[Drizzt]

Teachers Harassing Soldiers' Children

Thanks to Trent Telenko for pointing this one my way. Apparently, the Maine National Guard Family Assistance Center has received about 30 complaints from children of deployed soldiers concerning harassment by school officials. Most of these kids are between 7 and 9 years old.

WABI- TV Bangor Maine | February 21, 2003 | 6 PM News


Alan Grover, WABI-TV: "What the kids are facing is hearing that [from Principals, Teachers and/or Guidance Counsellors] their mother or father is a bad person for taking part in the confrontation with Iraq; comments that are coming from teachers. That's according to officers with the Guard’s Family Assistance Program who've been traveling throughout the state this week. The officers report that such incidents are relatively few in number but that they've occurred in practically every region of the state."

Major Andrew Gibson: "Some kids have even reported that... ah... teachers have said things to them, specifically, about the ah unethical nature of their parent going off to fight."

It gets worse...

"LTC John Mosher: "Soldiers follow our instructions to coordinate with schools to let them know they will be leaving, that their child should be monitored and to keep an eye on 'em."
Consider that for a moment. Most of the children involved are 7 to 9 years of age. These teachers were told what was happening. Their response? Not help, but exploitation of the opportunity to single out and hurt a small child in a vulnerable state.

What kind of person does such a thing?

Imagine what it's like to have your parent away at that age, doing this. "Yes, love, I'm going away for a while... Yes, to fly... No, it isn't safe - I won't lie to you. But I'll be fine, just fine. It's something we have to do. For you. Take care of your brother, and be good, hear? And don't let your Daddy order pizza all the time... OK, then.... I love you... Bye." You're 7 years old; next month, you'll be 8. And there you sit, waiting anxiously for the moment when it's all over and you can see your Mommy again.

Now, imagine this kind of treatment from your Teacher. Or your Principal.


CTD...

Reason has no words, for this is not its child. Morality and decency? Just abstractions in a relativist fog where nothing is real, and no-one ever responsible. No-one, except those within our society whom we are sanctioned by The Cause to hate. For they, and their children, are surely our lawful prey.

Worse still is the weaselly do-nothing attitude of Maine's state officials:


Alan Grover, WABI-TV: "Maine education commissioner Duke Albany says he and the National Guard are discussing the allegations and he will issue an advisory to the state's educators if that's warranted. For now, though, Albany says that such allegations seem very out of character for Maine's dedicated teaching force and that no parents have made any such complaints to the education department.
Responsibility must be a word they don't spell very well in Maine; ditto leadership. He could have said that such treatment, if true, would be unconscionable. That he takes these allegations very seriously, and encourages people to come forward. Above all, that if due process found these allegations to be true, the consequences for those involved would be serious.

He said none of those things, of course. Bureaucrats can be slithy toves at the best of times; why risk real unpleasantness when it can all be swept away with a casual dismissal and some empty symbolism? There, all better now. The children? Oh, they'll get over it.

This. Must. Stop. And I don't just mean in Maine.

Maine isn't the problem, just the latest symptom of a widespread mindset on the Left that they have the right to use public monies and positions of trust to wage war on their political enemies through their enemies' children. We've seen this before. In the NEA's post-9/11 lesson plans. In "peace education" programs during the 1980s. In teacher's background materials put out by a Ontario Teacher's union that de-legitimaize Israel and explain, in November of 2001, "Why America is Hated." It's hardly new. It's hardly noticed.

It's time we noticed.

There's a direct connection between this sort of disrespect for parents and the willingness to use children under one's trust as political tools, and the abuse being reported in Maine. The transition from underhanded indoctrination to direct attacks on children in their charge is but a small additional step, one that mirrors the growing response of the "movement Left" as a whole to events around it. A movement defined by what it hates rather than what it loves must, in the end, begin to act accordingly. In Maine, and elsewhere too.

What to do? In a phrase, we make people pay.

The reason this kind of behaviour continues is simple. It continues because it doesn't carry consequences. Because the people who precipitate these abuses stay in the system, to continue their conduct and then act as enablers for others later in their careers. Because the bureaucrats who abdicate and lie in the face of abuse learn that it's easier than confronting the problem. You want to know why? That's why.

When will it stop? When people get fired for the kind of conduct described here. When proposing one-sided politicization of the classroom as a captive forum for one's views becomes a career-limiting move. When officials who abdicate their responsibility to protect the children in their care from abuse become ex-officials - demoted, fired, or reassigned in the wake of a public outcry. When parents have a choice, and use it to punish schools that fail the test of responsibility. It doesn't need to happen every single time. But it does need to happen.

This is the 21st century. Like minds can connect on wavelengths of light, and the local can become national in a serious hurry. Events like the launch of Campus Watch and national coverage of the SFSU riot are shining the glare of public scrutiny in places that have grown unused to seeing it. It's time they saw more.

Welcome to blood, toil, tears and sweat.

