ATF busts guy in Oregon


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Lupine
October 29, 2004, 03:18 AM
Following is the story from our local NBC affiliate's website; I was alerted by the news broadcast, which elaborated to provide footage of a variety of guns, and they mentioned AK-47s and "military machine guns". They also showed a sticker on the door, stating "This home is armed...."

They also reported that the guy had a dislike for the government, and had attended police academy but never joined. He had a Medical Marijuana card, but had exceeded the permit by, oh, about 100 plants.

Beaverton is a middle-class 'burb of Portland.

All I can say is, "Thanks, buddy, for perpetuating the stereotype." :banghead:


Arsenal of war-time weapons seized from Beaverton home

06:20 PM PDT on Thursday, October 28, 2004

By ABE ESTIMADA, kgw.com Staff

BEAVERTON – Federal and local law enforcement agents raided a Beaverton house that was apparently used to store an arsenal of high-powered weaponry that is typically found in military hot zones such as Baghdad.

Police display military-style, .50 caliber rounds found inside a Beaveton home.

Perhaps most alarmingly, behind the home where the weapons were found is McKay Elementary School on 7485 SW Scholls Ferry Road.

Among the weapons seized at the house on 7420 SW 101st Avenue was a belt-fed, semiautomatic .50 caliber anti-aircraft gun mounted on a tripod. The weapon was fully loaded and facing outward toward neighbors’ homes, said Beaverton police officer Paul Wandell.

Had the .50 caliber been fired, it would’ve “destroyed the neighborhood,” Wandell said.

“The rounds will go through the engine block of a car,” he said. “They’re designed for penetrating power.”

Also taken from the split-level house was a German-made, .726 caliber machine gun also mounted on a tripod and loaded to open fire. Investigators worked into late Thursday afternoon to carry out the cache of heavy weaponry, which also included an unknown number of armor piercing and ordinary rounds, Uzi submachine guns and AK-47 assault rifles.

Authorities also took 110 marijuana plants from the house.

U.S. Marshals took 30-year-old Jason Thomas Laureno, the owner of the weapons, into custody on Thursday.

Wandell would not say why Laureno had collected the weapons or whether more arrests were pending. Nor would he say how long Laureno had been under investigation.

But Wandell did say that Laureno was part of a cross-state investigation that extends all the way to Florida. Beaverton police and federal agencies plan to share more details about the weapons bust during a news conference on Friday morning.

Neighbors had said the home was relatively quiet, but they noticed anti-United Nations signs at the house.

“My feeling is that the neighbors were completely unaware of what was inside the house,” Wandell said.

Wandell would not say if Laureno was part of or affiliated with any right-wing, extremist groups that typically espouse these types of views.

“Working for city agencies, I’ve never seen this type of weaponry seized in a home before,” Wandell said.

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Warren
October 29, 2004, 03:30 AM
No indication that he did anything evil.

artherd
October 29, 2004, 03:39 AM
other than the pot, no indication he even had anything illegal...

Clean97GTI
October 29, 2004, 03:45 AM
They'll railroad him for the pot and his rights will be forfeit as a felon.

They won't get him on gun charges (unless he did actually have a "machine gun" without the tax stamp and what-not)

Lupine
October 29, 2004, 06:09 AM
I guess you guys should have seen the actual broadcast. The neighbors said he'd made threats involving the guns. As much as I don't trust network news, I don't exactly think this guy is a shining example of the majority of gun collectors. If any of you think having a fully loaded 50 cal. gun pointing out towards a densely populated area (if that was indeed true), perhaps I'm wrong.

But I'm mostly appalled by comments in the reporting.

Whatever. I'm not trying to defend any position. Just passing along what I saw.

Smoke
October 29, 2004, 10:16 AM
Well, I don't have any belt fed weapons, no machine guns, no assault rifles and no marajuana plants....but where can I get an Anti-U.N. sign to put in my yard?

The article makes it sound like the sign was an issue.

Sounds like the guy needed to go down and the media and anti crowd we'll have a field day with it. ATF will milk the thing for all it's worth too.

