concerned about the DA/SA transition


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B_Scott
February 25, 2003, 02:46 PM
I currently have a glock 27. I am in the market (really, who isn't) for another handgun. I am concerned about the DA/SA trigger transition. I have only shot glocks, revolvers and SA handguns. Am I worried about nothing?
I was told that I would have to place my finger differently on the trigger after the first shot. Is this true?
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

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10-Ring
February 25, 2003, 03:15 PM
1st off, welcome to THR! ;

Secondly, the DA/SA transition is no big deal. Just commit to training yourself and it shouldn't be a problem.

Onslaught
February 25, 2003, 04:04 PM
It will feel "different", but you can easily learn to master it.

I don't have to shift my finger from DA to SA.

Your other option is to stick to one type of trigger mechanism... I'd prefer all mine to be DA/SA, so as to keep a similar feel across the board.

In your case, there's plenty of Single action and Safe Action pistols to choose from in all calibers.

jar
February 25, 2003, 04:14 PM
If you've shot revolvers it will be no big deal. And you don't place your finger differently after the first shot. I have NO idea where that came from. Frankly I have and shoot DA and SA revolvers, SA, DA/SA and striker fired strange systems like the GLOCK and XD and I really notice no difference between any of them (except of course that none of the semis will ever be as accurate and even the least accurate of my wheelguns).

9mmepiphany
February 25, 2003, 04:31 PM
jar is right on point ... if you can competently shoot a DA wheelgun, the DA/SA auto will not be a problem. the first stroke is the same as on your wheelgun. after that each pull will be like a "cleaned up" glock stroke.

there need not be a "shift" in your trigger position, your trigger finger is just less straight because of the shorter trigger reach.

it does take a bit of practice...but who among us can't use more practice.

Sean Smith
February 25, 2003, 04:33 PM
My personal preference is for guns with consistent shot-to-shot trigger pulls. DA/SA semi-autos just seem to give you one more obstacle that you have to overcome with training. Sure, training can overcome it... but why make the task of shooting harder and less intuitive than it has to be? In essence, you are wasting training time to overcome an artifical obstacle to your performance that doesn' t need to be there.

The rub, of course, is that there are alot of really nice DA/SA semi-autos out there. Do their other positive qualities overcome the negatives of their trigger systems? That depends on what your personal priorites are.

XLMiguel
February 25, 2003, 04:40 PM
B-Scot - the best advice I can give is 'go shooting', either with friends who have handguns of the type your interested in or at a range that rents handguns.

Overall, getting comfortable with the DA/SA transition is just a matter of familiarization and practice. All the same safety rules apply, it's just a matter of taking time to become familiar with the manual of arms and how you safely manipulate the gun while you use it(e.g., snap caps & dry firing), and then go shooting, and see how you like it. Enjoy!

FWIW, a number of other mfr.s besides Glock and offering a variety of high quality auto-loading handguns with DAO actions, including Kahr, H&K (LEM), Beretta (just in case you need to do more research . . . :D )

Handy
February 25, 2003, 08:01 PM
Make things easy on yourself and get a DA with a good trigger. Both Sig 22X and Walther P99 have light, smooth pulls. You can do a good job with any gun, but these guns make it easier. And they are good pistols in general.

9mmepiphany
February 25, 2003, 08:47 PM
if we're gonna talk about trigger pulls too, i'm gonna chime in with a yo for the beretta 92/96.

very smooth DA out of the box and the safety/decocker just jumps off with a nudge

Tecolote
February 25, 2003, 09:22 PM
DA/SA is only a concern if you make it one. With proper training you can smoothly go from DA to SA without it affecting accuracy.

sonoranjack
February 25, 2003, 09:52 PM
My first 2 pistols were DA/SA. I'll never buy a DA/SA pistol again.

Blueduck
February 25, 2003, 10:55 PM
I had real issues with double action guns and thier "dissappearing triggers" on going to single action. Finally after not messing with them for years I learned about proper trigger control :o

Two of my favorite guns are now my 4506 and 639 (both true double action autos). When all else fails read directions or get instruction ;)

Morgan
February 26, 2003, 02:19 AM
Read the attached.

Sean Smith
February 26, 2003, 08:55 AM
That document is an elquent statement of why you SHOULDN'T use a DA/SA gun, though of course that's not its intent.

Handy
February 26, 2003, 11:48 AM
A DA gun is a fraction more difficult to shoot REALLY well than an SA. But in giving up that fraction the shooter gains a margin of safety.

1. The pistol is less likely to fire due to mishandling, and a certain amount of mishandling is impossible to avoid.

2. The weapon is always ready to fire, and with either hand.

For close ranges (defence shooting) there isn't much practice needed to put the bullets in a target. For longer ranges, practice is necessary, but is a small price to pay for decreasing the net likelihood of shooting something you shouldn't, or not being able to fire when you need to.