This is hard. It takes time. It doesn't always succeed. Just like all the other necessary and worthwhile things in life. Sometimes decency doesn't come as a given. Sometimes, you have to fight for it - and punish those who think it doesn't apply to them.

You want to push your foreign policy views? Invite and present other viewpoints, or get a show on local cable. You want to tell my daughter that abortion is murder? Buy a radio ad. You say you wanna revolution? Well, you know, we'd all love to see the blog.

Just leave our kids out of it. Or else.

http://windsofchange.net/archives/003102.html

[Drizzt]

Follow-Up: Protecting Soldier's Kids
This is a follow up and backfill to Joe's post. First, I originally saw this article as an item over on the FreeRepublic.com web site. Then I called around and e-mailed and found that there are similar cases happening to military kids in Texas and Kansas as well.

This is what the Maine National Guard sent to the parents of one of the victimized children:


""Thank you for your interest on this most troubling matter. Our Family Assistance Centers have reported cases from Aroostook County to Southern Maine. We are reluctant to give out specific schools and the individuals involved in the interest of giving the education community a chance to address the problem itself. Also, parents wanted the opportunity to pursue the issue through their local school boards first.

In all, we have over thirty complaints that name schools and individual principals, teachers and guidance counselors. If one considers that these complaints come from just the parents who attended our briefings and only from children who told their parents, we are concerned that the problem may be more widespread than we know.

We are recording the complaints, and I will personally visit these educators to express our concern as a professional organization and ask for their cooperation.

Ultimately, our main concern and first responsibility is the safety of our children during these uncertain times. Maine has a core of dedicated and professional educators, but we will challenge any individual who places our children at risk due to their own political ideologies.""


The folks over on the Free Republic are already doing media outreach on this story with the various conservative talk radio outlets and with the Fox News Channel. Myself, I have contracted my various e-mail lists and alerted some fellow bloggers. So this issue is being addressed.

Backing up and taking a wider view, what we are seeing here are the wages of the utopians being counted out.

Thoreau once said something to the effect that "Far better that you be robbed by the basest villain than be helped by someone coming to "do good" for you. For there is no evil the self-righteous will not descend to in order to "do good" by their lights."

The true evil of the Anti-American Left is that they see America as evil and _anything_ they do to oppose it as virtuous. Soldier's kids are not real to them, save as symbols in their utopian fantasy ideology.

I have an acquaintance in the Marin Country California ACLU from one of my e-mail "list of usual suspects" worked up enough about it that he forwarded the Free Republic text to local school boards with a broad outline of the liability implications for the school districts if their teachers are caught doing it.

...... continued here (http://windsofchange.net/archives/003103.html)

here (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/849965/posts) is where the FreeRepublic discussion is taking place

[KMKeller]

Absolutely disgusting!

[Greg L]

Do a widespread survey of all the soldier's kids, compile a list of teachers and the administrators that put up with it and fire the lot of them. Publish the names and addresses in the papers and ask that everyone in the community completely shun them.

Only because this is THR am I not saying what I truely think should be done with these cretins. If I was one of the Guardsmen when I got back I would be hard pressed not to have a little face to face talk (or other action) with these slimes.

:fire: :cuss: :fire:

Greg

[Tall Man]

I said it before whilst TFL was active, and I'll say it again here:

It's because of shenanigans like this that my children will never attend public schools.

Tall Man

Go private. Go well.

[Delmar]

I have a son reporting for basic training in August, and I will NOT tolerate this kind of behavior from people who ought to know better.
I had a talk with one of the teachers last year who was preaching anti-gun nonsense to the class-made it very clear that he was NEVER to foist his opinions onto my son in any way, shape or form or his professional career would be at a quick end.

I think the first stop for the parents of these kids should be at the school board. I won't send my children to a private school because we already pay for public schooling as it is, and unless or until they give vouchers, they will either teach the truth or I will hound them until they give up.

[longeyes]

If as reported this is about as vile as it gets. I think it should make all of us wake up about the cultural war that's been going on for the last forty years and where we stand. America-haters have entrenched themselves in the mind-forming seats of power. Lose your next generation and you've lost your country. Frankly, I believe this will all end very badly unless we start taking what's going on here very seriously and speak out aggressively.

[foghornl]

Give the school principal ONE DAY to fix that mess, then start printing names addresses, phone numbers and pictures of those MISERABLE TRAITORS.

After all the trouble I had in publik skool, any skool official from the janitor/custodian up to Skool Bored President that messes up in any way is NEVER forgiven or forgotten.

And yes, I have had a hand in at least a couple of them losing their jobs over the last 25 years.

[critter]

It matters not to me a whole lot what their opinion of the mission (possibly coming war) happens to be. They can even express that opinion (in appropriate places-school is NOT! one of those places), BUT those who are indeed harassing the kids of military personnel should be FIRED before THAT class is over and by nightfall should be on a plane to be airdropped into Baghdad!-parachute optional.

[Blackhawk]

:barf: :cuss: :banghead: :barf: regarding the reports.

