[MeekandMild]

I've been looking at standard capacity magazines.

Glock, Sig, Beretta, more Glock, a S&W, more Glock et cetera... its just not worth the effort.

So what if I'm surrounded by goblins? I figure that I can get the goblin captain (the one with Sauron's thumbprint on his forehead) with the first three rounds, the big goblin with the scimitar with the second three rounds, the goblin in front that's half drunk on elvish wine with the next three and then cap the little one with the toe cutter knife with the last round. All the rest will retreat into their cave and I can then proceed on to Mordor.

I can see having a standard cap or two for class III shooting, just to save the ruckus of having to reload so often at the range, but seriously, a pistol with fifteen rounds? Have I gotten old and soft living out here in the Shire with no orcs for miles around?

[JohnKSa]

Wow! You connected with EVERY round in a life or death situation! And ALL of the assailants you fired upon dropped after you shot them the predetermined number of times. And the rest of them reacted predictably.

That must be realistic--it's just like in the movies.

Need I say more? ;)

[Mulliga]

What if you run into a balrog? You'll need more firepower than ten rounds for sure, then. :D

[N3rday]

Well, a little extra ammo can't hurt, right? It's not like there's a disadvantage to using hi-cap magazines. Besides, even though ten is probably enough for most situations, its safer just to pack fifteen. Reloading when someone is running at you with a knife isn't fun, and you can bet that with the adrenaline flowing the reloading process won't expedite as quickly as you might want it to.

[itgoesboom]

I think someone has been spending too much time lately reading Lord of the Rings.

I.G.B.

[Jubei]

Reading?! You mean they're in books now too?!?:p

I didn't really need the hi-cap mags, I just bought 'em when the ban lifted as a kind of celebration.

Jubei

[pax]

Meek ~

What happens when you run into the Energizer Bunny on steroids?

Me, I want as much ammo as I can reasonably carry. Just like having a gun in the first place, it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

pax

A thing worth doing is worth overdoing. -- unknown

[cratz2]

Well, a whole lot of folks have been very well protected by 5 shot revolvers and 6 shot revolvers and 7 and 8 round semi autos for a very long time. Guess it just depends on your comfort level. Honestly, I've cerried 1911s, a couple CZs and couple SIGs and a couple Glcoks. I currently carry a CZ PCR with only a single 10-round magazine. I do feel bad for not having a full capacity magazine (I do have a few of the Pro Mag 40 Compact mags, but prefer to carry the factory mag) but if I open carried, it would be a steel frame 1911. And then, the mags I prefer only allow for 7+1 carry.

The overwhelming number of citizen gun uses against an unknown perpetrator don't involve a single shot and the overwhelming number of citizen gun uses against an unknown perpertrator that involve at least one shot, involve less than four shots. It's up to you to decide if you are planning for an expected scenario or a more unexpected scenario.

[gbelleh]

If you don't think you need 15 rounds, that's fine.

I usually carry a 7 shot 9mm pistol (with a P-32 BUG). I'm comfortable with that, but if I carried a Glock 19, I'd be sure to have 16 rounds in it.

Carrying a 16 shot gun with only 10 rounds in it (by choice) seems silly. Like loading a 5 shot snubby with only 2 or 3 rounds.

We carry guns just incase the unexpected happens. None of us can forsee what that unexpected event may or may not involve.

[Bobarino]

using that logic, you should only put as much gas in your car as you think it will take to make it to your destination and no further. what? road closed? detour? stuck in traffic? emergency Imodium AD moment? wife needs ice cream NOW!?

bad logic. the old cliche' applies: i'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

i have 25 rounds total on me when i'm carrying (which is always). odds are, i'll never need my firearm. odds are even more remote that i'll have to fire more that half a dozen rounds or so, but, see cliche' above.

Bobby

[MeekandMild]

OK, so stay with me now. Mrs. Meek dislikes carrying the weight of bullets in her purse. So she prefers a small tupperware pistol with a minimal number of them in it. Just enough to ventillate the biggest closest goblin. How to argue with that? "You want me to WHAT? You try luggin' this big purse around all day with thirty pounds of bullets in it and tell me to carry more!"

