What if Kerry wins?


PDA






Edmond
October 28, 2004, 11:01 AM
Haven't you guys thought of the possibility of Kerry winning? What's going to happen?

Right now, I think a coin toss could decide who will win, it's that close.

I kind of find it unsettling.

If you enjoyed reading about "What if Kerry wins?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
critter
October 28, 2004, 11:23 AM
VERY unsetteling indeed. We'd get:

The most liberal 'Kennedy clone' ever as pres
Mrs. 'SHOVE IT' Kerry as first lady
A total 'tax and spend' AND 'tax and give-away' govt ever
BIG government very intrusive into our lives in every area
A 'global', 'one world' view of the USA's interactions at the expense of
our own sovereignty
An anti-military com-in-chief
A person WEAK on defense
A person WEAK on foreign policy
Appointments of several LIBERAL supreme court justices
More repressive gun laws than we've ever seen
Socialism like the world has never experienced before

among other things.

OF
October 28, 2004, 11:27 AM
I'll just quote a friend of mine when I asked what he was going to do later on on election night 2000.

"Depends. If W wins, I'm going to eat some reheated Chinese food. If Gore wins, I'm going to eat my .45"

- Gabe (he was kidding...of course...but you get the idea)

shermacman
October 28, 2004, 11:32 AM
We already know what will happen. Even though Jean Fraud Kerry has absolutely no legislative record in the Senate, we need only look at how he has voted on other people's bills:
Higher taxes, ridiculous regulations, gun restrictions, more governmental control, more governmental intrusion. The steady destruction of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
We need to vote on Nov. 2. George Bush is hardly the perfect candidate, but those of you who stay home because you didn't like Bush AWB position, or who vote for the Libertarian party are going to deliver this country to Kerry, Schumer, Feinstein and Kennedy.

Reno
October 28, 2004, 11:48 AM
I've got an M4gery coming tomorrow. Just beat the election by the skin of my teeth. I trust neither of them to do anything to protect our rights, but at least Bush won't go on the offensive.

Could be a very, very long 4 years.

hm
October 28, 2004, 12:07 PM
The steady destruction of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

:rolleyes:
Again with the "end of civilization" nonsense. Y'all are the same one's (figuratively-speaking) who warned of an 'end-of-the-world' scenario in '92 if that wacko-liberal Bill Clinton got elected. Aside from a ridiculous, (and now dead) AWB, we enjoyed great prosperity and a lot more global peace than we do today...thanks to what Bill did and didn't do.

Go ahead...air out all your knee-jerk neo-con arguments here and now about how Kerry=Apocalypse. Bring it on! Why? Because once all of you doomsayers have posted your predictions (and provided Kerry wins) I'm gonna save all your comments and meet you right back here in four years to see how things are going.

My guess is you'll be pretty evasive about owning-up to the heat-of-the-moment comments many of you can't help but air out in these final days before the election.

Global events under a John Kerry administration will look a heck of a lot less like the 'Prophetic Steps Toward Armageddon' that W has brought about...and we'll all still have our guns.

ojibweindian
October 28, 2004, 12:21 PM
hm

Kinda getting all worked up over some "neocons" venting, aren't you? You sure you're not a bit worked up yourself?

My personal opinion is that we're screwed regardless of who wins. Why do I say that? Because, in my opinion, Americans today are just too damn lazy and stupid to care about anything other than immediate hedonistic gratification. The number of us who have a clue are abysmally small. Too small, I think, to make any real lasting effort to combat the stupidity painfully evident to any somewhat intelligent observer.

Joe Demko
October 28, 2004, 12:24 PM
I'll try not to get hit with pieces of the sky as they fall to Earth. :rolleyes:

Edited to add: Ojibweindian makes an excellent point regarding us getting screwed either way.

GSB
October 28, 2004, 12:27 PM
Aside from a ridiculous, (and now dead) AWB, we enjoyed great prosperity and a lot more global peace than we do today...thanks to what Bill did and didn't do.