Delmar, WELL DONE! Parental involvement in your children's education is a sacred obligation.

[NewShooter78]

That's totally discusting. I wish that I was a parent in that situation because I would be raising hell in the principals office, the superintendants office, and the school board. Children should not be the pawn of political hate speach, or any political speach for that matter.

[Patch]

First, let me say that I beleive what is taking place is completely wrong and very inappropriate and each person should be held accountable. I do however also beleive that it is appropriate and even needed for discussions of this sort to occur in our schools, but in a 3rd person sense. In other words. I beleive the children need to understand that there are more voices in our Country than those who egerly support and advocate for war. And because of this, kids need to know that "they (the kids) are not the bad guys" simply because others advocate against the war.

Conflicts, such as our Country is currently experiencing, do not occur every day and because of this...it brings about learning opportunities for everyone on all levels and should be utilized (appropriately) as a learning tool that can help build stronger and healthier social values and systems that benefit everyone.

Like it or not....the fact remains that historically, our political leaders have a overt habit of wanting to be the "world police", believing that we have the absolute right to impose our social, judicial, political and moral/vaule systems upon others and if they do not accept it, then we find some reason to condem them and take military action...even if only by a presence. I resent this and I am not any less "American" because I resent it. We have so many problems existing in our own Country that we frequently forget about and never bother to correct. To me its rather hypocritical for us to claim we have the "right" to be the "world police", when our politicial leaders commonly and customarily forsake their own people. We create "terrorist" and then get mad when they turn on us...to me, its a bit annal to beleive that we are so powerful and all important that those our country has supplied weapons to....to do our bidding for us....will not also turn on us and bite the hand that has fed them. Maybe if the "American People" spent more time holding our own political leaders accountable when they do something that is wrong, we would not be in the sociail/judicial/political/moral/vaule system problems that we face each and every day.....

People use formats like these to complain, gripe and moan... but...when was the last time you stood firmly to actively help a stranger who was being wronged? When was the last time you went to a City Council meeting to voice your concerns about conduct your City Officials are doing that has or is hurting another person (a complete stranger to you)? We tend to assume the belief that the "Courts" will correct the problems...why in the heck should a victim be forced to use the Courts when the people "collectively" can make a more powerful and quicker presence by applying "public opinion" pressure on our political leaders? Yet, we all too often accept the belief that we hold no responsibility to do anything to help others, leastwise we are somehow directly involved and stand to loose as much.

Not too long ago, I began hearing stories from the citizens of the town I live in...stories about police misconduct, abuse and so forth. The citizens appeared to me to be looking for some viable pathway to change things for the better....so I decided to get involved and try to help. I began advocating for a civilian over- sight board to regulate police practices, policies and procedures and to ensure that the "people" had some form of equality in justice by having equal representation. Small town corruption is far different than what exists in larger cities. In the end, I found that none of the citizens who "complained" to me, bothered to take any kind of stand with me....they were ok with the fight being waged, as long as someone else took all the risks.... in a short time, a lawsuit will be filed against the City as a result of the abundant amount of retaliation various City Officials imposed upon me for my avocations.....and despite my caring about the "people" to take risks to help my fellow man.....I now stand alone.

So, the next time you want to post a thread to complain about some injustice....try asking yourself first...when was the last time you took personal risks to help someone in need? When was the last time you tried to visibly and actively make a true difference in an appropriate way. It's easy to sit in our homes, the safety of our homes and write a thread that complains and complains and complains. It is a format that never truly identifies who we are, where we live or work, so we are not really taking any risk in expressing our words. I am not saying that outlets such as this are not important or do not hold a value, because they do and are important. All I am saying is that if this is the only means that you will express your voice, your beliefs...yet, never really take any personal risk in trying to make things better for a complete stranger to you.....then all you will ever be left with is a faceless voice that never really makes a positive impact and in this, you cheat yourself and others from your care.

[wingman]

Public schools::cuss:

[Quartus]

Firing is too good for them. ALL of them, including administrators that try to protect them. Any union bosses, too.


Fire them and ban them for life.

[Blackhawk]

Brit Hume mentioned it on Fox News. The story's getting legs...! :fire:

[Silver Bullet]

This is the worst. It reinforces every bad thing I've posted about the teachers' union. By comparison, it absolutely trivializes all the stupid things the Hollywood entertainers spout.

The best thing I can think of to do is to let other Americans know what's going on. I'm going to copy the story and start emailing it to everybody I know. If you have a better plan, follow it and let us know what you're doing. If not, you might want to adopt mine.

[Shalako]

This exempliefies the fact that the liberals are the lowest of the low. No class. No morals. No integrity. No grit. No conscience. It just doesn't get any lower.......:fire:

As to this:
to me, its a bit annal to beleive that we are so powerful and all important that those our country has supplied weapons to....to do our bidding for us....will not also turn on us and bite the hand that has fed them.