As for me I'd rather talk my way out of things after removing the biggest, closest orc. "OK guys, I can't really remember did I really fire seven shots, eight, nine or even ten, so ask yourselves. 'Do I feel lucky today?' Well, at least grunt among yourselves for a while until you develop a consensus as to which one is the next to bleed his yucky black gore all over the flagstones. Go ahead, take your time. I'll just back away here and wait for you to decide."

Again, like I say this is really embarrasing for me to bring up. Its sort of like saying I like my old pickup truck and really don't want a new car even if I could swing the payments.

Now on the other hand, if the companies involved would consider trade-ins...

[pwrtool45]

Only 10? It's your life buddy. Personally, I carry a Glock 20 with one 17-round mag (15+2) giving me 18 rounds in gun, plus the three spare 17-round mags giving me 69 rounds for my primary gun. I carry a Glock 27 as a BUG and keep one 10-round mag in it and two spare 10-round mags giving me 30 rounds for my BUG. I also keep a condition 3 Colt M4 with a Surefire tactical light and 6 30-round magazines in the trunk.

So, at any given time, I have 99 rounds on my person and 180 rounds in the trunk.

:scrutiny:

The "carry as much as you can" logic works both ways. At some point you draw the line saying "enough is enough." The liklihood of you needing some gawdawful round count is about the same as you needing to make a 50-yard shot. If you're preparing your "daily load out" for WWIII then you should probably spend less time on THR and more time trying to ping steel out to short rifle distances. :p Of course, nobody harps on that (outside the revolver forum, and for fun). I'd guess because 15-round mags are only $19.99 at CDNN, but finding specials on improved marksmanship is somewhat harder...

C'mon guys. Take a breath. Really. 10-rounds, 8-rounds, whatever you've got to work with. There are important things to argue about. This isn't one of them.

[Series 70]

When my wife carries, it's a 5-shot j-frame. No reloads. That *should* handle 95% of the extremely unlikely scenarios that cause her to fire. The other 5%? She's got problems.

Still, I'd rather she carry that 5 than nothing at all. We'll work on the reloads over time.

She also figures that me and my 20+ rounds will be with her. I hope we never find out.

[MeekandMild]

Actually my favorite carry gun is a 5 shot Taurus titanium .38, but I do carry a Glock or Beretta 9mm with 2 ten round magazines in the trunk of the car. One has to remember my state is a "duty to retreat" state. :what:

[JohnKSa]

This has got to take the cake for rationalization...

At least until someone posts that they leave a chamber or two empty in their revolver cause they don't need the ammo and it makes the gun too heavy.

[Parker Dean]

OK, I can see that, but what about Mutant Ninja Zombie Goblins? :D

[cracked butt]

Watch DOTD and then tell us how silly those extra 5 to 10 rounds in the magazine look.:neener:

[MeekandMild]

Seriously for a minute.

This isn't strictily pistol related, but an Uzi smg normally uses a 25 or 32 round magazine. That is roughly 6-10 squeezes of the trigger. It takes maybe 6-10 seconds to empty the magazine in a controlled manner, which is a long time in any sort of serious gunfight. It seems like a very short time at the range, with 32 FA rounds roughly time equal to 10 SA rounds.

Transposing this to a semiautomatic pistol which would be more jury friendly in a 'duty to retreat' state how much serious evidence is there that a 15 round magazine, maybe 15 seconds of firepower, would be that critical in a major confrontation?

[RugerOldArmy]

I think the tank of gas analogy nailed it.

[JohnKSa]

The gun is made to hold 15 rounds.

You can legally put 15 rounds in it.

You might NEED 15 rounds.

Court problems? Seems far-fetched. It's perfectly legal. I think you're going to catch a lot more flack for having a GUN than for how many rounds are in it. Typical defense is--I bought this gun because X LEO department carries it and I thought they must know what they're doing. End of matter.

Weight problems? Hard for me to believe few rounds will make a gun go from comfortable to uncomfortable, let alone packable to unpackable.

Size problems? The gun doesn't get smaller cause you stuff it with a neutered mag.

Probably won't need them. Yeah--you probably won't need the gun either. But you still carry it. What's more, the majority of the time a gun is needed, it's not fired. Gonna carry it empty? Might not/probably won't is a non-player.

Made up scenario doesn't need more than 10. Ok, my made up scenario requires 31. Why should your scenario be any more valid than mine? You'd better start carrying a full spare mag just in case my scenario turns out to be right.