We enjoyed prosperity that was built on a lot of loose financial sand that ultimately couldn't support it, and upon ridiculous predicitions of nonsensical growth rates extending out to the horizon.

As for global peace, one would assume that the Yugoslavians, the Somalis, the Rwandans, the crew of the Cole, and a host of other populations would probably wonder where all that global peace was, exactly, in the 90s. Just because people weren't getting hacked to death with machetes in your backyard doesn't mean the world wasn't a violent place ten years ago.

tulsamal
October 28, 2004, 12:29 PM
As long as we hold onto the House and Senate, we can survive. We would have to go back to trying to stop things rather than trying to pass laws that favor our position. It would be a step back but it wouldn't be the end of the world (at least in domestic policy).

Now how it could end up screwing us up in Iraq is a totally different question. Whoever is President next year is going to need a lot of luck in that part of the world.

And Kerry getting elected in 2004 _really could_ help up in 2006 and 2008. I shudder to think of the hysterical opposition in 2008 if Bush wins this year!

The one domestic area that really will be a problem is the Supreme Court. Can't deny that. But the nominations have to get through the Senate. Probably the worst case would be that Kerry would be forced to pick moderates in order to get them through. That's probably better than having extremists of either side in the Court anyway.

Hope for Bush but prepare for Kerry.

Gregg

charby
October 28, 2004, 12:31 PM
Get up and go to work, listen to my co-workers heckle me about voting for the loser GW Bush. Try to scrape up enough loot to purchase a semi automatic military looking rifle before Jan 21. With evil flash hiders, pistol grip and bayonet mount.

Pray that after Jan 21 that we don't get to liberal with uber high taxes to pay for the "free lunches" that Kerry is trying to promise. Hope that the UN doesn't take off on a New World Order or change their by laws to allow a Sec General from one of the five nations, i.e. Clinton at the helm.

Hope that Legislative stays Republican and Hope Kerry screws the pooch so bad that America will wake up and see the light and vote for our best interest in 2008.

Charby


If Bushs wins all my coworkers will be emailed this link

http://static.vidvote.com/movies/bushuncensored.mov :neener:

jefnvk
October 28, 2004, 12:31 PM
Guns will still be here in four years.

Not every gun will be here in four years, though. I honestly think that if the Dems think they could pull it off, all semi's would be banned, or maybe put under the NFA. Think its far-fetched? There was support to give the ATF the authority to ban all centerfire ammo whenever they seen fit.

If Kerry is elected, a new AR-15 will be mine. I was too young to get in before the first AWB, and I'm sure not gonna miss the boat this time. I want one before they become as expensive as a registered MG.

tulsamal
October 28, 2004, 12:41 PM
If Kerry is elected, a new AR-15 will be mine. I was too young to get in before the first AWB, and I'm sure not gonna miss the boat this time.

Every single "military style" rifle I currently own I bought after 94. And they were made after 94. FAL's, AR's, CETME, AK's, etc. Unless you live in a bad state, you have ALWAYS had the ability to go buy an AR-15. The lack of a bayonet lug on my M4gery doesn't make me sleepless at night.

Sure, I was glad to see the AWB expire. But let's not overstate how bad it really was. Stupid and ineffective, sure. But we were all getting the guns and magazines we wanted anyway.

Gregg

MBane666
October 28, 2004, 12:59 PM
My general thinking, and the thinking of a lot of smart RKBA people regarding a Kerry Presidency, is this:

Most of the stuff he's spouting on the stump about foreign policy and huge domestic spending programs won't fly, especially if Congress stays basically unchanged. That will leave him looking for "targets of opportunity" to (pick one) assure his "legacy," assuage fears about his manhood ("LOOK! A goose!" BANG!) or just show his core constituency that he's doing something other than occupying space until the Gulliani Presidency in 2008.

Our basic fear is that *WE* are the ideal target of opportunity. We hit all the bases...he can carve his legacy out of the Second Amendment, make the core Democractic special interest groups wildly happy and prove how he "stood up" to the Big Bad Gun Lobby.