If one of my beloved dogs, that I trained and take full responsibility for, bit me or anyone else, I would take full responsibility and shoot that dog. Why should I expect a lower standard from the government?

[Standing Wolf]

Lower than low.

[Waitone]

Someone please post names and email addresses.

I remember when my dad shipped out for Swift Strike. Didn't know the difference between war and war games. Scared me. So now we have predator teachers engaging in philosophical combat with children (under their care) who can not defend themselves. Is there any limit to how low these people are willing to stoop?

Predators must be held accountable.

[Country Boy]

I teach high school mathematics, and I am simply disgusted. I would be looking out for these students, not criticizing their parents. Those kids are going through an emotionally tough time, and they do not need somebody in a position of power telling them that their parent is doing the wrong thing and being unethical!

Not all teachers are idiots like this one.

[Patch]

I believe you have missed my point...I am not saying that taking action against those who turn on us is wrong...only that we should not be surprised when it happens....moreover, maybe we should be a little more careful in recruiting others to do our bidding for us.....and stop supplying them with the means to be more pains in our butts later on....it is not about being "liberal" or "conservative"...it's simply about having commonsense and understanding that when you put others in a position to do your bidding for you....they in turn also have the ability to turn on you as well.

[Don Gwinn]

Patch, with no disrespect intended to you, I must ask: are you a teacher? Have you studied pedagogy? Are you a parent?

There is absolutely no excuse for even bringing this topic up in class with a bunch of children in that age group. None. 7-9 year-olds would be between 2nd and 4th grade. Tempting though it might be, to anyone on any side of the debate, a third-grade classroom is not the place. That's not our job.

Would not have happened in my classroom. I apologize on behalf of my leftist colleagues, because if I know the type, they won't apologize for themselves. They're probably emailing each other right now about how unfair it is that the right-wing extremists are picking on them just for doing what they think is right.
And no, they probably see absolutely no irony in that complaint.

[twoblink]

www.fire-these-pinko-commie-teachers.com available??:fire: :fire: :fire: :cuss:

[Redlg155]

If you want to harass my children then you are going to have to enter my home to do so. In that case I will give you an interesting lesson in manners.

One of the benefits of Home Schooling.

Good Shooting
RED

[PATH]

This is a sorry day for our educational system and a sorrier day for the nation. Teachers who engage in this behavior should be censured or fired. You just can't make stuff like this up!

[jmbg29]

The public school system needs to be dismantled.

Enough, is enough!:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

Commie Maggots!:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

I think your second-handers understand this, try as they might not to admit it to themselves. Notice how they'll accept anything except a man who stands alone. They recognize him at once. By instinct. There's a special, insidious kind of hatred for him. They forgive criminals. They admire dictators. Crime and violence are a tie. A form of mutual dependence. They need ties. They've got to force their miserable little personalities on every single person they meet. The independent man kills them--because they don't exist within him and that's the only form of existence they know. Notice the malignant kind of resentment against any idea that propounds independence. Notice the malice toward an independent man. Look back at your own life, Howard, and at the people you've met. They know. They're afraid. You're a reproach.Ayn Rand "The Fountainhead"

[UnknownSailor]

I think this makes it obvious we need, no, must eradicate the educational bias currently present in our places of higher education.

Do these liberals have any shame?

[4570Rick]

If there was ever a case for public humiliation, this is it.:fire:

We should bring back stocks, and these miscreants should be the first to reintroduce this great form of punishment.:mad:

[DadOfThree]

My kids would never step foot on those school grounds again. I would not rest until the teachers involved were fired or the school board members who refused to fire them were booted from the school board. :fire: :fire: :fire: :fire:
I would like to see these yellow slimebag weasels address the National Guard members directly instead of going after 7 - 9 yr olds. :fire: :fire: :fire: I am so disgusted I can't even begin to say what I think of these pinheads without getting banned from THR.

[Leadbutt]

I remember in the late 50's, when the ole man was going off to Vietnam for the first time I had a teacher acting as the head master at the school stand me up in front of the class and began to explain how it was people like me and my father who were to blame for the evil in the world, When I got home I told my Uncle John{WW-2/Korea vet} what had transpired, next day he showed up at lunch, confronted the teacher and then proceeded to whip his *** in front of the whole lunch room.
Funny not another teacher had any thing to say about it or to me the rest of the year

[0007]

It seems to me that the correct way for these parents to express their displeasure with the teachers, the principal, the school board, and the rest of their sycophants involved with this outrage would be to find a lawyer and whisper the words "class action"... Their children have obviously suffered possibly ir-reversable psychological damage to their persons due to these unconscionable actions. Plus the damage to their parents. Sue them personally. That way they pay, not the taxpayers. :cuss:

[Delmar]

While there might be some satisfaction to be gained by a lawsuit, I think these clowns should slip on a bar of soap or run into a door way-repeatedly, is what they absolutely deserve!