Go back and read about the Miami Dade FBI shootout. Look at how many agents were killed or wounded by one man while trying to reload or after they shot their guns dry. If you go to the trouble to carry a gun, go ahead and fill it up. It would be terribly sad if you carried for years and then got killed because you needed 12 rounds but only had 10+1 because you chose to carry a neutered mag.

pwrtool,

A bit humorous but you missed the point. He's not talking about carrying BUGs and spare mags--he's advocating not loading the gun fully. How many people do you know who carry 3 rounds in their revolver to save weight and because they figure they'll only need 3? It doesn't make sense to go to the trouble to pack a hi-cap (fullsize) gun and then CHOOSE to use a neutered mag. Might as well use a hi-cap mag and only load it up halfway...

[MeekandMild]

OK, you guys win, whenever I get another $200-$300 to spare I'll get some regular cap mags.

Now this brings up another question. If you have, say a 15 round magazine do you load it to capacity or do you leave out a round or two so it will have less chance of jamming? Nothing quite as frustrating as trying to shoot and having a jam. :cuss: And if you don't load it to capacity, is it because you've had a jam before or just anticipate one or do you know somebody who has had a malfucntion or just superstition. Or do you just drop a cartridge into the chamber then pop the magazine in so everything is maxed out? Or do you load to capacity and then subtract one when you chamber the first round?

[joszx67]

Hello All,
I'm a newbie here on this forum but not a newbie towards guns. I just don't see any reason to be militant about high capacity magazines. I feel comfortable with my 8 rounds in my SW1911 because I practice on my shooting. Sure there are a lot of pistols out there that can handle a magazine that holds up to 15-20 rounds. Unless you are in the military or a LEO, if you are ever in the need to discharge 15 or more rounds in a life or death situation, you are in a wrong area where you shouldn't be or you associate with the wrong type of people. Unless you live in the Gaza Strip or a contractor in Iraq, you might need that firepower. Fortunately we live in the best country in the world and we have the right to bear arms to protect ourselves. I would skip the expense of buying high cap mags and invest in ammo to practice my shooting accuracy. I would rely on my skill and ability with my firearm to get out of a life threatening situation. A lot of rounds doesn't mean that you are any safer. To me, I just think it's a false sense of security. But as always, to each his own. Thank you for reading.

[joszx67]

Hello All,
I'm a newbie here on this forum but not a newbie towards guns. I just don't see any reason to be militant about high capacity magazines. I feel comfortable with my 8 rounds in my SW1911 because I practice on my shooting. Sure there are a lot of pistols out there that can handle a magazine that holds up to 15-20 rounds. Unless you are in the military or a LEO, if you are ever in the need to discharge 15 or more rounds in a life or death situation, you are in a wrong area where you shouldn't be or you associate with the wrong type of people. Unless you live in the Gaza Strip or a contractor in Iraq, you might need that firepower. Fortunately we live in the best country in the world and we have the right to bear arms to protect ourselves. I would skip the expense of buying high cap mags and invest in ammo to practice my shooting accuracy. I would rely on my skill and ability with my firearm to get out of a life threatening situation. A lot of rounds doesn't mean that you are any safer. To me, I just think it's a false sense of security. But as always, to each his own. Thank you for reading.

[JohnMc]

joszx67
I figure it'd be better to walk away alive, with extra rounds still in the magazine and the concomittant false sense of security that would give, than to be hurt because one was some number of rounds short of that required to retain that ambulatory state.

As others have said, it's legal and it's a right.

In any case, 8 rounds or 20, if you're in a situation where discharge is needed, someone could argue that you shouldn't have been there.

Following the original vein of the thread, I guess 10 rounds would work for the mutant zombie watermelon army and their milkjug overlords (kudos to whomever I stole that from.)

JohnMc

[JohnKSa]

I recommend downloading double-column mags by one to improve reliability. Especially if your particular model has a mag design that makes the last round unusually hard to load or difficult to insert and lock into place while fully loaded.

I see no benefit to downloading single column mags.

[natedog]

If the handgun you happened to shoot best with holds +10 rounds, why not take advantage of the capacity? Again, there are no disadvantages (beyond the girth of the grip, which is an advantage to some) in carrying more ammunition. Remember the old saying...

"No one has died wishing they had less ammo."

