Dilemma in ‘08


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Intune
October 24, 2004, 01:03 AM
So let’s say Kerry wins this election and does fair in the next four years. Will the Dem’s usurp him with Hillary? Do the Repubs go with Ms. Rice and hope to garner the minority vote? In my 46 years on this earth I have seen a lot of political gamesmanship and I believe we need to go back to basics. What does the Constitution allow? Government should go no further. I have a 13 yo and a 9 yo. I am concerned about their future. Am I wrong to be really worried about the future of our beloved country?

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JHill
October 24, 2004, 01:15 AM
I hear ya Intune.

It is good that you are looking a head.

We might want to take into consideration that they(repubs) are trying to amend the COTUS to allow good ole conservative Arnold to be a pres in the future.

MICHAEL T
October 24, 2004, 01:19 AM
Mine are 14,12,10 and I worry about what kind of country ,their will have. Things need to change .:(

JHill
October 24, 2004, 01:40 AM
Hey what do you guys think of Peroutka and Paul (Ron) in 08?

Intune
October 24, 2004, 02:01 AM
They have to bring a truck load of people aboard with their messages. We are hurting, it may be an option. Prove it. Them, not you! ;)

Zrex
October 24, 2004, 02:39 AM
Peroutka and the "Constitution" party talk about god way too much. If you want to talk about God, go to church, but the last thing I want is some sort
of pseudo-conservative theocracy running things.

Paul ran for president in 88. I highly doubt he would run again. Dr. Rice for president? What has she done that is so great besides being a black woman? I dont mean to be harsh, but if Dr. Rice were a white male, Dr. Rice would hardly be noteworthy.

Change in this country has to happen from the bottom up.

Intune
October 24, 2004, 02:58 AM
Condoleezza Rice is the first woman to occupy the key post of national security adviser.

She is the most academic member of the Bush foreign affairs team and - because of her gender, background and youth - one of the most distinctive.
She is personally close to Mr Bush, barely leaving his side during the 2000 presidential election.

And, as a well-liked and trusted policy adviser, she has proved a useful ally for a president with little experience of foreign affairs.
Past advisers

The profile of the national security adviser varies from one administration to the next, as does their power over policy.
Some, like Ms Rice's mentor (and national security adviser to George Bush Snr), Brent Scowcroft, were important, but low-profile co-ordinators of foreign policy.
Others, such as Bill Clinton's Sandy Berger, were more visible.
Perhaps the most powerful and visible national security adviser of recent years was Henry Kissinger, who started as national security adviser to Richard Nixon and then became his secretary of state.
Uncompromising positions

Ms Rice's influence over the new administration's early foreign policy strategy has been considerable.
She led the tricky negotiations with Russia (her academic specialisation) over missile defence, and is thought to have spearheaded the unilateralist tone of the first months of the Bush presidency.

However, Ms Rice, like many in the administration, thinks of US foreign policy largely in terms of US national and strategic interest, and she is no fan of the US acting as a paternalistic nation-builder.

Against the odds
Ms Rice was born in 1954 and grew up in Birmingham, Alabama under the shadow of segregation.
She has often said that to get ahead she had to be "twice as good" and her childhood chiseled her strong determination and self-respect.
Taught by her parents that education provided armor against segregation and prejudice, Ms Rice worked her way to college by the age of 15.
She graduated at 19 from the University of Denver with a degree in political science.

Soviet interest
It was at Denver that Ms Rice first became interested in international relations and the study of the Soviet Union.
Her inspiration came from a course taught by the Czech refugee, Josef Korbel, father to the United States' first woman Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright.
A masters and doctorate followed and, at the age of 26, Ms Rice became a fellow at Stanford University's Center for International Security and Arms Control.
After serving as the Soviet affairs adviser on Bush Senior's National Security Council, Condoleezza Rice returned to Stanford in 1991 and, in 1993, became the youngest, the first female and first non-white provost.
It is difficult to make generalizations about Condoleezza Rice. She is an African-American National Security Adviser, but for a Republican administration that won just 10% of the black vote.
Some profiles of Rice describe her as precise and prissy. But she is also a pianist, ice skater and sports fan.
Rice's belief in education and self-improvement seem to be the key to understanding her.

In an interview with Newsweek magazine, Rice said that despite growing up with racial segregation, personal expectations were high.
"My parents had me absolutely convinced that, well, you may not be able to have a hamburger at Woolworth's but you can be president of the United States."

Beats a 20 year Senate record that is vying for prez right now in my book. Maybe it's just me? I HAVE A PLAN..............................