Smoke

Henry Bowman
October 29, 2004, 10:42 AM
Thanks for the extra information, Lupine.

Regarding the reporter's comments:
Perhaps most alarmingly, behind the home where the weapons were found is McKay Elementary School on 7485 SW Scholls Ferry Road.
Please explain in detail why is that cause for alarm?

Had the .50 caliber been fired, it would’ve “destroyed the neighborhood,” Wandell said.
Really? :rolleyes: Is it because if it passes within a few feet of you the shock wave will tear you arm off? :uhoh: Or is it because you were playing the suburban story to your bed wetting liberal Portland audience?

hammer4nc
October 29, 2004, 11:13 AM
Other reports said the man had legally owned machine guns and a silencer. So, he was licensed and approved by the ATF (passed extensive background checks).

He also was approved for medical marijuana. Sanctioned by the state.

So, if we are to believe the story, the offenses involved are only paperwork violations; i.e., the man had more items than he was legally permitted.

Ask yourself why the authorities would publicize possession of legally obtained reading materials, yard posters, hearsay from neighbors, or stickers on his door? Why spread out the offending items on a tarp in the front yard?

The obvious answer, straight out of the handbook, is a conscious effort to demonize the suspect in the media, and public opinion. Lets say this guy is going to be charged and have a trial (reasonable assumption). What is the effect of this media activity on the potential jury pool? Would it make them more/less impartial as jurors? The honest le agent would be concerned with such things. Those days have long since passed. Agency budgets must be justified.

Another thing. As it stands now, the case hinges on on the testimony of a single undercover agent. Here's a man thats paid by the state to lie for a living. Of course, the ends justify the means, and his lying immediately stops when he hits the witness stand. At that point he's sworn to tell the "whole truth". Yessir. Anyone ever wonder how much of this case was actively encouraged by this "agent provocateur"?

Ian
October 29, 2004, 11:30 AM
Dang, where can I get a German-made .726 caliber machine gun?

Langenator
October 29, 2004, 12:51 PM
if we are to believe the story, the offenses involved are only paperwork violations; i.e., the man had more items than he was legally permitted.

Unless he was licensed by the state as a medical marijuana supplier, as opposed to user, 110 plants is quite a lot.

Nevermind the fact that they're still a federal crime even if he does have a permission slip from the state of Oregon.

Chipperman
October 29, 2004, 12:56 PM
I bought a box of .726 cartridges last week, but I put it down and can't find them now.

Can I borrow a magnifying glass from anyone?

:rolleyes:

R.H. Lee
October 29, 2004, 01:07 PM
Most people would eat up the hyperbole and sensationalism in that article. That's what's really 'disturbing', as Tom Daschle would say.

hksw
October 29, 2004, 01:30 PM
Saw a snippit of the story on FOX News this morning. The German gun was an MG42 on a mount. It looked like they had spread everything out on the lawn (including linked .50BMG ammo) for the cameras. It'll be interesting to see what the real story is.

DigitalWarrior
October 29, 2004, 01:37 PM
Exactly what Anti-Aircraft gun is semi-automatic? Belt-fed sure, but semi-auto?

Had the .50 caliber been fired, it would’ve “destroyed the neighborhood,” Wandell said.
Destroy the neighborhood? Come on officer, surely you know that isn't true.

Edited to Add: And if someone can explain to me how you shoot into the air with a bipod, I would love to know.

JohnBT
October 29, 2004, 01:46 PM
"The weapon was fully loaded and facing outward toward neighbors’ homes"

Looks like he violated the rule against not pointing a loaded weapon at anything you aren't willing to destroy.

The guy sounds like a real whack job.

John

Bruce H
October 29, 2004, 02:16 PM
Somebody needs to shove a fifty round up Wandell's rectum and remove his ignorant posterior. Sensationalizing jerk neds a big attitude adjustment.

LiquidTension
October 29, 2004, 02:38 PM
Chipperman - how could you lose rounds that size? It said .726 caliber, not .726mm :neener: Not that either exists, AFAIK...