[Ed Brunner]

There is no place for the discussion of ethics or politics with a seven year old child whose entire world is personally involved in this.
Anyone who would attempt to force his personal political opinions on a child so personally involved must never be allowed to professionally educate anyone.
And to do this on the name of the government that sponsors this military involvement just might be treason.
As a veteran I can relate. I left my family and relied on others for their safety while I was in the military. We are the ones who must support our troops and protect their families while they are gone. This is a matter of trust and responsibility and it is up to responsible people to see that it is stopped and never tolerated again.
Lets start at the top and write our Commander-in-Chief and let him handle it. Don't tell me he has more important things to do.

[Waitone]

Who are these people?

Whose email address would be nice to have?

Actual teachers--not likely
School admiinistrators--possible
Schoold district bureaucrats--likely
School board members--easy enough

These people need to be addressed.

Unacceptable. Completely unacceptable.

[Leatherneck]

My Son-in-law, father to Grandsons #1 and #3 just left for a year's duty in Korea. While presumably such military duty is not being viewed by the lefties in quite the same way as duty in SWA/PG, there is one thing I'm certain of. If Alec or Brendan ever came home with tales of a teacher stigmatising them, an assault team of their Mom and their Granddad would make life living hell for the teacher(s) and administrators involved. The audacity is breathtaking! :fire:

TC
TFL Survivor

[Waitone]

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030227-8550156.htm


Children of Maine Guard unit taunted by teachers


Members of the Maine National Guard, called up to prepare for an attack on Iraq, have asserted that their children are being harassed at school by teachers who oppose the war.

Guard members say their children are "coming home upset, depressed, crying," said Maj. Peter Rogers, a spokesman for the Maine National Guard. "This was based on some incidents that were happening in school, both in the classroom and on the playground."
In an e-mail sent to the parents of one child who had complained of harassment at school, National Guard officials said they had "over 30 complaints that name schools and individual principals, teachers and guidance counselors."
It was still not clear yesterday whether the state will discipline any of the named teachers or schools over the incidents.
"In Maine, local superintendents make local policy for local schools," said Tammy Morrill, assistant to J. Duke Albanese, state commissioner of education.
A "fact-gathering" process about the incidents is under way, Maj. Rogers said. The incidents involved students in elementary and middle schools, some as young as 7 years old, he said.
"What we're hearing is that some of the educators are talking about the possible war in Iraq being unethical and that those who would fight it are unethical," Maj. Rogers said.
The state commissioner of education has urged school officials to be more "sensitive" to military children.
"Recently it has been brought to our attention that some school personnel ... may have been less than sensitive to children of military families regarding our continued strained relations with Iraq," Mr. Albanese wrote in a letter sent Tuesday to all superintendents and principals in Maine.
"In some cases, parents — who are about to be deployed — have observed added stress and anxiety among their children who perceive a staff member or their peers as being insensitive to their beliefs and the potential danger to loved ones," Mr. Albanese wrote.
The commissioner said that, while supporting "the right to discuss controversial issues," he wanted "to remind school personnel ... that the families of military personnel need our sensitivity."
Complaints about harassment in schools first surfaced, Maj. Rogers said, after two of Maine's Army National Guard units were mobilized recently for deployment to the Middle East.
"About a week ago, we started doing our family-assistance-center briefings," Maj. Rogers said, explaining that the centers provide support for the families of Guard troops on active duty. "In these briefings, a number of families came forward and talked about their children coming home upset, depressed, crying."
Maj. Rogers said the state commissioner's office "has been very supportive" of the military families in responding to the complaints. "We're hoping [Mr. Albanese's letter to school officials] will end the issue," Maj. Rogers said. "We're not looking at pointing fingers or anything."
Mr. Albanese told the Bangor Daily News that only one complaint involved classroom remarks, after the child of a Guard member became upset during a discussion of Iraq when a teaching assistant "took up the anti-war" argument.
Other incidents, according to Mr. Albanese, involved a child who had requested to leave school early for a military-related activity and a student who was teased on a school bus because he has a parent in the military.
Teachers across the country have tried to find proper ways to teach children about the war on terrorism. Last year, the National Education Association was criticized for posting a link to an online lesson plan for the September 11 anniversary recommending that teachers discuss "historical instances of American intolerance" so that America could avoid "repeating terrible mistakes."
The incidents involving the children of National Guard members in Maine were "a surprise to us," Maj. Rogers said. "We are certainly hoping that none of it was done maliciously. ... We certainly value the freedom of speech and fight for it, but we hope that people would be sensitive to the kids."

-----------------------

Major Rogers email address is Peter.Rogers@me.ngb.army.mil

Edit note: I just emailed major Rogers this thread.

[Silver Bullet]

I followed my humble plan, and it only took about ten minutes. If a thousand High Roaders copy the news story and send it to ten people, 10,000 people are made aware. If half of those 10,000 send to 10 people, 50,000 people know. If half of thoser recipients send to ten people, the number grows by five each generation: 250,000 to 1,250,000 to 6,250,000 to 31,250,000, until the story loses interest and people no longer care enough to forward it. And, of course, 1000 High Roaders are not going to forward it because not that many people have viewed this thread.