Will there be guns at the end of a Kerry Presidency? Of course. Will there be "assault weapons," "lookalike assault weapons," ".50 caliber anything," standard capacity magazines, civilian transfers, gun shows as we presently understand them and about half of the current firearms manufacturers? Probably not. We can also be assured of some sort of anti "sniper rifle" initiative; I would also not be surprised to see a move against the practical (i.e., scenario-based) shooting sports.

Tell me again how there's "no difference" between the two candidates!

mb

OF
October 28, 2004, 01:01 PM
But we were all getting the guns and magazines we wanted anyway.Maybe you were. It is my right as an American to own military weapons. The price has been driven through the roof by legislation. Only now that is coming down will I likely be in a position to buy the rifles it is my right to own.

The AWB was more than a nuisance. Much more. Don't make light of it.

- Gabe

OF
October 28, 2004, 01:05 PM
Don't forget either, Mike, that they're both lawyers. Think 'big tobacco' had it bad? With enough lawyers you can make an end-run right around congress.

Bend over and spread 'em.

- Gabe

PS: Good show on Rogers' Shooting School the other day.

hm
October 28, 2004, 01:14 PM
Will there be guns at the end of a Kerry Presidency? Of course. Will there be "assault weapons," "lookalike assault weapons," ".50 caliber anything," standard capacity magazines, civilian transfers, gun shows as we presently understand them and about half of the current firearms manufacturers? Probably not.

I'll definitely be looking for you to back that one up in four years.

OF
October 28, 2004, 01:21 PM
He's not going to be in a position to know, hm, none of us are. Kerry is done for. There is no way that this country will put that man in the white house at this point in time. It will never happen. Not only that, but I predict, as I have for months, that it will not even be close.

But hypothetically, the only things that would stop Kerry from evicerating the 2nd Amendment, gun owners and gun manufacturers would be political fear or a congress in stiff opposition. The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. Your man has quite a past in this arena. Check it out sometime.

- Gabe

fjolnirsson
October 28, 2004, 01:40 PM
I'm praying that America isn't stupid enough to elect that Kerry creature.

tulsamal
October 28, 2004, 02:04 PM
He's not going to be in a position to know, hm, none of us are. Kerry is done for. There is no way that this country will put that man in the white house at this point in time. It will never happen. Not only that, but I predict, as I have for months, that it will not even be close.

I laugh every time somebody says this. Not because it is necessarily wrong but because it is EXACTLY what the most devoted say on the other side!

I hang out a lot at a computer list that is mostly very well educated Democrats. I always feel like I'm outnumbered 100-1 over there. But they are CONVINCED that "America isn't dumb enough to fall for Bush again."

It really does have to make you laugh!

Kerry MAY not win. But it will be close.

Gregg

OF
October 28, 2004, 02:17 PM
But the thing is, we're at war and in war. Bush is the hawk and Kerry is the dove in this race. Historically, Americans do not elect or change to doves when war is on the horizon or the country is threatened with violence. Whatever you think about it, history shows, when we're threatened Americans want to see major ass being kicked. Kerry is not going to sate that thirst for pro-active aggressive anti-islamofascist action.

Just because the other side says the same thing doesn't mean they're right.

- Gabe

hm
October 28, 2004, 02:23 PM
Kerry is done for. There is no way that this country will put that man in the white house at this point in time. It will never happen. Not only that, but I predict, as I have for months, that it will not even be close.

Anyone who claims to know with certainty the outcome of the 2004 race is either a partisan hack vying for votes or smoking something illegal.

fast97rs
October 28, 2004, 02:25 PM
Friends,

The only thing that Bill "Blow me...theres a future in it" Clinton did... was set Osama Bin Laden free....

After the USS Cole was attacked by terrorits headed my Osama... the Saudi Arabian Govnment was able to capture him and asked Mr. Clinton what he wanted to do with the terrorist bastard.... Clinton "went limp" on the subject and and let the Saudi's deal with Osama...

Since Osama had not commited a crime against them... we was released... thus he had time and the US granted freedom to be able to plan for the attack on the world trade center... ironically right after Clinton handed over the country to Bush.... who's father had previously began the war on terror.....