Even if the guy was unstable, if he was smoking his product he was probably too chilled out to go out on a shooting rampage anyway. Pot is not like harder drugs that have extremely addictive properties - crimes are rarely committed to pay for weed, especially since it is cheaper than alcohol in many places. This guy apparently didn't have money problems anyway.

The only problem I have with the situation (given only the supplied info) is the sheer amount of pot he had. If he just smoked some recreationally, that'd be different. But 110 plants is a target for rival dealers, and any confrontation that took place at the residence could turn real nasty with that kind of firepower laying around. Not that I have a problem with the firepower of course :D The combination is just bad.

carpettbaggerr
October 29, 2004, 02:53 PM
“The rounds will go through the engine block of a car,” Just like my .357 :scrutiny:

Looks like he violated the rule against not pointing a loaded weapon at anything you aren't willing to destroy. I doubt he violated that rule. :uhoh:

Carlos
October 29, 2004, 03:05 PM
KGW is worse than the friggin Oregonian.

The marijuana angle should prove interesting, since the question is a 4473 question and he managed to get this past the ATF on his Class III?
110 plants was pushing it a bit far.

Sindawe
October 29, 2004, 03:21 PM
110 plants was pushing it a bit far.

I have to wonder, how old/what size were the plants? Were they seedlings? Were they mature plants? Sorta makes a difference. Not legally I know, but it does in a cultivation sense. When you start seedlings for vegetables and the like, you start way more than you intend to finally cultivate, then cull out the weaklings.

?My feeling is that the neighbors were completely unaware of what was inside the house,?

Well, yea. I'm unaware of what goes on in my neighbors homes, unless it intruded into my home via noise, they do in front of open windows, or it comes to the attention of our HOA via massivly increased water consumption. So long as it does not intrude into my life, I've no cause to know what goes on in my neighbors homes.

Reporting of the caliber would do W.R. Hearst proud. :scrutiny:

Hkmp5sd
October 29, 2004, 03:29 PM
Looks like he violated the rule against not pointing a loaded weapon at anything you aren't willing to destroy.
The SxS shotgun over my fireplace can be considered "The weapon was fully loaded and facing outward toward neighbors’ homes." Just the minor technicality of a few walls in the way. I guess if it had been standing up in the corner, it would have been "facing skyward toward civilian airliners passing overhead."

Wandell would not say if Laureno was part of or affiliated with any right-wing, extremist groups that typically espouse these types of views.
I'm surprised they didn't include the statement, " but he did have a Bush/Cheney bumper sticker on his car." At least that would clinch the right-wing wacko label.

Otherguy Overby
October 29, 2004, 04:21 PM
fully loaded and ready to shoot

Uh, just what good is a gun that is not fully loaded and ready to shoot?

Yeah, I know the guy (as represented in the article) sounds like a wackjob. However, he'd not commited any crimes ('cept for fed drug persecution guidelines). Where was the intent? If there was a "conspiracy" what do you suppose the odds are on the co-conspirator being the police informant?

Now, about the .726 machine gun, any bets on it actually having a transposed numeral or two and also a misplaced decimal place? Would it be more likely a 7.62x39 something that's most likely just a normal old semi-auto. Seems the press is starting to use the term "semi-auto machine gun" lately.

The press/media is incompetent. They do little fact checking. I venture that anyone with a modicum of experience in whatever subject the media is reporting can find more errors than facts in said media articles.

We see it in most every gun related media article.

I see it in most every article on Real Estate.

I see it in most every article on motorcyling.

I see it in EVERY article regarding off roading and saving the environment.

I'd hate to have to fact check all the wild mistatements the media makes about global warming and the ozone layer.

BTW, once upon a time, long, long ago, I was a journalist of some sort.

Lastly, I'm pretty sure there are people out there who might consider me a wackjob. I live way out in the woods much of the time, and also spend a lot of time traveling in a motorhome. During most of this, several guns are ready, to go, including a carry weapon or two.

itgoesboom
October 29, 2004, 06:07 PM
Looks like this guy was involved in selling drugs. Apparantly, he shipped pot out of state, to an undercover agent in Florida.

So he not only violated Fed law, he violated Fl. State law, and he was well above the limits for Pot set by Oregon.