This is a very hot emotional issue, and I think at least half of the people who become aware of it will become as angry and outraged as I am, there will be enough outcry that this will become a national issue, and maybe even something will get done in Maine.

I realize that sending out a few emails doesn't sound like doing much, but 1) there's a chance that my above scenario will play out, and 2) it's better than doing nothing.

[Patch]

To: Don Gwinn:

No disrepect taken....we are all entitled to our opinions. I do not beleive that kids are incapable of understanding, sometimes they understand far more than adults given them credit for. And I do believe that kids need to be reassured that neither they nor their parents are the bad guys in all of this, but that our society has many different points of view on the subject. I am not saying that they need to be given a complete World History lesson at that age, but to the extent that is appropriate and that they can understand. I do not see it being inappropriate for a teacher to help them understand (from an objective way of teaching) that there are people who stand on both sides of the issue.

Again and for clarity, I agreee 100% that what those teachers are doing is absolutely 100% out of line and they must be held accountable. No, I am not a grade school teacher...does that mean I am not entitled to express my opinion? Or is it that I am only allowed to express an opinion that conforms to the popular beliefs and popular speech that is defined by what others have to say in their threads? Yes, I have studdied Child psychology, which included ped's and I even have a college education as well. I have also studdied constitutional law for the past 14 years in the course of my requied employment duties. So I am not some dumb hillbilly who just came in off the swamp. All I am saying is that if we are to permit teachers to share their opinions that "praise" the parents of these kids...then we should also permit speech that is given appropriately and in an objective manner to educate the kids to the fact that there are many different voices in our society and they need to understand that they (kids and parents) are not the bad guys just because someone voices their opinions that are not "pro-war".

In our society of today I frequently hear people demanding their rights...but rarely do I hear people also acknowledge the fact that the other guy also has rights as well..rights that may very well supercede our own. We are quick to say that our opinion is all that matters and if someone does not agree with us...we lash out at them and criticize them because they actually have the nerve to share an opinion that is different from our own. In our socieital selfishness, we forget that the world does not revolve around a particular group of people or even a person unto themselves, yet, rather the world revolves around diversity. And sometimes we have to accept that having an opinion does not mean we are right or wrong...its just the way we see things and someone will always see it differently....

[XLMiguel]

Kids that age are old enough to know what war is, and that wars are caused by political conflicts, i.e. differences of opinion on how the world should be run. Wars are not good, but they are sometimes necessary to prevent bad things from happening or continuing. But that's about as far as it needs to go.

BUT, for some moron (I can't call them "teacher") to abuse a kid because his/her parent is off to do thier duty is beyond reprehensible. Do they have a clue? The reason they even have the ability to voice thier opinion is because of the sacrifices those brave people make.

Those gutless wonders first of all need a good@$$-kicking to get their attention (I bet 2 P.O.ed BAMs could bitch-slap the whole state), and then they need to be directed to a new line of work, i.e. cleaning latrines at the local VA hospital,until their cranial rectitus is cured.:fire:

[foghornl]

I am more and more in favor of "Tar & Feathers" at High Noon in Public Square for those clowns (nicest term I can find) involved. I am still boiling over about this story.

I remember a shouting match with my 5th grade [ahem] teacher. Made some off-the-wall comment about WW2 and Korea, very surprising since her husband was a Nat'l Guard Major, commander of the local NG armory/post. She got very upset when I made reference to the fact that my Dad was a WW2 Army Infantryman, Silver Star recipient, who made it possible for her to spout such Leninist/Stalinist/Castro-ite propoganda. And the suggestion that she haul her miserable carcass to Panmunjom, NK. (this was only a year or 2 after the Cuban Missle Crisis).
I also suggested that I would write the local newspaper editor with her comments.


Oh, well, I got pounded, but there were no more comments like that from her.

[Country Boy]

An elementary classroom is not the place to carry on a debate about the morality of war. Perhaps in a high school government class there would be some validity in having a debate on if war is a necessary option in dealing with Iraq. Even then, a well balanced lesson/discussion would not be only anti-military. I have no idea where the morality of a possible military action in Iraq would fit into the curriculum of a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th grade classroom.

Along with Don, I apologize for those educators who disregard teaching rational thought and balanced discussion with spewing propaganda.

[XLMiguel]

Country & Don G-
No need to apologize, those 'people' are hardly your contemporaries or colleagues, their lack of professionalism speaks volumes by itself. They have betrayed their professional responsibilites, that is, teaching thier students to THINK, by instead pro-offering propaganda rather than structure and intellectual discipline. A pox on them.

[Dannyboy]

O'Reilly's doing a piece on this tonight. Should be pretty good. I only hope he got someone from the ME education system to come on the show.

[twoblink]

jmbg29,

JUST WHERE DO YOU GET OFF INSULTING THE MAGGOTS?? WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO YOU?? ;)

Don Gwinn..Country Boy...

