[chutestrate]

Looking for some advice from experts. My wife and I are adopting in a year or so, and I am beginning to think about changing the guns that I have in the house for h.d. I am using a Browning HP and a S.A. Loaded, but I think that maybe a couple of hk p7m8's might be a better choice. I think the 9mm is an ok caliber. I am wondering about the squeeze cocker being more child proof than other guns. Plus I want one or two, always have. My guns are locked up except for the hd guns, and those are not easily accessible by children. Any thoughts?

Anybody interested in doing a little horsetrading? I'll have a list of guns to trade a little later.

[BlkHawk73]

The P7M8 is a great gun - I love mine. The only concern i'd have about it being the unlocked and semi-accessable hd gun is that it has no safety. Granted it requires about 10-13 lbs of pressure to squueze the cocking lever but only a few to hold it. There's no seperate safety lever that would need to be de-activated. Regardless of where you keep something, little hands can find it. (Got a 3yo - I know)So, I'd say go ahead and get the squeezers just so long as they are kept in a location so as to be accessable by those that it should be and not at all by those that it shouldn't. Just take time to get used o the manual of arms. It's fairly instictive but is different to those unacustomed to it.

[XavierBreath]

First off, how old is the child?

IMHO the best thing to do is not to child proof the guns but to gun proof the child. Take children shooting. Teach them safety. Teach them and teach them some more. Mine started out at 5 years old with a Ruger MKI. Now they not only respect guns as potentailly deadly tools, but they are pretty good shots as well. Don't make the guns the irresistable taboo. Educate the children instead.

[chutestrate]

Good advice that I am on board with. Right now we don't have the baby, hence the adoption in a year or so. When we bring the baby home it will be a newborn. I'm not to worried about access yet for a few years. When our child is old enough firearm education will begin.

Thanks for the advice.

[redbone]

While I agree totally with XavierBreath (and I did just that with my kids, who are now both grown and shoot better than Dad), I firmly believe that the only responsible thing to do is LOCK THEM UP (guns, that is....). Mine were until I really trusted my kids to know what they were doing, probably about age 14 to 15.

My advise is based on my own childhood experience. My Dad kept his rifle and shotgun in the back of his closet. I was curious. Lucky for me, the guns were unloaded. Many times I had them out just minutes after my parents were gone. Human nature at work.

My policy with my kids was that I was always willing to unlock the guns and let the kids handle them under my supervision, almost any time they asked. Went shooting a lot, beginning with a BB gun (rifle first, then a pistol) and working up from there.

Worked for us. There is just no room for second chances with the little ones.

Get a bedside safe for your HD gun, and keep it LOCKED UP. Everything else in a safe, even if its a $100 deal from K-Mart.

Regards, and good luck with the young marksmen and women.

RBH

[Feanaro]

Like redbone, I base my opinion on childhood experiance. Mine was almost the exact opposite though. My father had(and still has) a Remington Model 11 in 20 gauge, which his father had before him. I knew where it was but I never touched it. At first because I thought, in some vague way, that my father would appear in a thunder-clap and blow my skin off. :) Then because I finally learned what "dangerous" meant. Of course, there were no handguns in this equation. It really depends.

Education works best, I think. But there are some concepts children are not capable of understanding at certain ages. So you have to choose. Lock them up, hide them, or hope education works.

[Nick96]

As stated previously - it doesn't matter what kind of guns you have. Lock them all up. Kids are like truffel sniffing pigs. If there is an unsecured gun in the house - they will find it. Few, however, will use bolt cutters, blow torches, crow bars or sledge hammers to get to them (though in rare cases some do). So REASONABLE security is usually sufficient.

There are no child safe table saws, swimming pools, open second floor windows, pill bottles, boiling pots of liquid, sharp knives, etc. - and there are certainly no child safe guns. And, no amount of training or familiarity with your children about such things is going to assure that they won't do stupid kid things. You have to take extream measures to anticipate these hazards and protect your children from them.

