay? Really? That is amazing.

Why would Ted call you, feedthehogs? What is your position that he wanted your help, but that you weren't willing to pay for the archive of the news article? So, you aren't a lawyer, legal activist, newspaper person, representative of the NRA. So he just called you out of the blue?

BozemanMT
October 21, 2004, 08:02 PM
So, what lesson have we learned from this?

That's right, never surrender.

:fire:

The Grand Inquisitor
October 22, 2004, 12:10 AM
I'm amazed at how much love people on this board have for cops and how far they will go to defend them - that is, until they deal with them.

This guy Ted, while he made some mistakes, is far from the most guilty party here - why isn't anyone concerned with the cops who manhandled an elderly disabled guy while his son was potentially dying? Was it any concern of the cops who were there to make a judgement about this guys son being an adict or not? They were there for no foreseeable reason - although getting fatter and fatter on taxpayer money may qualify as a reason for them.

Sindawe
October 22, 2004, 01:18 AM
They were there for no foreseeable reason - although getting fatter and fatter on taxpayer money may qualify as a reason for them.

I can see some logic in having an officer or two respond to the call, if only to collect the data and facts that promted the call run the paperwork (EMS have other jobs to do right then) our culture demands of most everything anymore.

Six of 'em though, that strikes me as overkill. The verbalized judmental comments by the LEOs is very unprofessional ('course, *I'M* not a cop, so what do I know? :rolleyes: ), and the assault on Ted is something that ought not be tolerated in a decent society.

feedthehogs
October 22, 2004, 07:37 AM
Double Naught Spy,
The post was not to get sympathy for Ted, but a reminder that when all seems lost, calling the paper and threatening locking and loading is not a good idea.

The vet angle was how Ted told me the story I guess trying to make me feel sorry for him.
I did in that he was disabled in serving this country, but not as an excuse for what he did.

As far as why he contacted me he was seeking some sort of help in some way not to lose his rights to own firearms. But that seems gone.
Laywers just wanted money and I guess he was looking for some hope.
I have been a long time NRA instructor in this area, NRA EVC, NRA recruiter, past president of our local 2nd Amendment group which has gotten a lot of media exposure, I hosted a radio talk show for two years called "The Constitution Hour" which had the drive home slot of 4 to 6 pm. We dealt with all constitutional issues but primarily the 2nd. I am at the gun shows every weekend at the the NRA table signing up members and am involved in a few political campaigns.

So yes I seem to get my fair share of calls involving gun problems.

The search I did for the article was only to confirm the incidents happened. The first two paragraphs came up and confirmed part of the story. I didn't buy it because it would not have given me any other angle such as how the police interpreted what happened.

To incinuate Ted's son is a drug addict is adding your own twist to this story. If it makes you feel better and justifies something in your mind, have at it.

Again, the post subject was my only intention.

feedthehogs
October 22, 2004, 07:52 AM
Most of Ft Pierce is known as a high crime area, but cheap to live if on welfare, disability or making minimum wage.

Its not uncommon at all to see 5 or 6 cop cars responding to a call. There is a lot of drug abuse and sales there and I can see why they sent so many and their mind set.

DragonFire
October 22, 2004, 12:11 PM
I talked to him a little bit more to calm him down and also suggested trying the ACLU for the first arrest since there was no crime scene in reality and the drug indication was false.

Whether the drug "indication" was ultimately true or not, at that moment the police thought there was. That made it a crime scene.

I just don't buy this story. At best, things didn't happen the way "Ted" says they did, at worst someone is trying to use the pro-gun angle to help some anti-cop/anti-government cause. Maybe "Ted" just wants help fighting a justifiable arrest, maybe Ted just wants attention.

Even if things happened exactly like what's reported here, if Ted thought one of his options was to hold a stand-off with the police, and fire 6 shots, or if he was so out of it that it happened without him being aware enough to stop his actions, I don't want him to have his guns.

eoR
October 22, 2004, 03:09 PM
FTH, FWIW, here's the story. Not much more information than you already had.

LINK (http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:vNbqyQhGMIEJ:www1.tcpalm.com/tcp/cda/article_print/1,1983,TCP_16736_2791236_ARTICLE-DETAIL-PRINT,00.html+%22Ted+Ragan%22+&hl=en)

Armed Fort Pierce man surrenders after 8-hour police standoff
By Derek Simmonsen staff writer
April 8, 2004

FORT PIERCE — An eight-hour standoff with a man who barricaded himself inside his home ended peacefully Wednesday morning when he surrendered to authorities.

Ted Ragan, 56, of the 3600 block of South 25th Street, barricaded himself inside his home around 10 p.m. Tuesday, according to a St. Lucie County sheriff's report.

The incident began after Ragan called a local news channel, telling an employee he was "locked and loaded" and upset about a recent arrest. The employee called 911 only minutes before Ragan called dispatchers, and deputies were sent to the home.

Family members who were outside told deputies Ragan was armed with several rifles and night-vision goggles and was locked inside the house.

Family members told deputies that Ragan was having flashbacks about the Vietnam War as a result of his arrest Monday. He was free on bail when the standoff occurred.

Negotiators talked with Ragan throughout the night and convinced him to surrender about 6:20 a.m.

Inside the home, deputies found several guns and ammunition, as well as bullet holes in the kitchen and foyer of the house. Ragan reportedly fired several gunshots inside his home during the confrontation, but did not fire at deputies or officers.

He will have a psychological evaluation under the Baker Act, the report states.

Charges are pending.

- derek.simmonsen@scripps.com

mwithers72
October 22, 2004, 05:00 PM
I have a question...........

If the spoon was evidence and the bathroom was a crime scene... then why would the LEOs "spoil" the crime scene by removing said object in the first place.

It just raises questions in my mind to the validity of the LEOs calling this a crime.

Can they remove/move/replace evidence anywhere they like. (Moving from bathroom to the back of a couch)

Am I incorrect in thinking that a crime scene should remain undisturbed until proper itemizations can be done or is it not the case on suspected drug cases?

BluesBear
October 23, 2004, 07:13 AM
There is SOOOOOOO much more to this story than has been exposed here.

This is indeed a sad story.
It's a sad story of people to stay away from.
feedthehogs, stay far far away frim this guy. I doubt you can help him and assiciation with him can not possibly do you any good.

c_yeager
October 23, 2004, 07:50 AM
Considering this sort of behavior :
Ted said fine if you want guns, I'm locked and loaded ready to go and hung up the phone.

And this:
The paper called the police and about 60 cops with swat showed up for what was an 8 hour standoff during which Ted fired off 6 shots inside his home of which he does not remember.

Especially when coupled with this:
which he does not remember

I have a real hard time siding with Ted. He is clearly capable of erratic and violent behavior, coupled with a propensity for memory loss associated with this behavior. Maybe he also "does not remember" the actions that he took leading to his arrest in the first place.

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