11.5" AR15 barrels illegal?


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js2013
October 29, 2004, 12:05 PM
I see a bunch of companies selling 11.5" barrels and barreled uppers in Shotgun news. Isn't anything under 16" illegal? Are these short barrels targetted towards law enforcement or are they legal if the AR is configured as a pistol with no buttstock?

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nbkky71
October 29, 2004, 12:15 PM
The Gun Control Act of 1968 dictates that a rifle must have a barrel length of at least 16" and an overall length of at least 26". If either condition is not met, it is considered a short barreled rifle (SBR) and is subject to registration.

It is legal for you to have the 11.5 barrel as long as you permanently mount a muzzle brake/flash hider brings the length up to the minimum 16"

Straight from the ATF wbsite:

(7) The term "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.


(8) The term "short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

Chipperman
October 29, 2004, 12:20 PM
In addition to using a <16" barrel on a registered SBR, you can also put any length barrel on a machine gun.

So people who can use these include:
1. SBR owners
2. MG owners
3. People who permanently attach a FS or brake to increase the length to 16+
4. AR pistol owners

444
October 29, 2004, 12:29 PM
I have no way of knowing exactly what upper you are referring to, but an 11.5" barrel with a 5" flash suppressor is a very common AR15 upper. It gives you the look of the old Vietnam era CAR15s.
If the upper you are referring to is 11.5" OAL, then this is an NFA item and you must apply for a tax stamp.
One of the things that makes these very short AR15s popular is that with a suppressor attached, it is about the same OAL as a normal 16" barreled upper. Law Enforcement officers like this set up for CQB. It reduces the flash, report, and blast of the carbine while maintaining a minimum OAL for manuvering.

HankB
October 29, 2004, 06:57 PM
If the upper you are referring to is 11.5" OAL, then this is an NFA item and you must apply for a tax stamp. I don't believe an upper is an NFA item, since it is NOT a firearm . . . there are a number of AR15-based pistols on the market, and adding an 11.5" upper to an AR15-based pistol is OK federally, as long as you don't add a buttstock as well. (Be aware of any local/state laws that may apply.)

You can't just go into your basement and make an AR15 rifle into a pistol legally, and if you add an 11.5" upper to an existing AR15 rifle, or add it to a lower which was sold as a rifle lower, THEN you have a Short Barreled Rifle, which may earn you a stretch in Club Fed if you don't have your paperwork in order.

Hkmp5sd
October 29, 2004, 07:10 PM
and if you add an 11.5" upper to an existing AR15 rifle, or add it to a lower which was sold as a rifle lower,
Not quite. If you have an 11.5" upper and an AR-15 (rifle) lower, whether or not they are attached to each other, ATF says you have a SBR.

ATF goes so far as to say that if you own an M16 and an AR-15, you can possess one <16" upper for the M16, but if you own two <16" upppers, you are in possession of an unregistered SBR.
The definition of a firearm in section 5845 of the NFA includes a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length. An individual possessing more than one short (less than 16 inches) barreled upper receiver for a registered AR15 machinegun along with one or more semiautomatic AR15 rifles would have under their possession of control an unregistered short barreled rifle, a violation of the NFA.
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter90.txt

Badger Arms
October 30, 2004, 03:05 AM
Wow, I had to read that six times to figure out what it means. It's saying the same thing as the Thompson Center case all over again. Didn't they get thier hands slapped hard enough that time? I'll just avoid the issue altogether. Good shooting guys.

TODD3465
October 30, 2004, 03:15 PM
Yep if you get one make sure you have an AR lower REGISTERED as a pistol.

Badger Arms
October 30, 2004, 07:06 PM
Todd,

I might be wrong, of course, but I think the following is true:

So long as a receiver does not leave the factory as a rifle and it is FIRST built into a pistol, it is FOREVER a pistol. You can then change it freely from pistol to rifle and back again so long as it was FIRST built into a pistol and didn't leave the factory as a rifle.

You must ensure that you NEVER build the gun as a rifle without at least a 16" Barrel on it or else this would constitute the making of an SBR without first registering and paying the tax. Of course, this is bad.

TODD3465
October 31, 2004, 02:02 AM
Yep that's the long of it. Pun intended.:D

Didn't have time to post more as I had to scram for work.;)

guy sajer
October 31, 2004, 10:35 AM
The Gun Control Act of 1968 dictates that a rifle must have a barrel length of at least 16" and an overall length of at least 26". If either condition is not met, it is considered a short barreled rifle (SBR) and is subject to registration.

I always thought it was the Act of 1934 that regulated machine guns as well as short barreled rifles and shotguns ?

As for the 11.5" barrel question , you can have a 11.5" barrel on your civilian legal AR type rifle only if the longer 5.5" flash hider is permanently attached to the barrel . I bought a new Bushmaster back in '93 in this configuration .

DSA is presently making this carbine as well . As another member mentioned , it has the appearance of a Vietnam era Commando model .

http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=DSZM4CV1XM&storeid=1&image=cv1xm.gif

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