The common machismo that the shooter "knows better" than allow the trigger to be pulled at the wrong time is just that; human beings make errors. If you can train to keep your finger off the trigger, you can also train to control a DA trigger. Ultimately, that training will pay the largest dividends when the chips are down.

The only gun I would ever feel comfortable shoving in a waistband or pocket is one with a decocked mainspring and at least 9 pounds of trigger resistance. Will you always have the luxury of controlling how you carry a gun?

NewShooter78
February 26, 2003, 12:06 PM
I find it the other way around. I've only shot DA/SA in my handgun. I have no problem making the transition from the first shot to the next 9. When I shoot my buddy's SW99 in DAO, it takes me a couple of rounds to get used to the trigger pull. DAO trigger pull feels too light for my training, but its not what I'm used to so of course it feels a little alien to me. The only consolation for me is that I shoot his gun better than he can shoot mine. :D

Edward429451
February 26, 2003, 12:20 PM
Oh, the myths that the gunrags perpetrate.

Just keep concentrating on that front sight, and let your sub-concious learn the trigger. No big deal.

Blueduck
February 26, 2003, 05:14 PM
One thing I find really odd is that a lot of times you see posters praising the Glock for it's "constant" trigger pull. Then you'll note the same people in other post teaching others that after the first shot with a Glock you only release the trigger very little, just enough to allow it to reset before firing again.

I admit this is the way I shoot Glocks as I have better results with that system, but in truth thats two "different" trigger pulls as well. They've just reinvented the double action auto:rolleyes:

Edward429451
February 27, 2003, 12:42 PM
Nah, not so. I shoot my Glock with that 'system' and I take up the slack before tripping the shot even on the first shot. I treat it like a military two stage trigger. If you do it with two seperate trigger pulls you would likely be jerking the first shot. Some may do that, I do not.

Blueduck
February 27, 2003, 07:27 PM
Sorry Ed yes so ;)

You could choose to stage the trigger on any true D/A auto just the same as you do your glock, same end result. First pull is long (staging) before firing, rest of the pulls are short, (catching the reset).

See what I mean.

Handy
February 27, 2003, 07:42 PM
Disagree with Blueduck. I can't think of any DA trigger that has an obvious stopping point before sear release. None reach a point where no more trigger slack is there to take up and you are pushing against the sear engagement. Sear engagement isn't even a factor in a regular DA system, the sear is bypassed.

If you want to argue trigger semantics, whatever. But the reality is that the Glock is like a two stage trigger and you can stage it quickly and accurately every time. I have some autos with excellent DA triggers, but I couldn't reliably make it act like a Glock trigger.

According to Blueduck, any two stage trigger has more than one trigger pull. I doubt you'd get any rifle shooters agreeing to that.

Blueduck
February 27, 2003, 08:46 PM
Well Handy I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm sitting right here and am able to stage the DA triggers of my 639 and 4506 right before release with no problem whatsoever. Not sure why you can't seem to manage it:confused: I don't shoot them that way but it's no problem to actually do it.

Point is if your shooting a Glock the way described (and as apparently lot's of shooters including myself do), your doing the same thing you would with a TDA gun with the glock trigger system. Your taking up a longer trigger pull (whether you stop the instant before firing or not is irrelevant) then on subsequent shots your only allowing the trigger to return the small amount needed to allow it to reset. First shot longer pull, subsequenrt shots shorter pull.

Handy
February 27, 2003, 08:58 PM
Do you at least agree that there is a mechanical difference as your SW autos aren't using their SA sear, while the Glock always does?

Blueduck
February 27, 2003, 09:03 PM
Ohhh... I suppose so ;)

Al Thompson
February 27, 2003, 10:39 PM
:)

B_Scott
February 28, 2003, 10:23 AM
Blueduck, But on a glock it is the same pound pull each time. I am concerned about the different amount of pressure needed to pull.
I really am new to DA/SA, so tell me if I am wrong. Thanks.

Edward429451
February 28, 2003, 11:06 AM
Nah, sorry Blueduck, dont see what you mean. but just cause you can somewhat stage a DA/SA trigger in DA mode does not mean that its the same thing as taking up the slack in a Glock. It may sound the same on paper, but its way different in the hand.

B_Scott, I think that unless you're shooting competition at extended ranges, it wont matter a hoot. For self defense purposes at close range you probably wont even remember pulling the trigger. Practice double taps DA/SA at realistic defense ranges and you'll see what I mean.

9mmepiphany
February 28, 2003, 01:55 PM
i'd almost forgotten that you could stage the DA trigger pull on a DA/SA pistol...i used to shooot that way because i thought it was morre accurate out at 25 and 50 yards. it can definately be done, at least with smiths, sigs and berettas...it is easier with a smooth DA trigger pull.

pulling the DA straight through, like described by ernest langdon, is both faster and more accurate...much like shooting a DA wheelgun at 25/50.

i actually have my glock 19 set up with more "feel" in the takeup, it just makes me feel more comfortable as a "pre-stage" during presentation from the holster.

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