Impact munitions info


October 27, 2004, 02:33 PM
As a followup to the SIMs debacle......

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October 27, 2004, 03:23 PM
Interesting read. Based on the study, the less-lethal munitions were 100% non lethal when fired from a range of 30 feet or more*. Serious injury could occur based on where the munition strikes the target, but nothing was fatal beyond 30 feet.

There were two accidents where the officer had loaded something besided the less-lethal munitions they thought they intended.

Overall, I would rather take my chances with a bean bag to the chest than a 12 gauge slug. But, like voting for Bush instead of Kerry, it is the lesser of 2 evils. :D

As a LEO, how do you feel about using a dedicated air-rifle type setup like BPD has as opposed to a shotgun based system? Do the risks of accidentally using the wrong round outweigh the costs of having to support a second weapon system? Would an air-rifle setup allow you to turn down the power for close range targets, thus further reducing the number of accidental fatalities or serious injuries, or would it just be something else that could go wrong?

* 2 fatalities were inconclusive due to lack of data

October 27, 2004, 07:09 PM
Personally, I favour a seperate less-lethal system whether it be an FN303 or a Remington 870 with orange furniture.

Less-lethal systems get used during very high-stress moments, and with all that adrenaline flowing it's best to keep things as simple as possible.

If you have an orange 870 that is only ever loaded with bean-bag rounds, or a distinctive widget that only fires specialty rounds, then it's a simple matter of glancing down to see if you've got the less-lethal set-up.

Easier under stress conditions to glance down, than to jack open the shotgun, grab the shell, check the shell and then replace the round or swap it for another one that you also have to verify before loading.

We are absolutely forbidden to tinker with the gas/valve systems on a air-powered widgets. The gas/valve set-up is tuned at the factory and it stays where the manufacturer put it. Keeps the lawyers happy.


October 27, 2004, 07:25 PM
My preference would be for the dedicated shotgun system that LD describes, typically a shotgun with either a colored or different stock. Being less expensive means more training, plus the troops are already familiar and qualified with them.

The purpose built systems like the 37mms, ARWENs, Pepperball and whatnot may be more sophisticated, but frankly I'd rather have more SIMs guns on the street versus a specialized rig that only a few people are checked out on that lives in the station or rides on the battlewagon. Though for large crowds and riots, from what I've seen the bigger systems have a distinct advantage.

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