Not to mention, possesing firearms while doing drug trafficking is illegal.

He also talked to an undercover agent, and told them that he paid for the firearms through selling the drugs. He had some of the firearms set up aimed at the driveway and such. Looks like he was ready for a seige.

Got to love this quote " While explaining his drugs and weapons racket to the agent, Laureno said that “no one in Oregon cared if he possessed marijuana, but if (authorities) came to his house, they’d better be ready for war,” said Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms special agent in charge Kelvin Crenshaw from Seattle."

Even though the media often gets things wrong, just because someone owns firearms doesn't mean that he is a good guy. In this case, this is exactly the type of person that makes the rest of us look bad. Infact, its even worse, since the media just caught on that he also has a concealed handgun license.

I used to live just across the freeway from where this happened too.


I.G.B.

TallPine
October 29, 2004, 06:50 PM
That "belt-fed, semiautomatic .50 caliber anti-aircraft gun mounted on a tripod" sounds like just the thing I was looking for to mount on my deck railing. Kind of like the old swivel guns mounted on the rails of pirate ships.

:neener:

one45auto
October 29, 2004, 09:37 PM
Well, I don't have any belt fed weapons, no machine guns, no assault rifles and no marajuana plants....but where can I get an Anti-U.N. sign to put in my yard?

Funny you should ask that. Here you go. :)

http://www.un-freezone.org/resources.html

El Rojo
October 30, 2004, 02:31 AM
I first found out about this story on a AP video and knew it had to be here. On the video I watched I saw a AK-47, an uzi, the MG-42, what looked like a M2HB, lots of linked black tipped .50 BMG, and a pistol gripped semi-auto shotgun. They also kept showing footage of the MG-42 and whenever they said .50 caliber rifle.

My favorite part of the video was the neighborhood guy saying, "Well put yourself in out shoes, would you want that kind of ammunition and weaponry in your house next door? You know, you tell me. How'd you feel?" YES and GREAT! Lets go shooting neighbor and then toke one up! Well lets go shooting anyway. :evil:

JohnBT
October 30, 2004, 09:44 AM
"I guess if it had been standing up in the corner, it would have been "facing skyward toward civilian airliners passing overhead.""

Bwaahahahahaha...good one. Can I have some of what you're smoking? :)

John

Spot77
October 30, 2004, 09:57 AM
Read "Enemies Foreign and Domestic".


It'll sound remarkably similar to this.



I suppose I could be next since a middle school has been opened directly in front of my house, and I'm a Republican gun owner surrounded by houses on the other three sides.


Sorry, no illegal drugs of ANY kind on the property, but the story could easily read, "Although no illegal drugs were found during the raid, an anonymous police source told Upyourbutt News that they suspect Mr. Spot77 is a major player in the Baltimore crack cocaine network":uhoh:

Mulliga
October 30, 2004, 10:13 AM
I dunno.

On the one hand, it certainly raises an eyebrow that the guy has a CCW and legally registered MGs. I thought the background check after the Form 4 was pretty darn extensive. If that's the case, the only real crime the guy committed was shipping pot out of state.

On the other, the ATF, despite some of the bad apples, is mostly filled with good people trying to enforce the law (same as other LEO agencies). I find it hard to believe somebody would lie to arrest somebody when it's so much easier just to let the small things go and collect your paycheck with no hassle. If the guy was shipping pot out to some college kids, and happened to also be a gun/militaria collector, does he really deserve to go to federal prison?

Like many THR members, I have many "loaded" guns (condition 3). They are not "in safes" or "locked-up", they are where I can use them if I need them.

tyme
October 30, 2004, 10:25 AM
ItGoesBoom, what LOOKS bad is the BATFE and assorted other agencies skewering this person over paperwork vioations.

So what if he was ready for a siege? It sounds like his preparation was justified, given the interest the BATFE and DEA have in him now. If only one thing can be said about him, he wasn't paranoid.

standingbear
October 30, 2004, 10:26 AM
if I knew a neighbor had this sorta stuff..he better darn sure remember to invite me to shoot them too!Its unpolite to not share ones "toys".