We must hold onto the House and Senate... they are our last defense... if we loose them too... our guns/rites/freedoms... go out the window... Kerry is a Commy.... thats why the N. Vietnamese loved/love him so much.... i guess he loved them long time too.......

And while we're on the topic of 'Nam... i find it odd that the President has released his military info. to the people, thats why we can ridicule him... while Kerry has not... i find it funny that someone could gain so many medels in ~4 month period......here.... http://www.scaryjohnkerry.com/ ... go educate yourself on the man you want to call your leader and make the leader of the "Free World"...

You can go against the war in Irag till you are blue in the face... the war was justified... since SoDamnInsane decided to break the peace treaty by trying to rearm/obtain nuclear proliferation... the "original" Gulf War really never ended.... thus the President could have marched right in with out even asking Congress, or "Permision" from other lesser Nation States. But rather he did... and we went in.... I am not pro war, i am pro PEACE/Justice/FREEDOM..... a wise man once said... "You want peace... prepare for war!... I have friends who are in the USMC... they have no problem going to serve thier country... those who do should not have joined if they are not willing to fight.... its alot like a butcher who does not want to touch meat... or a carpenter who does not like wood.... you get the idea... if you can't hack it.... pack it in! There are no free rides in this world... some peole join to get the free schooling/pensions/respect.... well i guess that they are going to have to earn the right to call themselves Marines, rangers, and National Gaurd now..... I guess Semper Fi (Always faithfull) is a creedo that only some Marines swear too now.......

P.S.
Bush might not be the best or smartest President ever... but he's a good, honest to God man... who is willing to do the right thing, even though its not popular.... America needs a leader... not a push around.....

The wind blows Kerry in every other direction... i wonder how far the Terrorists will push him...

I guess noone remembers the Cuban missle crisis when the USSR thought that Kennedy was also a push over and decided to place nuclear in a location only 90 miles off US soil........

Edmond
October 28, 2004, 02:47 PM
You know what a lot of people think? They think that if Kerry were elected, all the problems that the nation is having today will suddenly vanish. That's not going to happen with Kerry, Bush, Nader or anyone else.

Is the economy weak right now? Yeah, but people make it sound like electing Kerry will instantly bring it back to a surplus and people will be making $80K a year and everything will be fine and dandy.

As for firearms, I think that Kerry will clamp down on us. And states that are bad on guns like IL and CA will just get worse. Look at Chicago! No guns and all that crime.:uhoh:

OF
October 28, 2004, 02:48 PM
is either a partisan hack vying for votes or smoking something illegal.Well, seeing as how I'm registered independant, could care less how you vote and am stone sober, I guess there goes that theory :)

- Gabe

scbair
October 28, 2004, 03:07 PM
I'm actually optimistic that Bush will win for two reasons:

1) The mass media outlets spin everything to favor Kerry; if they're saying it's a dead heat, GWB must have a significant advantage.

2) While the GOP has never mastered the 11th hour dirty tricks as has the Democratic Party, GWB has an "unintentional ally" in 2004: THE CLINTONS! If Kerry wins, Hillary will have an uphill battle in 2008. I'm awaiting the "October Surprise" engineered by the Clintons to sink Kerry's ship.

It's always fun watching rats fight. :cool:

Sam Adams
October 28, 2004, 04:34 PM
I think that Bush will win by 4%-5%, and will have in excess of 300 Electoral Votes. Even if he does, we'll have litigation that must be resolved by the Supreme Court. However, there is always a chance that Lurch could win. So, here's my scenario (take note, HM, I'll stand behind what I say now):

1) Regardless of the Presidential race, the Republicans will pick up 2-3 Senate seats and about 10 House seats. Thus, if the Republicans want to stop anything that Kerry proposes, they'll be able to do so, except for Executive Orders and foreign policy-type decisions. Of course, this will require that the Republicans grow a collective pair of stones, but I think that being out of control of the Executive Branch will help to facilitate that result. Nonetheless, the federal judiciary will become far more Leftist, thereby continuing and even accelerating the marginalization of most of the Constitution.