[RugerOldArmy]

Yes, why load with less than what a pistol was designed for. How many people load a revolver with two or more chambers unloaded?

(I do realize that some like the hammer on an, i.e. 1, empty chamber, due to safety concerns.)

[joszx67]

JohnMc,
I hope I never run into or be confronted by the Mutant Zombie Watermelon Army and their Milkjug Overlords. :what:

[Zach S]

The way I look at it is this: I can carry two 14 round magazines (one in the pistol + a spare) as easily as I can carry two ten round magazines, and I can buy them for about the same price. Why bother with a clinton mag?

[JohnMc]

joszx67

Somebody posted that bit about the watermelon army a couple of of months ago, in another thread, and I thought is was absolutely hilarious. So, of course, I stole it. Plus, it seemed to fit the tone of the thread.
:D
JohnMc

[mfree]

So, wait.... you're in the middle of a mountain full of orcs, and you *didn't* bring flashbangs, extre-bright flashlights, frag grenades, claymores, a Saiga-12 with extended magazine across your back, extra mags of magnum buckshot and slugs, and at least 2 glock 17s with the standard mags loaded and 30's on the belt?

Failed to prepare? Prepare to fail :)

[Fatelvis]

I think after downing the first "Goblin", things will be quite chaotic, and the last 12-13 rounds would be expended while moving to cover, and shooting while using cover. I doubt they will stand still while you methodically "mow `em down".

[Clean97GTI]

Most gunfights end in 5 rounds or less...most.

I sure wouldn't want to be the guy that has to fire more than that and not be able to. My FN Forty-nine (the handgun, not the rifle) only came with 10rd magazines (production started during the ban) so thats what I carry. I haven't been able to find any larger.
As soon as I do, I'll carry the 14 rounders.

Oh, those Uruk's are pretty beefy, I'd wager more on capacity than accuracy. I can hit a mark, but running, ducking, charging makes accuracy go to poo. Hit em in the big ugly head if possible, but be prepared to fire more than once.

[Mikul]

I don't download my magazines and they have yet to fail me in the last 3 years.

I carry the highest capacity magazines that will fit flush in the gun. For me, the bulk is the biggest problem and I have to carry the bulk anyway, so I might as well carry more ammo. I can't imagine being in any situation what I would say, "Gee, I wish I didn't have all of this ammo with me." I really DO feel better with 18-rounds on my hip.

Novice shooters commonly believe that every shot will hit it's target even when it's dark, raining, they're tired, the assailant is running, and their glasses are in the other room. The hit to miss ratio of the average police officer is 1:6. With that statistic, figure that your 18-round army gun is only going to hit the Balrog 3 times.

Look at the number of rounds fired in police shootings. Many seem to be over in 3 rounds, but you don't have to look far to find a shooting in excess of 40. I know one officer involved in a grocery store robbery. There was ONE robber. The police fired over 100 rounds. 1 hit the intended target.

[buzz_knox]

When you take into consideration the fact that the "less than 4 rounds expended in a gunfighter" statistic includes murders where 1 round was fired into the back of the head and similar one-sided "fights," the number of rounds you can expect to fire in a two-sided fight goes up sharply.

Look at it this way: if you have to use a firearm in self-defense, you are already statistically unlucky and behind the 8 Ball. Do you really want to hamper yourself by not carrying sufficient (if there is any such thing) ammunition just to save a few ounces of weight?

[Shane333]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not settling for less than a rifle (preferably in .30 caliber or higher) if I'm going into Middle Earth. Sure, orcs can be tough by themselves, but I want the extra firepower in case I come up against a troll or fell beast. Will 9mm or .45 even penetrate troll hide?

[JohnMc]

Gentlemen, if you're going up against stuff bigger than orcs, I suggest bigger rounds, in a semi (didn't the Tigr come in 9.3 x 60-something?) with at least 200 grains of solid mithril, to penetrate. At least full mithril metal jackets.. :cool:

[Shane333]

JohnMC,

I use adamant bullets. You can sometimes find a box or two at Rivendel for a bargain, but usually you have to go to Lonely Mountain for the stuff. They punch through mithril like a hot poker through butter. Only problem is that you can't get any expansion, so unless it tumbles you're not going to get a very large wound cavity. I save mine for Sauron's elite armored troops and for troll headshots.