I think the main issue was partially on his signage in the yard,the evil and scary "planet" destroyers he had and the dope...great stigma to get support for yet another AW ban rolling wouldnt you say?

kinda gets me thinking..why would the seized items be put out on display in the yard unless it was meant to scare the sheeple and get folks talking.ya'll know how things can be twisted around from one person to another.

on a lighter note,I have my house gun pointed at the sky too so it must be a satalite destroyer...why I bet it could even knock out the sun...if an 8mm german MG42 can destroy an entire neighborhood then surly a scattergun could wipe out an entire planet.

yep..the alphabet boys are having a field day. teddy,chuckie and diana are having a giggle fest.

patentmike
October 30, 2004, 12:02 PM
Come to think of it, if you drive down the street with your carry gun, it's "pointing at the whole neighborhood". Scary stuff. Could be a campaign for prosecutor helped along by a friendly reporter.

Linux&Gun Guy
October 30, 2004, 01:12 PM
It does depend on the state of the plants. What if 50 or so were new clones or mothers(seed bitches)? Some people smoke ALOT and need lots and lots of plants. I wonder what strains he grew; hopefully some nice Haze and Northern Lights.

Sounds like a guy that had a bit to many plants and liked gun collecting. Just like us exept sans cannabis(mostly).

DMF
October 30, 2004, 03:44 PM
I thought the background check after the Form 4 was pretty darn extensive. The background checks are not extensive at all. People need to quit acting like a person who has a few cursory checks done for a CCW or Class III weapons is getting TS clearance from the government. All they are really doing is a few quick database checks to ensure you aren't a criminal.

Now let's be clear on this issue of him having the guns legally. He was in violation of a few sections of Title 21 of the US Code by using, growing, and/or selling weed. Because of this drug activity he was a "prohibited person" under 18USC922, which prohibits anyone who is an "unlawful user or addict of a controlled substance" from possessing either firearms or ammunition.

You can debate your opinion of those federal statutes all you want, but don't pretend that there isn't probable cause to believe that he was illegally in possession of those firearms.

Derby FALs
October 30, 2004, 06:07 PM
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
GUN GRABBER

:o

DRZinn
October 30, 2004, 10:03 PM
On the radio this morning (CBS affiliate, FWIW) it was a "fifty caliber semi-automatic anti-aircraft gun" and "capable of shooting 500 rounds per minute." Same gun.

Semi-auto anti-aircraft?

Semi-auto shoots 500/min?

Right.

hammer4nc
October 31, 2004, 12:02 AM
...not to be outdone in the quest for journalistic accuracy, the UPI reported:

Beaverton, OR, Oct. 29 (UPI) -- An Oregon man was in jail Friday after federal agents allegedly found an arsenal of automatic weapons his home, including two heavy machine-gun nests.

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20041029-124433-8419r.htm

Nests? Nests! Saving private Ryan!

:D :D :D :D :D

tyme
October 31, 2004, 01:38 AM
More links:
http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=72202
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/109913756549470.xml

Downloadable copies of both videos from the KATU story:
http://www.thefiringline.com/video/20041030_OR/

Don Gwinn
October 31, 2004, 01:35 AM
I have a loaded SIG P220 pointed at my neighbor's house right now. I also have a great deal of literature that these dinks wouldn't likely approve.

And perhaps most alarming, behind my house is a Methodist church!


I also have a large number of pointy sticks in the garage.

WilderBill
October 31, 2004, 09:19 AM
It sounds like he wasn't hurting anyone and would have been OK if he hadn't attracted attention with the yard sign and apparently selling to an undercover agent in Fla.

What disturbs me more than the feds deciding to bust him is the media coverage of this whole circus.
They seem intent on sensationallizing a fairly dull story and they aren't about to let the facts get in their way! :scrutiny:

standingbear
November 1, 2004, 03:35 AM
wow..I want a machinegun nest,do they sell these at the farmers market?






good thing I still dont have my ak t-shirt cause the soccer moms might decide to report me to the authorities for being a gun nut if I wore it in public:D

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