I use to have a high school teacher that would talk to me after school, as she felt that I was one of the few people she could talk to (was a well known libertarian on campus already! Imagine that!!)

But she says the "Teacher's Union" muscle basically made her a permanent "closet Republican". Her views didn't match that of the union, and she was warned a few times of "serious consequences" if she didn't keep her mouth shut..

So it's not just "leftist teachers" as you called them, it's "leftist teachers with the support of lefist unions".

I just wanted to add that, because I find that to be very significant. (Yes, the same unions that take dues out of teacher's paycheck and give it to the democrats despite the fact that some of the teachers don't want their money going there...)

I had a teacher, ousted by the union. Oh, never so public, but he was one of the best teachers in the entire school, hands down. But he "suddenly" disappeared. I saw him a few years later, and wanted to clarify it. His only comment was, "Teacher's union, they have muscle..." :cuss: :fire:

[TexasVet]

quote:
__________________________________________

All I am saying is that if we are to permit teachers to share their opinions that "praise" the parents of these kids...then we should also permit speech that is given appropriately and in an objective manner to educate the kids to the fact that there are many different voices in our society and they need to understand that they (kids and parents) are not the bad guys just because someone voices their opinions that are not "pro-war".
__________________________________________

Teachers have NO right to share their 'opinions" to children on public time, period. On ANY subject. They are hired servants who are there to teach the subject of the hour. Their opinions should never be fosted on the impressionable young who take most of what a teacher says as fact, just because a teacher says it. If anyone fails to understand the damage that one authority figure can do to a child (especially when reinforced by classmates who have "learned" the lesson) is too morally challenged to debate the issue with.
And like a maid who breaks glassware, a teacher who steals time for the elucidation of his own opinions should be fired as soon as the event occurs.
Opinions are fine in a college philosophy class, never in a grade school, where learning is supposed to be taking place. Especially when it is done for the sole purpose of damaging the children who have been placed in that teacher's care to make a PERSONAL POLITICAL statement.

[Silver Bullet]

Now it's on Fox News on the net:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,79857,00.html

[pax]

Teachers have NO right to share their 'opinions" to children on public time, period. On ANY subject.
TexasVet,

Do you suppose a teacher during the civil rights decade could have taught a classroom full of black kids with no reference to the events the kids saw on the news every night?

pax

A child who is protected from all controversial ideas is as vulnerable as a child who is protected from every germ. The infection, when it comes -- and it will come -- may overwhelm the system, be it the immune system or the belief system. -- Jane Smiley

[Silver Bullet]

And, on CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/02/28/teachers.iraq.ap/index.html

[jmbg29]

Baldacci said he's "disappointed" by the actions of some educators in public school systems.Cheap thrill governor. You aren't willing to do anything about though, are you you spineless maggot?

[wingman]

In the past 30+ years working parents have turned there children over to daycare, public schools to raise them,
I believe it is the reason for a large
percentage of problems we now face.

Public school now believe it is there
responsibility to "teach" our children
in all aspects of life, sex, politics and
yes even religion if it is the PC religion
at the time.

If we are to change the future of this
country public schools must be changed
or better yet elimiated.:mad:

[spacemanspiff]

i wonder just how many of these "teachers" have been spreading their patriotic opinions ever since 9/11, praising the USA and its heroes, while despising those same heroes that work to prevent something bad like 9/11 from happening again.

[Silver Bullet]

Yahoo is covering the story, and has a message board. The comments are just as infuriating as the story, though:

http://post.news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=NEWS&action=l&ft=1&board=37138445&sid=37138445&title=Teachers%20Union%20Passes%20Iraq%20Resolution%0A&tid=apteachersiraq&date=01-24-2003&url=story.news.yahoo.com%2Fnews%3Ftmpl%3Dstory%26u%3D%2Fap%2F20030124%2Fap_on_re_us%2Fteachers_iraq_1&.sig=D5H5AU11KvmcIQj4wx.Erg--


Bring your :barf: bag.

[Apple a Day]

I'm a high school teacher. Hold your fire until you hear me out.
Texasvet ,
you said Teachers have NO right to share their 'opinions" to children on public time, period. On ANY subject.
I get asked about my opinion on a variety of subjects by my students all the time. They respect my opinions even when they don't agree. They also respect the fact that I am willing to hear their side of the debate and challenge them to think about what they are saying. A good teacher, I believe, will do exactly that;which has everything to do about teaching the kids not only reading, writing, and arithmetic but also about THINKING. At the beginning of the year I raise a lot of eyebrows by telling my kids that I will spend the entire year lying to them... by omission, by my own ignorance on topics, by my own bias,intentional or not. It is their job to understand enough about the subject, to learn enough in the course of the year to challenge what I am saying. That's just my style, though.
Just the other day I had a kid who was furiously against invading Irag ask me my opinion. I told him. We agreed to disagree and he sat down with a thoughtful look. I'm not sure if I had an influence on him but he sat down and thought about it at least for a minute.
I am a high school teacher, though, not an elementary school teacher. Blasting kids or harassing them for their parents' jobs is lower than a worm's belly. I hate the union, haven't been a member since very early in my career. The " teachers" mentioned in the article should get canned IMO. They make us all look bad.