Sorry, but until they reach legal age - you are completely responsible for what your kids do (unless of course you are an irresponsible adult).

[jc2]

To tag onto redbone and others, you have to throw children other than your own into the equation once they start bringing friends over.

The best solution (though it can be a bit of a PITA) is to keep your weapon on you when your at home. Another possible option is (and one I used on occassion) when I wanted to have a weapon ready and convenient was to leave a round in the chamber, safety on, and the magazine in my pocket for autoloaders with mag disconnects like the S&Ws (or cylinder open and a speedloader in my pocket)--this entails all other magazines/ammunition is secured.

Basically, there is no good solutions.

[Atticus]

No offense...but as a father of three, I would be more concerned about the child getting his or her unsupervised hands on it PERIOD than the type of action. Even if they can't work the action, they would likely pound it on something, or pound the gun with something else. I'd advise carrying it, or locking it up. At least You have a few years to consider the options.

[mtnbkr]

Like the others said...

I got in the habit of keeping my guns locked up when they weren't on my person shortly after finding out my wife was pregnant. I wanted it to be habit by the time our daughter was born.

Chris

[ricedw]

I just bought one of these quick access safes this weekend at a gun show.

http://affordablegunstorage.com/HG%20-%20ADG%20-%2033013.htm

I was concerned with being able to get to my pistol very fast when needed.
This is one of the cheaper of this style safes that I've found. Not secure as far as keeping a BG from cutting it open or anything like that. But my only concern was keeping it out of reach for the kids and their freinds.

[Nickotym]

I am in the gunproof your children camp, but also believe the only loaded gun that should be in the house while little ones are there is the one on your body. IOW carry the gun if it is loaded and lock it up if not carrying it. My oldest two (8 and 6) have been out shooting several times with me and so has our 4 year old. The 2 year old has to wait a couple more years.

[Mrs. Armoredman]

We have a 4 year old son and we have a safe in the closet so little fingers can't get to the firearms. Armoredman my hubby put a belt in back of the headboard with a holster attached to it and our son has not figered it out. You might want to try that and see if it works for you. We have Safety First products for locking the cabinets and drawers. We also have baby gates up for keeping him out of places we don't want him to go.

I am happy to hear that your adopting a baby. Congrats on your soon to be new arrival.

[mtnbkr]

I am in the gunproof your children camp
While I agree with the concept, I think too many people toss that out there as if it were an acceptable solution when the child in question is under 3yo. I'm not sure I'd trust a child under 5 to absorb, understand, and follow firearms safety training.

but also believe the only loaded gun that should be in the house while little ones are there is the one on your body
I agree. I do keep a couple handguns loaded in the safe, but they're HD guns and aren't left unsecured.

my hubby put a belt in back of the headboard with a holster attached to it and our son has not figered it out
I'd be afraid of that method. My daughter has already started looking behind the bed when standing on it (she likes to drop her pacifiers down there). It'll work until it's discovered by a curious kid (aren't they all?).

My solution is a main safe for the long guns and non-HD guns. I have a bedroom "fast access" lockbox for the HD handguns (two in case I take one to the range). The only guns that are out of either of these two "safes" are either on me, in pieces on the workbench, or being readied for a trip to the range or camp. Loaded guns are never left "laying about" unattended. Ammunition is not left out with the guns, even if they are in pieces on the bench.

Chris

[nomadboi]

Even gun-proofing your kid won't help when there are friends over, etc... there's only so much you can do.

I'm expecting my first baby any week now, and am eyeing the Steyr M9 or M40, with the built in lock and multiple safeties. Key would probably live on my keychain.

I've also got a 'toy room' full of swords, knives, blank fire guns, and other film/theatre props and martial arts toys... it'll be getting a padlock on the door as soon as baby can crawl.

Nice fire safe, though. Thanks for the link. I might have to pick one of those up if I get the handgun.

[Serpico]

Of course yuo never want to leave it out for them, but a P7 is much more child proof than any saftey that can flicked on or off...I don't know what age a child can squeeze the cocker, but I don't thin any child under 5 could muster up that much strength...