Coronach
October 24, 2004, 03:01 AM
Rice is intelligent, competent and eloquent. She also has the benefit of not being an 'overt' politician (lets face it, no one gets appointed to be anything greater than Personal Assistant to the US Consul to Left Armpit, Ashcanistan without being somewhat political). Perfect? No. But pretty good? So far? Yeah. Pretty good.

(I admit, I've not researched her thoroughly yet. This is just what I've seen so far.)

Also, she's a strong female black. That's icing on the cake. Run her, run her, run her.

Mike

Intune
October 24, 2004, 03:05 AM
Somebody post Hillary (shudder) Clintons bio. No, really.

Zrex
October 24, 2004, 03:12 AM
Does anyone know where she stands on the issues? Is she pro-freedom, or can she judged by the company she keeps?

Jim March
October 24, 2004, 04:14 AM
Rice has been interviewed discussing the 2nd Amendment and was a VERY vocal supporter. Really seriously primo stuff...she's be GREAT as President :).

Wildalaska
October 24, 2004, 04:48 AM
Condi Rice runs...she wins......

Wont get all of the black vote (the vocal left loonie wing of the Jacksoncrats), and wont get the rascist vote (the ones who think only good old white American gun owners are the best whiles all the other races and nations are inferior criminals or cowards), but the vast number of Americans will recognize quality and vote her in


Be so much fun to watch Jackson and Sharpton squirm

WildshehasmyvoteAlaska

71Commander
October 24, 2004, 06:36 AM
For a few years now I have thought she would run against HC, but not in this scenario. I thought Cheney would bow out and Rice would step in as the VP and in 4 years compete with HC for the top spot.

If Kerry wins, HC is screwed.

one45auto
October 24, 2004, 07:32 PM
We might want to take into consideration that they(repubs) are trying to amend the COTUS to allow good ole conservative Arnold to be a pres in the future.

That's the worst thing we could do, and not because Arnold isn't a genuine Conservative (only fiscally, by his own admission) either. It's hard enough ensuring the loyalty of someone born and raised in this country, can you imagine the scenarios it would open up if a foreign-born candidate could run for the presidency? Especially with all the hyphenated Americanism going on these days!?

No, to put our nations' safety at risk solely to have the chance to elect a former action film star is insanity of the worst kind.

TimH
October 24, 2004, 08:32 PM
If Kerry wins, HC is screwed.

The ONLY good thing of a Kerry Presidency

Edmond
October 24, 2004, 08:54 PM
I don't think even the most left of liberals would vote for HC.:scrutiny:

Surefire
October 24, 2004, 09:18 PM
I think if Kerry wins (and is reelected a second term), the majority of firearms and ammunition might be banned within the next 8 years. This guy looks even worst than Slick Wilie on his stance on guns and ammunition. Even more scary, I think he has a better than 50% chance of winning.

WT
October 24, 2004, 09:23 PM
Hillary will be good for the 'baby boomers.'

She is into health care and low cost prescriptions for seniors as well as increased social security benefits. These are going to be very important issues in the near future because of the massive number of 'baby boomers' retiring.

And with her husband Bill being head of the United Nations ..............

Coronach
October 24, 2004, 09:43 PM
I don't think even the most left of liberals would vote for HC.Uh...did you miss her current title?

Someone voted for her. ;)

Mike

Standing Wolf
October 24, 2004, 09:46 PM
So let’s say Kerry wins this election and does fair in the next four years.

Relax. America isn't dumb enough to elect that Kerry creature.

Coronach
October 24, 2004, 11:24 PM
Standing Wolf,

If you're right, I'll buy you a beer for every time you've said that. If you're wrong, I'm giving you a wedgie for each. ;)

Mike

Surefire
October 24, 2004, 11:46 PM
Relax. America isn't dumb enough to elect that Kerry creature.

I hope you are right.


But, I don't share this optimism. I think America is plenty dumb to elect that socialist numbskull Kerry.

Roon
October 25, 2004, 12:39 AM
I don't think Condi would get 60-70% of the black vote, since she's a republican and has already been tarnished with the "Tom" brush by one of the idolized black folk, Harry Belefonte. She would have to win without her brothers and sisters of color, but I think she could do it.

Sure as hell beats Hill! And a bunch of black folk would vote for her and as a republican, throwing the politics in this country into a true headspin. It would almost be another revolution.

It's about time! :mad:

neoncowboy
October 25, 2004, 02:41 AM
If Kerry wins, HC is screwed.

The ONLY good thing of a Kerry Presidency

I dunno about that...

I (perhaps over-hopefully) believe that if Kerry wins, the nation would gasp a collective 'oh-????-what-have-we-done' and wait to see what happens.