2) There may be some slight increases in taxes, but there will be LOTS more regulation of all types. Look also for lots of additional legislation in the area of the environment, and look for actual or threatened litigation to effectively control several industries (oil, guns, possibly drugs). Look for thousands of doctors to be leaving practice, as the regulatory stranglehold on medicine will grow tighter, driving down physician compensation. We won't be doing much additional drilling for oil (forget ANWR) or making any new refineries (still - we haven't done this since the late 1960's), so the price of oil and gas will remain high. Look for subsidies for solar energy, conservation and fuel cells.

3) Regarding guns, I am quite pessimistic. The Brady Bunch and their fellow travelers have been uniquely ineffective for the last 4 years because of who was in the White House. Kerry was right in asserting that Bush could've lobbied for the renewal of the AWB (and I'm damned glad that he didn't) - which is exactly what Kerry will do. I agree with MBane666 that he'll have to show dramatic "progress" somewhere, and since he'll have a decided lack of that domestically, we gunowners will be a big fat juicy target. After all, how many people own ARs, AKs, etc., and how many of them are very involved politically? We are, let's face it, an easy group to demonize, and most Republicans in office don't give enough of a damn about gun owners to put up with the public ridicule and accusations. Here's my list of coming restrictions:

a) The AWB will be back, bigger & badder. The list of banned guns will be longer, the list of permitted restricted features will be down to 1 of the 5 for semi-autos, instead of 2. Kiss your newly-produced semi-auto guns goodbye. Mags will once again be limited to 10. All of this will be PERMANENT, so that getting rid of it will be very much more difficult. It is POSSIBLE that a new AWB will have a grandfather clause, requiring registration. That won't go over well, and will have 90% plus non-compliance, but it will be on the books nonetheless. Look for such a thing if there's a massacre of schoolkids with a "permitted" version of a banned semi-auto.

b) .50 cal. guns will be either outlawed or treated as NFA guns on a national level.

c) Kiss gun shows and private transfers goodbye. All you need for that to pass the House and Senate by 99%-1% majorities will be one Beslan-type incident. Hell, such an incident could be used to justify an outright confiscation of semi-autos, but I WON'T predict that (but under President Hitlery I would).

d) Further restrictions/higher costs for FFL's, severely reducing the number out there (thus reducing competition and increasing prices - and insidiously reducing gun ownership by pricing more people out of the market). Possible disappearance of the C&R license, especially if some politician is whacked with a 75-year-old "weapon of war."

e) Possible restrictions or big taxes on the sale of smokeless powder or primers (either one will kill reloading).

I doubt that Kennedy and Kerry will be able to get almost all centerfire ammo effectively banned, but they'll use the threat of trying it to obtain something else (like the ban on private transfers). Once we swallow all of that, more will come, though it may have to wait for a different President.

4) Foreign and defense policy - here will be the real disaster. Kerry's mere election will embolden terrorists and nations that wish to see us at least taken down a peg. We'll end up pulling out of Iraq like we did in Vietnam, because even though Kerry will try to stay there for a while (to show how tough he is), the knowledge that we're leaving will cause many attacks on our troops, hastening the exit. The only other country besides England that will stick with us will be Israel, and the terrorists and the nations that support them will grow stronger. Look for at least one massive attack on US soil within a year after Kerry takes office - and be guaranteed that he, the rest of the Dems and the MSM blame Bush for it.

China will become an increasing threat, especially as Kerry begins to propose cuts to future weapons systems. After a couple of years of cuts, the Republicans will do what they did in the late '70's - add stuff into the budget that the President doesn't want.

2008 will be an interesting political year, just as 1980 was. Probably the results will be similar - because the public can elect freaks like Carter and Kerry, but we can't keep them around for very long.