[CommanderPoopyduX]

I would not leave any loaded gun of any type in a place a child could potentially reach it. Kids are creative and they will find some way to get the gun to go off. If you dont feel secure with the type you currently have, simply changing styles won't help. I would try to find a place where any gun would be safe, and then stick with that. And simply trusting your kids to know better is asking for trouble. Even if they do, when they have friends over, and the two get their minds together......it is a whole lot better to avoid any potential accidents than to leave it up to chance.

One idea I have is if you have a tall dresser, gun in one drawer and mag in another. While it would take you a few more seconds to have it ready, the chance of a kid finding both, inserting the mag, and chambering the gun is very very slim.....but there is still that chance........

[ricedw]

One idea I have is if you have a tall dresser, gun in one drawer and mag in another. While it would take you a few more seconds to have it ready, the chance of a kid finding both, inserting the mag, and chambering the gun is very very slim.....but there is still that chance........ ,

I wouldn't be comfortable with that personally. If the kids are gonna be snooping in the dresser, I would bet that they will find both. But you did say a tall dresser so that method would work for a few years in chutestrate's situation.

[Chipperman]

I have two 3 year-old boys, with another on the way.

If a gun is not concealed on me (or otherwise under my direct control), it is locked up. PERIOD.

[sgt127]

My boys, 11 and 6 are pretty gun proof. Since they were old enough to ask, they got to see dads guns anytime they asked, they have both been shooting. I have intentionally left an unloaded gun laying on the coffee table, one of them will walk by, see it and come tell me that there is a gun laying on the table, exactly what I want them to do. But, there are no house guns. There is ONE gun that is unsecured in the house and it is ON me. Period. If I go to the bathroom or take a shower, I lock the door behind me. At night, it goes in a little gun safe by the bed. My biggest fear was wrestling around and the gun falls out, they reach to hand it to me and a finger goes into the trigger guard. So, all the Glocks and cocked and locked's are in the safe and I have either a DA revolver or an HK P7M8 on me. Can't say its the best idea, but, it works for me and I feel good about it. Best wishes, good luck.

[CommanderPoopyduX]

I definately think educating your kids about guns and letting them know what they are, instead of keeping them a big secret, is one of the best things you can do for them.....but as I said I would never rely on their education and "knowing better" to keep them safe.....when you are talking about kids better safe than sorry can not be stressed enough.

[Super Trucker]

Why not keep the guns you are familiar with, but just lock them up? Look into the Gun Vault products or something similar, I can get my gun out in 2.5 seconds and it makes me feel a little more comfortable with kids in the house. A couple hundred dollars is cheap for the safety of the kid and yourself. Also follow what everybody else says about educating the child about the guns.

[chutestrate]

Thank you all very much for the advice. Some of the ideas I didn't even consider. I'd like to keep the guns that I am familiar with so I will be going out to get a couple of lock boxes. I showed my wife this thread, and she was very impressed with all of the ideas. You guys are awesome. However, you guys squashed my argument with my wife about needing a couple of different guns ;) It's all good.

[Swamprabbit]

Being a father of three, I strongly vote for keeping whatever guns you like but KEEP THEM OUT OF REACH OF THE CHILDREN AT ALL TIMES. For me, this meant that I keep all but my carry gun in a safe. My carry gun is just that - it gets carried. If I'm just around the house and not carrying, even that one gets locked up somewhere.

Kids are curious creatures and if it CAN happen, it WILL. I strongly advise away from the notion that any particular gun will be child "resistant".

Also, I agree with all the stories regarding how we were as kids with our dad's guns but today's kids are different. With video games and other things, they are much more active and more prone to getting into things because they get bored easily. Myself, when I was little, I could be content in reading a book or playing my guitar - today's kids feel like they need the constant stimulation of the level of a "shoot-em-up" video game.

[roo_ster]

I just went through the same deal, as my boy arrived 15OCT.

Get a bedside safe for your HD gun, and keep it LOCKED UP. Everything else in a safe, even if its a $100 deal from K-Mart.

