S&W Sigma Good,Bad, or Ugly?


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Hawkeye755
February 26, 2003, 11:20 AM
I was at the local gun shop the other day and the owner told me that he had just gotten some of these in at a really great price. I am looking to get something for the future wife so she will stop taking all of my guns and claiming them for herself. I figure that this will slow the process anyway.

Anyway, I have not really heard anything about them since they came out. Does anyone have any information about them. I did a search and didn't really find anything informative. A lot of people seem to hate them, just curious why.

And yes I am aware of S&W and the "sell out" to the government. I am more concerned with the quality, safty, handleing, etc. at this point. Any help woud be appreciated.

Thanks.

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NewShooter78
February 26, 2003, 11:26 AM
The most that I've heard about them from others is that its a cheap knock-off of what Gaston Glock has already gotten close to perfection. I'm sure that there are many threads about it back at the archives on TFL.

10-Ring
February 26, 2003, 11:37 AM
S&W Sigma Good,Bad, or Ugly?

Well, 2 of 3 anyway! There are alot of good inexensive options & the Sigma isn't one of them. Try a search on TFL & see for yoursef.

Tropical Z
February 26, 2003, 12:02 PM
Awful-heavy trigger! I cant imagine your honey liking it.Get something else-maybe a Hi-Point compensated 9mm.Im betting she'll love it.For the price they cant be beat.

Correia
February 26, 2003, 02:42 PM
I got a couple of them (police trade in for a super price).

They work fine. Reliability is good. Accuracy is ok. Trigger pull sucks. Functionally they are decent guns, most of the folks who make fun of them never actually owned one.

It depends on what they are selling them for. Around $200 they are a good deal. Around $300 there are other guns I would buy first. Hi cap magazines are expensive. Standard mags aren't cheap. I got mine for $150 each. :)

Hawkeye755
February 26, 2003, 02:57 PM
Update.

We went down and took a look at the Sigma.I also let her handle a few more just to give her an idea of the differences. The Sigma handled nice, but you are right, the trigger wasn't great. Long and heavy. Otherwise it looked good.

She really liked the Springfield XD-9. They had one with a stainless slide. The trigger is ten times better. The glock she already knows, they also have a couple Steyr M9's there. While I happen to like them she didn't.

So it looks like we will...excuse me...She will be getting either a Glock or the Springfield.

Thanks for everyones input

Sean Smith
February 26, 2003, 03:06 PM
They are nicknamed "Smegma" for a reason. Total junk.

care-less
February 26, 2003, 03:34 PM
Wow, I am truly amazed!!! I have an early Sigma 40F. It is literally a copy of the Glock, with a true double action trigger. Have shot it up for 8 years now. No stoppages, no broken parts, has been an excellent weapon. Just been notified by Glock "perfection" that there is "another" factory upgrade, er..... I mean recall on my "perfected " Glock! Seems the frames on a whole years production are breaking. Rather than contacting the distributors and getting the junk back, they allowed them to be sold, and now it is up to the owners to wait for a new frame from Austria. I now have a 550.00 paperweight sitting on my desk. No matter what you think of S&W's past politics, they don't build a bad product, and if they have a problem with something, there is a Recall. How many recalls----er----I mean upgrades is this for Glock now? Buy the Sigma!:fire:

denfoote
February 26, 2003, 05:21 PM
Crap shoot!! You have a 50% chance of getting a good one. There is no middle ground with these pistols. The good ones work fantastic. The bad ones... :rolleyes:

rblack
February 26, 2003, 06:57 PM
Hawkeye,

I've got one of the Sigma's from the special price batch you're speaking of and I really like it. I've shot it quite a bit and find it to be pretty accurate and so far reliable. A lot of people bad rap the Sigma without ever having owned one. There are also a lot of other pistols out there that you may want to try out also.

Watch-Six
February 26, 2003, 07:12 PM
Sigma? I wouldn't buy one unless it was dirt cheap like Larry's deal. If you want real junk try the 380 Sigma. The Springfield XD would be a much better choice. Watch-Six

Jason Demond
February 26, 2003, 07:26 PM
I have 2 Sigma’s a 9VE and a 40VE. I have fired over five thousand rounds in each of the guns with out much of a problem. I have used the 40VE for CCW; I also picked up a few hicaps for it. The trigger was a little gritty, but it’s ok now. The Sigma seems to carry around a bad rep. I think it's because of the bugs in the first generation of Sigma’s and from the people who think Glocks are the next best thing to sliced bread. I know that Glock took S&W to court over the design of the Sigma and S&W lost. I know one guy that told me my gun was a piece of crap, I asked him if he ever shot one and he told me no. He never even handled one before, he was only going by what someone told him.

Nero Steptoe
February 27, 2003, 11:49 AM
I'd rather French-kiss a DemocRAT than own a Stigma. I've found Glock's customer service to be excellent. "Recalling" potentially defective frames isn't as simple as some would think. Many owners don't send in the warranty cards; many Glocks are resold in private sales that require no paperwork.

chevrofreak
February 27, 2003, 12:32 PM
Have her take a look at the FN Forty-Nine. They come in either 9mm or .40S&W, and have a very very nice grip. The trigger pull is rather heavy though, but for around $325 they're hard to beat.