5) Look for a number of 1sts from the First Lady, including telling some foreign leader that he's an @sshole.

tulsamal
October 28, 2004, 04:44 PM
4) Foreign and defense policy - here will be the real disaster. Kerry's mere election will embolden terrorists and nations that wish to see us at least taken down a peg. We'll end up pulling out of Iraq like we did in Vietnam, because even though Kerry will try to stay there for a while (to show how tough he is), the knowledge that we're leaving will cause many attacks on our troops, hastening the exit. The only other country besides England that will stick with us will be Israel, and the terrorists and the nations that support them will grow stronger. Look for at least one massive attack on US soil within a year after Kerry takes office - and be guaranteed that he, the rest of the Dems and the MSM blame Bush for it.

I definitely agree with this one. It worries me more than the gun stuff. We can fight long and hard on that one. Foreign policy is run by the President though and we won't have much input.

What's that expression? "Poisoning the well?" That's basically what Kerry has done with Bush and Iraq. He has had to make the whole thing sound so ill-conceived and flat out doomed that he won't be able to hold the line there even if he wants to. The majority of the people who elected him will be screaming for us to withdraw. As the attacks increase, those screams will get louder and shriller. The only solution will be to say that, "This isn't my fault. Bush left me with this disaster" and withdraw. And that WILL have a very bad long term impact on US foreign policy.

People always like to talk about "the lessons of Vietnam" but they seem to overlook one of the biggies on a regular basis: be loyal to your allies and don't leave them when things get tough domestically. A lot of small countries stopped trusting us after we bailed on South Vietnam. The same thing will happen over Iraq if we run out before we finish the job. No matter how much blood and treasure it costs us, the alternatives will cost more.

Gregg

Gordon Fink
October 28, 2004, 04:51 PM
Sam, you predict an awful lot of anti-gun legislation coming out of a Congress that you also predict will be even more under the control of our “pro-gun Republican friends.”

~G. Fink

Roon
October 28, 2004, 04:53 PM
The only thing I know for sure is that I'll be buying a RR carbine, and I'm not an M16/AR15 lover. Kerry co-sponsored the last attempt at renewing the AWB, and also strengthened it to elimate certain weapons.

True, it takes congress to go along, but if we have another Columbine, who knows what will happen. Congress is a mass of pandering idiots, for the most part, in any event.

Yep, buying that carbine.

hm
October 28, 2004, 04:53 PM
Sam,

Duly noted.

Don't go too far away...I'll only need about two years (instead of four) to debunk some of your predictions...not to mention the "Democratic Revolution" of 2006.

R.H. Lee
October 28, 2004, 05:08 PM
IF Kerry wins (big IF), I'm gonna sit back and watch the circus. Think about where we are now and what might happen over the next 4 years. For example, there is NO WAY any president will be able to stop a terrorist attack here sometime in the next 4 years. We get to see Kerry take the heat and sooth the blubbering masses. Illegal immigration is nearing critical mass and will have to be addressed. The national debt is staggering; when will inflation begin again? We've become a nation of consumers of cheap third world sweatshop produced junk; that cannot continue indefinitely. Plus more and more of our 'citizens' will be clamoring for .gov handouts and Kerry will have to deliver or become a one termer. Healthcare is already beginning to be rationed and it will get worse as there are fewer and fewer providers and more and more demand. heh. We can't even provide ourselves with enough flu vaccine or pharmaceuticals-even individual states are looking to Canada now. I fully expect him to deliver a healthcare plan for every American equal to what members of Congress now have. Oh, and it will be entertaining to see him and Edwards make Christopher Reeves arise from his wheelchair and walk.:p As far as any goofy gun controls laws he and his buds may pass, molon labe, lefties. Besides, it will be a hoot to whine, complain and criticize every little thing. :D

fallingblock
October 29, 2004, 04:35 AM
If Kerry wins, gunowners will lose - big time.

Look for:

Permanent AWB and the ending of legal private sales at gunshows and pressure to end private sales in general.

Expanded powers for BATFE.

Bans of selected semi auto firearms.

Renewed litigation against firearms manufacturers.

Euphemize "anti-gun John" all you want, his election will be a disaster when compared to our relative gains of the past four years.:scrutiny:

And you can own up to it should (heaven forbid) the time come.;)

If you enjoyed reading about "What if Kerry wins?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!