This is the way to go.

All my guns are either:
1. Unloaded & locked up.
2. Loaded & locked up in quick-access bedside safe
3. Loaded & on my person

Possible Options
1. Unloaded & locked up.
* Closet with a deadbolt
* Big gun safe
* Locked file cabinet
2. Loaded & locked up in quick-access bedside safe
* Several makes available, both electronis & totally mechanical. I got mine from Wal-mart & it hold 1 full-sized 1911, 1 snubbie, & 1 tiny Kel-tec
3. Loaded & on my person
* Safest location for any of my guns, IMO.

We plan on teaching our boy about gun safety, but that will be in the future, when he can understand.

[stealthmode]

remove firing pins on weapons not being used if not stored in a safe and lock them anyway

if you have one out and ready for self defense make sure that it is locked in like a gunvault or other and keep an eye on the kid, but i think education is always key to prevention.

[Richardson]

I'd go along with gunproofing your child and keep using what you're using. BUT, I would store the guns without magazines and carry a loaded magazine with me. It takes little time to put the magazine into the gun.

Richardson

[carpettbaggerr]

I don't thin any child under 5 could muster up that much strength... I'm sure the kid could put the squeeze lever against the edge of a table, or rung of a chair, and lean his body weight on the back of the gun. They could rack a pistol that's in Condition 3 in the same manner.

And you can use the drawers of a tall dresser like steps, or rungs of a ladder, opening them as you climb.

Keep the guns locked up.

[Pete1953]

I have at least one loaded gun in each roou and my with as well as both daughters (16 & 11) know how to use them. They are all locked in quick access lock boxes that only my wife and I know the code. I carry around the house, on the property, etc. but they are safe from hands. We all know safety rules but they stay locked. In the bedroom numerous guns are made available for when we go to bed, but our bedroom door is locked when we sleep at night. Always keep your guns locked up or under your control and you should do fine. As the kids get older start with Eddie Eagle,then at ~8 if they are mature to learn safe gun handling - but only with your permission and in your presence.

[lawboy]

I am with chipperman. i have a 5-yr-old daughter. she has gone shooting a couple times, she handles the handguns under my supervision at home and helps me clean them. she also helps me do my handloading. but the guns stay locked in a 1,200lb safe. period. if someone breaks into my house when i am home then i will be stuck because my guns are always locked up and always unloaded. my h.d. concession is simply this: at night when I got to bed i load one handgun and place it on the shelf beside me. in the morning, before i take a leak, i unload it and lock it back in the safe. that is it. other than that the guns are locked up and unloaded.

now, another issue i've read here that puzzles me is the having friends over thing. my kids will never have command of my residence without an adult there. giving teens command of a residence without adults if foolish. it is like asking them to handle all the family finances for a year. they are not mentally capable of doing it. it is not their fault, nothing is wrong, they just have not got what it takes yet. the same goes for asking them to be responsible in a residence as a group without supervision. the definition of what they are at that stage in life precludes them from consistently being able to make the necessary decisionsto carry it off. NEVER LEAVE TEENS UNSUPERVISED IN A RESIDENCE. NEVER ALLOW YOU KIDS TO BE AT ANYONE'S HOUSE UNLESS THERE ARE ADULTS THERE YOU KNOW TO BE RESPONSIBLE. these are my rules. ymmv.

[jamz]

1. Lock your guns up, except for HD guns, and lock those up too :) in a fast access safe. A hundred bucks is nothing for good peace of mind, and you can open it in a second or two.

2. Gunproof your kids, like everyne has said.

3. Teach 'em the Eddie Eagle deal, but in addition to this, TEST them (naturally with a quadruple-checked, 2nd party verified, unloaded), mag-safed, internal trigger-locked gun. They'll fail the first time or two, and pick it up and be curious about it. After you bust them a few times with these tests, they really will start to remember "Stop, Don't Touch, Leave the area, Tell an adult.." stuff.


Good luck, and above all, stay safe. :)

-James