Handy
February 27, 2003, 12:55 PM
Is the sigma the one with a felt buffer pad in the frame? I seem to recall it falling out in some endurance test after its release.

care-less
February 27, 2003, 05:57 PM
I will repeat: Buy the Sigma! Back when they first came out, Modern Gun Magazine did a test on them. Packed with mud, run over with truck, frozen, etc. Sound familiar? They could not get it to malfunction. I have had the same experience. The trigger must go all the way forward after a shot to reset; so in that respect the Glock is faster. Glock sued Smith because except for that feature they were IDENTICAL. Smith was forced to make some changes. Don't know what they were, I have an original (Glock with S&W stamped on it). IF you like Glock, I cannot understand why you don't like Sigma!:banghead:

Sean Smith
February 27, 2003, 05:59 PM
IF you like Glock, I cannot understand why you don't like Sigma!

Because you shouldn't belive what you read in gun rags? Because the real-world track record of the things stinks? Because you shouldn't encourage patent infringement?

:evil:

duncan
February 27, 2003, 06:20 PM
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=108360&highlight=sigma


Many people really like the ergonomics and feel of the grip. I did. Liked the way my SW40V Sigma felt in my hand
four years ago.

Then I took it to the range and had about 20 failures to feed, cycle, and eject with one box of
factory ammo. Over the next couple of days, I made several trips to the range with my new Sigma and shoot half a dozens brands and bullet configurations of factory ammunition and it continued to have multiple failures to feed and eject, failure of slide to lock back, magazine release button fell out.

So I got a refund for my money from the dealer. SW certified gunsmith couldn't figure out what was wrong with it.

Our corporate security force of more than 600 officers and investigators were issued more than 700 SW Sigma's four years ago.

The Sigma's issued to our corporate secutity department have had numerous:


1.Failures of Slide To Lock Open After Last Shot
2.Jams
3.Misfeeds
4.Striker Spring Failures To Ignite Primer and Round
5.Multipe Spring Breakages
6.Magazine Failures To Feed
7.Slide Stoppages
8.Cracked Polymer Frames
9.Broken Trigger Springs
10.Broken Slide Lock Springs
11.Cracked Slides



And these men and women are ex-military police, former police officers/detectives, and ex-federal law enforcement
agents from most of the agencies. A third are regular shooters.

They really hate those Sigma's and the contract one of security exec's entered into with SW. He was a big SW
revolver fan and hasn't had to qualify in years but signed his people up to a multi-year Sigma contract.

After all of the above problems, SW replaced all 700 + Sigma's with "upgraded" units a about a year and a half ago.

The problems have continued to this day.Still having problems with the new upgraded Sigmas in 2003!

The SW Sigma's are unreliable, poorly manufactured, inaccurate, and POS!

Save your money.

SW can't give them away. In three of Washington State's largest gun shops, the dealers refuse to carry the
Sigma's and will only special order them after a firm warning to the customer. They'll sell you SW revolvers and
older semi-auto's like the 1076, 3913, 5906 and so on but not the SW polymer Sigma's! They call them rubber guns
because they bounce back on the dealer.

Many of our security officers could not qualify with their issued Sigma's and others had to loan them other weapons
to finish just qualifying.

And forget it if the officer practices weekly with that Sigma. They don't hold together. The armorer is always
working on those guns.


If you like polymer, go with a Glock or an HK USP. If money is tight, grab a
Ruger, Taurus, or a CZ. Even the EAA Wtiness polymer series are a great buy.


But there are numerous other guns that will serve you well consistently. Save that money.

Kind of funny but our security upper management and corporate executive protection carry Glocks and
Sigs in 40Sw and 357 SIG. What does that tell you?

Look, maybe there are some good one's out there.

I'm sure some people were happy with their 1972 Ford Pinto's but
I still wouldn't throw my money at any Sigma. Not even $100 bucks.

The Sigma's have no resale. Call you dealer and ask what is the trade in value. Might as well buy a Lorcin or a Davis
next.

700 units is a huge sample over several years and at least 3 upgrades direct from SW. Confirmed DAWGS. How much more evidence is needed?

Don't buy your girlfriend a 50-50 Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday gun!

UPDATE:
Our security department is dumping the Sigma. And the Glock 22 will be the new issued sidearm.

care-less
February 27, 2003, 06:27 PM
Sean, sorry but my experience is exactly the opposite of you Sigma haters. I LOVE THIS THING......... ACCURATE, RELIABLE, BETTER ERGONOMICS THAN THE GLOCK, EXCELLENT. Nothing else I can say.:evil: :banghead: :neener:

care-less
February 27, 2003, 06:31 PM
Duncan, just hope the unsupported chamber in your new Glock doesn't let the brass go. Fingers don't regrow. Good luck ;)

care-less
February 27, 2003, 06:33 PM
Hawkeye 755 What do you think? Did we help ? Or are you sorry that you asked?:)

Handy
February 27, 2003, 07:55 PM
The comments might have helped, but I doubt he'll be buying one.

You have one gun that works. Multiple posters have seen multiple guns that don't. What conclusion would you draw?


I don't think a kaBoom has ever cripled anyone's hand, so that really just sounds bitter.

Hawkeye755
February 27, 2003, 09:42 PM
Wow I didn't mean to start a shooting war. :what:

Thanks for all the input, I took her down and let her handle several different guns. She liked the way the Sigma felt, but the trigger was a little long and heavy when compared to the Springfield so it looks like that was her favorite. I liked it too, but I will have to keep remembering that it isn't mine. :uhoh:

I was happy to get all the responses. Thanks to everyone that had an opinion, which is everyone around here :D

Al Thompson
February 27, 2003, 10:02 PM
Good night!

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