He'd begin appointing assinine cabinet members right away and generally acting in a manner that would freak out even his supporters (what else would you expect from him?)...making all kinds of scary noise about every issue that is emotional and bound to get him some time in the spotlight.

In '06 the republicans would sweep congress, mitigating somewhat the damage Kerry could do.

In '08 Hillary (not electable by a long-shot anyway) would be out of the running and Kerry would have his ass handed to him by any candicate the GOP fields: My guess would be Giuliani, but who knows...maybe Condi would run (I'd certainly support her).

In short: I think the conservative backlash against a liberal as stupid and politically driven as Kerry could be a good thing.

Third_Rail
October 25, 2004, 02:48 AM
Coronach, that's 89 beers/wedgies by my count. Can I keep you to it?

:D

(Posted by a bored insomniac)

71Commander
October 25, 2004, 04:38 AM
n '08 Hillary (not electable by a long-shot anyway) would be out of the running and Kerry would have his ass handed to him by any candicate the GOP fields: My guess would be Giuliani, but who knows...maybe Condi would run (I'd certainly support her).



AS I said earlier, Condi would be a strong consideration, BUT let's not forget Jeb Bush. His time may be right. With her as VP.

Nick_90
October 25, 2004, 06:45 AM
Didn't Jeb rule out running in '08?

71Commander
October 25, 2004, 07:49 AM
Didn't Jeb rule out running in '08?


Read politician. Anything is possible. Just because it's said is irrelevant.

cracked butt
October 25, 2004, 09:26 AM
If Condi ran, she already has my vote- hell I'd volunteer to help her campaign.

If Republicans get a Constitutional amendment through that allows them to run Awrnawld , I'll vote for Hillary, no scratch that, I might vote for a Libertarian if it looks like Awrnawld is going to lose big going into the election.

Mikul
October 25, 2004, 01:43 PM
I know that Hitlery is very popular, but I wonder how she'd perform in an election. She's got a short fuse and a mean streak that would likely show itself in the throws of a Presidential campaign. She might win if they could actually get her to keep her gaping maw shut.

Captain Crunch
October 25, 2004, 03:03 PM
If Hillary gets the nomination in 2008, we're looking at the possibility of 4 or 8 years of another Clinton co-presidency.

Is the country ready for this? I hope not.

Could the country survive this? I don't think so.

dog3
October 25, 2004, 04:18 PM
Bush wins, in 08, who will run against Billary, Cheney?
Not bloody likely.

Kerry wins, well, it'll be horrible for certain,
but you really have the blinders on if you think
that the road for the rise of Billary isn't being paved
with gold.

Why do you think the Dems put up such a lamer as Kerry?
What is unbelievable is that he is doing as well as he is.
Lots of folks are voting Kerry because he isn't Bush, and
for no other reason. Even his fans hate him.

They are TRYING to throw the election. The Dems know
that Karl Rove will eventually dig himself in so deep that
the country will be begging to get out from underneath.

You think Billary is unelectable? She makes Rove look like
a pre-pubescent boyscout when it comes to dirty tricks.

Don't kid yourself.

Partisan Ranger
October 25, 2004, 04:30 PM
I fear Hillary! running because I think the mainstream press would treat her as a goddess. No white male opponent could say a word against her. She'd play the woman card to the hilt like the true cynic she is, just like she did with Lazio in NY.

I'm afraid only a minority Republican, perhaps a black woman like Rice, could stop that socialist, gun-grabbing, anti-American witch.

Intune
October 25, 2004, 05:28 PM
Ditto. She causes an almost skin-crawling, creepy feeling when I see or hear her. Hillophobia? Ms. Rice might be the best hope. Garner some of the minority vote in addition to a share of the female vote.

The Rabbi
October 25, 2004, 08:41 PM
Sorry to disappoint everyone. Rice is not going to run for president. She has never been elected to anything and no one has run for president with any modicum of success without some election experience. I doubt she will even run for VP on any ticket. I do see her as Sec State in the second Bush administration.
It takes more to be president than just being smart or having good ideas. It takes a lot of grass roots organizing. That is why Bush won in 2000, a tremendous network of support built up over years.
Cheney will not run for president either. And thank goodness for that. He is a terrific VP and an inspiring person but he is not pres material.
If Bush wins, Hitlery will run in '08. HArd to imagine the Republican choice. Giuliani? I just dont see anyone out there right now.
If Bush loses, it'll be Kerry again unless he makes major errors ala LBJ.

71Commander
October 25, 2004, 09:30 PM
Here's some trivia. The "Y" is only sometimes. There has never been a president whose last name ended in a vowel. Thus if the same holds true, no Giuliani.

Wonder what this is about?