[spacemanspiff]

it should be obvious that high school students should be thinking more for themselves and developing their own thought processes. lets use a simple analagy:

would you like it if your kids came home crying because their teacher told them that because mommy and daddy are divorced from each other they will burn in hell? thats just an opinion as well, right? is it appropiate? does the child understand anything about the teachers 'morals'? probably not.

these teachers shouldnt just be canned. they should be shipped off to iraq to be human shields.

[moparguy]

Those teachers should be removed from teacher, and be barred from teaching IMO. This is inexcusable. If one of my teachers were to say that to me now, I'd probably go nuts on em.

the school I am at currently is a liberal arts college, but also offers an automotive restoration degree( which is why im here in kansas for the next couple months) they CONSTANTLY have new signs up saying WAR IS TERRORISM and other BS like that. Everytime I see one, doesnt matter if they are standing right there, i tear it down. They are calling soldiers terrorists, and I for one will not stand for it.

I regret coming to a college that the majority of it concentrates on liberal arts....bunch of hippies....

[TexasVet]

Cool, no problem with that. Your students are old enough to think for themselves and if they respect your opinion, great. But we were discussing very young children who still take what teachers say as gospel. Shame on them.

[seeker_two]

Send in the Marines...:evil:

[Travis McGee]

Horsewhips. Tar. Feather. Rope.

[jmbg29]

Patch wroteNot too long ago, I began hearing stories from the citizens of the town I live in...stories about police misconduct, abuse and so forth. The citizens appeared to me to be looking for some viable pathway to change things for the better....so I decided to get involved and try to help. I began advocating for a civilian over- sight board to regulate police practices, policies and procedures and to ensure that the "people" had some form of equality in justice by having equal representation. Small town corruption is far different than what exists in larger cities. In the end, I found that none of the citizens who "complained" to me, bothered to take any kind of stand with me....they were ok with the fight being waged, as long as someone else took all the risks.... in a short time, a lawsuit will be filed against the City as a result of the abundant amount of retaliation various City Officials imposed upon me for my avocations.....and despite my caring about the "people" to take risks to help my fellow man.....I now stand alone.Did it occur to you that these "citizens" may have been lying?

[4570Rick]

Whether or not the teacher’s, councilor’s, or other school official’s opinions are valid has no bearing on the subject. These are little children whose worlds are being turned upside-down. To further damage a child’s psyche through intent, or through ignorance is inexcusable. To vocally disagree with the plans to go to Iraq is our right. But nobody has the right to tell a child that has a parent going to war to defend the rights of every American that his or her parent is a bad person. This could cause irreparable damage to the child’s relationship with that parent or worse. :fire:

Those who perpetrate these acts against innocent children are EVIL and should be prosecuted. Those who act out of ignorance in violating the child’s trust should, at the very least, be bared from teaching ever again. In fact, these sycophants should not be allowed near children in any endeavor, ever. :cuss: :cuss:

[Quartus]

There is a VAST differnce between expressing a personal opinion on an issue and taunting children because of what their parents do!


There is no issue of free speech here! None! Zero! Zip! Zilch!

It doesn't even have anything to do with the age of the children! High school or kindergarten is irrelevant!



Do these liberals have any shame?


NO! STOP EXPECTING THEM TO!


The sooner you understand your enemy the sooner you can deal effectively with him. Stop expecting honesty, fairness, decency, or any other good thing from the liberals! That's the problem the Repubs have! They keep trying to play nice with these vermin!

Stop it!

:banghead:

[jmbg29]

Stop it!Amen brother!

[Mastrogiacomo]

Disgusting!!:cuss: :fire: You'd think people would respect our service men and women and sympathize with the children yearning to be with their parents again. They make the ultimate sacrifice for their country only to have their children harrassed by people that should know better. They ought to be ashamed of themselves taking out their opinions on children. Doesn't say much for them.:mad:

[Drjones]

I'll probably get flamed for this, but I don't care.


Those pathetic excuses for human beings aren't worth the bullets that should be used on them.

[clem]

The Maine Education Commissioner is;

J.Duke Albanese and his e-mail is:

duke.albanese@maine.gov

and his letter of concern to the teachers is at;

http://www.state.me.us/education/edletrs/2003/ilet/ilet45.htm

what a crock of sh-t!

I dropped him a short, to the point message.

[Silver Bullet]

Does anybody know if the teachers are still doing this ?

[Stauffenberg]

That's sickening. Literally. My stomach is literally queasy right now.

Can we all just leave the soldiers and their families alone? I don't like the damn war either. Nobody likes a war. And I can't say I'm a huge fan of Mr. Bush. But when the call comes, you go. Period. And for doing that, you've got my respect.