Dain's a real stingy with this good stuff so expect to pay premium prices. You don't have a chance bargaining with his people. They've got the market cornered, and they know it. Fortunately you'll only need it for a handful of monsters.


Yes, I know. I'm a Tolkien geek. :D

[Marshall]

"Overpowered is usually adequate".


:)

[gaston_45]

The gas tank and revolver analogies don't quite work in this case guys. If you changed it to "if you could replace your gas tank so you can drive all the way across the entire United States of America in one tank why wouldn't you?" then that gas tank analogy would almost work. As to the revolver issue, it would work if you said " if you can replace your 4 shot cylinder with a 6 shot why wouldn't you?". You can download the magazine you have now as easily as downloading the cylinder.

I think ten rounds is enough if you don't want to spend more money on magazines. Heck, here in Oregon we have a big city pd (Portland) that AVERAGES 19 rounds fired for every bad guy down and that is with two or more officers shooting. At two officers that is less then 10 rounds each and they are TERRIBLE shots.

[shoobe01]

I respectfully disagree, gaston. Replacing a cylinder in a revolver with one of lower capacity might reduce the profile of the gun. The gas tank analogy works for me. Of course, I have been poor and put a lot less than a full tank in sometimes.

What annoys me about reduced capacity handgun magazines is the air in there. If you only need 10 rounds of Glocky goodness, carry a 26/27/etc.

If you go single stack, of any sort, that's the direction you decided to limit yourself and so 7, 8, 9 rounds is just fine again.

Just rubs me wrong to purposefully use the weapon in a crippled state.

Hicaps (full-caps, freedom magsTM, whatever...) should not be that much. Buy one at a time when you see a deal. Most seem to be dropping back into the $25-35 range for guns I and my friends own.

[walking arsenal]

What if you run into a balrog? You'll need more firepower than ten rounds for sure, then. :D


like what, a fire extinguisher?

[Blueduck]

OK, you guys win, whenever I get another $200-$300 to spare I'll get some regular cap mags.


I'm confused? I can understand that statement a few months back, but what kind of a gun do you have that it now cost $200-$300 for a couple of regular capacity magazines???

[nomadboi]

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/browse/Ntt-guns_Nao-1_Ntk-All_pv-hideousmonster.13731698_p-4_No-1_N-0

[Shane333]

like what, a fire extinguisher?


How about an RPG full of fire retardant? Problem is that even when their fire is extinguished, they're still powerful.

For Balrog, accept nothing less than .50 BMG.

[Magnum88C]

Something noone's mentioned is the fact that the plugged 10-rounders often do not function as reliably as their standard-cap counterparts.

My advice is to use the magazine the gun was designed to use, not a blocked one.

If the difference between 10 and 15 rounds makes the gun uncarryable, you've got bigger problems than what magazine to use.


If you're going up against Orc hordes, I'd take Burt Gummer's advice "In this situation I'd rather have something full auto, preferrably belt-fed."

[Sean85746]

I have had std cap mags throughout the Ban years. I have owned Hi Powers since I was 18...and never parted with any of the fine, Browning or old Ram Line mags that I had. Around 11 or 12 of them.

I had a Glock issued to me in 89, pre ban, and bought a bunch of mags for that one too. Then, when all I could get was LEO/GOVT mags...I had a badge to do it with.

BUT! Round count in a given gun was never the issue with me. Economy of size and good ballistic payload is the key for me.

A Beretta/Taurus size 9mm is too freakin big, and wastses too much freakin space for 10 rounds of 9mm.

A Beretta with 10 rounds of .40cal or a Hi Power with 10 rounds of .40cal was a reasonable payload, since they std cap mags ONLY held 11 rnds anyway. Same with the Glock 23 std mag holds 13 rnds, but it still has good econmy of size as a 10 shooter. I don't mind 10 rnds in that or my Smith 6906.

ANOTHER BUT!

I would still prefer 13 rnds in my Glock 23, 13rnds in my 9mm Hi Power, 17 in my Glock 17, 15 in my Glock 22, and 15 rnds in my Beretta...because it makes good use of space!

God Bless +2 followers too!

AND, having those few extra rounds is NOT A BAD THING.

The Ban was just another infringement on the rights of honest folk, and did diddley to curb crime. I know...I was there.

'Nuff said.