And on the subject of Giuliani, please no northern Republician. Especially one from NY. They are RINO's in the truest sense of the word.:barf:

themic
October 25, 2004, 10:43 PM
i think a george allen run may be likely in '08. he'd be a good strong candidate, too.

R.H. Lee
October 25, 2004, 10:59 PM
I have doubts that a woman-any woman-can be elected POTUS now or even in 2008. Now, if each party nominated a woman (which is not likely), it would most certainly happen, or the third party guy might even win. Giuliani is not presidential material, IMO.

WilderBill
October 25, 2004, 11:28 PM
Riley,
If Hillary ran against Condi there would be a woman President.

I don't think sKerry can pull off a win, but if you think the voters aren't stupid and easily misled, remember that Klinton go two terms.

I think that Jeb did say he wasn't interested in running for Pres.
I wonder if he would consider Vice Pres. behind Condi???

cracked butt
October 25, 2004, 11:34 PM
And on the subject of Giuliani, please no northern Republician. Especially one from NY. They are RINO's in the truest sense of the word

Yup, I agree. There is no way Giuliani would ever get my vote.

Werewolf
October 26, 2004, 01:07 PM
If Hillary gets the nod in '08 as the Demonrat nominee I believe that Elizabeth Dole would have a small chance of beating her. And Mrs. Dole could say and do as she pleased if Mrs. Clinton pulled the sex card out.

Realisticly though if Bush wins next Tuesday I believe a Democrat will win in '08. With the exception of Ron Paul I can't think of a single Republican worthy of being President and there is no way in hell Ron Paul could win if he ran.

Heck I can't think of anyone regardless of their party affiliation and with national stature worthy of being President and that's really worrisome and sad to me.

OF
October 26, 2004, 01:29 PM
Powell could beat Hillary. Handily.

As much as I love Condi Rice, she won't run. And she wouldn't get the black vote, either. Getting the black vote isn't about being black. Same with the women's vote.

- Gabe

Nick_90
October 26, 2004, 01:34 PM
Liddy Dole sure would make a fine president, and it would be fun having Bob as "first husband"... Such a pity he isn't finishing his second term this year...

Intune
October 26, 2004, 01:40 PM
Gabe, I believe most voters are woefully unaware of their particular party's platform and would tend to "impulse" vote/pick if it were a woman/Black they could readily identify with. Of course I don't have diddly to base this on. ;) "Feelings, nothing more than feeeelings, whoa, wo, wo..." :D It would be an interesting study which may already exist.

You may be right about Powell.

Mrs. Dole could work as well. Powell/Dole ticket?

Phil

SLCDave
October 26, 2004, 01:50 PM
It's hard enough ensuring the loyalty of someone born and raised in this country, can you imagine the scenarios it would open up if a foreign-born candidate could run for the presidency?

So you're saying you wouldn't vote for a ticket consisting of Oleg and Kim du-Toit? :neener:

The Rabbi
October 26, 2004, 01:53 PM
I think that would be aiming low in Oleg's case. I'd vote for him for
Tsar Of All Russias.

You heard it here first.

Selfdfenz
October 26, 2004, 01:56 PM
Ron Paul, Peroutka, Rice, Keys

I pretty much up for a vote anyway you cut the deck prez and vice prez wise.

Libby Dole.....

bwahahahahahahahahahahahhahhah...er..uf..:barf:

S-

R.H. Lee
October 26, 2004, 02:18 PM
Heck I can't think of anyone regardless of their party affiliation and with national stature worthy of being President and that's really worrisome and sad to me.
Ditto, Amen and Hallelujah. This country has had a leadership vacuum for many years.

Intune
October 26, 2004, 02:43 PM
What attributes make for a great President?
Bill Gates? Has economical skills.
Donald Trump? Has leadership in spades.
Pat Robertson? Deep convictions.

Would we vote for any of the above? See what I mean? Is it some type of "complete" package person?

Werewolf
October 26, 2004, 03:28 PM
Would we vote for any of the above? See what I mean? Is it some type of "complete" package person?YES!

Now the question is what makes a complete package?

Integrity
Honesty
Intelligence
Experience
Credibility
Charisma
Common Sense
Stature
Public Speaking Expertise (Bill Clinton had this in abundance)

Add to the list and name anyone that fits the bill...

Off hand I can't think of anyone that does.

Intune
October 26, 2004, 06:33 PM
The first two are the biggest hurdles for most politicians!

This could get very interesting if people start listing their picks and we "investigate" their choices.

The Rabbi
October 26, 2004, 06:49 PM
I think Alan Keys has all those qualities and he is totally unelectable.

The biggest quality necessary is simply the ability to get elected. That is one thing Bush has over a lot of other people who doubtless could do a better job, like Dick Cheney.

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